Off Topic Thread 4.0

stephen_n · 19-04-2020 11:42AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I can see this crisis a being a focal point in the future against populism and the "cult of personality" type leadership.

It will be very easy for the boring, pragmatic politician of the future to point to trump and bojos mishandling of this crisis and say, that's what you get when you elect politicians based on populism.

Their absence of leadership and 'blame others' reactions are so telling

Problem is their base still buy the same old stories. Both in the UK and America they are regurgitating the same talking points. It’s all somebody else’s fault, our guy is doing his best and we should support him. If anything views are becoming more polarized as this goes on.

Panda Killa · 19-04-2020 11:45AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought the new one was better. I watched the old one about 5 years ago and didn't really see what the fuss was all about.

You're dead to me!

vienne86 · 19-04-2020 11:52AM

jacothelad wrote: »

The Tories set themselves up with a raft of scapegoats right at the outset of their inaction. 'We are following the science,' they say. No doubt they planned it well if things went belly up they had people to blame....and blame they will. They are a vindictive bunch of fools. It should also be noted that the science they choose to follow was far from Unanimous. They choose to follow the particular science that meant they had to do nothing...mainly because they are unable to understand or give two fecks about it. One leading epidemiologist stated that when he heard their 'herd immunity plan' he seriously thought it was satire.

Public Health England - which seems to be run by Dumb an Dumber - have shamefully asked front line staff to re-use protective gear thus callously opening up these heroes to even more danger. Remember, these clowns were approached by the Government's own Animal Testing Agency that informed them BACK IN JANUARY -that they could do 40,000 Covid 19 test per week. PHE basically gave them the middle finger.

A number of companies in the private sector approached PHE to tell them they could produce huge quanrtities of PPE,,,,,,again -basically told to go fu*k themselves while the government sent almost 300,000 items of PPE to China.THe NHS is almost out of PPE. No doubt we will see Matt Handjob appearing on t.v. spouting his usual lies and fantasies. It seems he is despised and held in contempt by his officials. Reportedly only Dominic Raab is even more reviled. This is hard to believe when sniggering fool, Priti 'merdeforbrains' Patel and Alok 'Wind and Urine' Sharma are also 'Ministers' .They are ministers in the same way that I am the Principal Dancer in the Royal Ballet.

QuasiBoJo is a vacuous fantasist who doesn't have a days work in him. He is a congenital liar and egomaniac with the political talent of a burst boil...I despise him and his coterie of crooks.

The fallback position of these incompetent, grasping Tory feckwits when challenged is bluster, slogans, wild promises, lies and evasion.

Great post, Jaco. In it, I think you have managed to actually say all the things that many of us are thinking.

19-04-2020 11:52AM

Panda Killa wrote: »

You're dead to me!

It's reputation preceded itself. I was expecting a lot but it's decent enough, just not at the same level of, say, The Matrix in terms of sci-fi. It's strongest point is the visuals which still hold up today.

sydthebeat · 19-04-2020 11:58AM

stephen_n wrote: »

Problem is their base still buy the same old stories. Both in the UK and America they are regurgitating the same talking points. It’s all somebody else’s fault, our guy is doing his best and we should support him. If anything views are becoming more polarized as this goes on.

That's why the middle ground holds the key.

I'm America the dems who didn't like hillary didn't vote. The reps who didn't like trump still voted for him to stop the dems getting.

In the UK the middle were basically sick of brexit and wanted to move forward.

prawnsambo · 19-04-2020 12:19PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Problem is their base still buy the same old stories. Both in the UK and America they are regurgitating the same talking points. It’s all somebody else’s fault, our guy is doing his best and we should support him. If anything views are becoming more polarized as this goes on.

The (normally sycophantic) press turning on Johnson is a bit of a game changer though. There will still be the usual cheerleaders trying to polish the turd, but they are in the minority. The scale of the crisis in the UK is hard to ignore.

dregin · 19-04-2020 04:39PM

jacothelad wrote: »

When we were downsizing in 2016 we made a list of things we didn't want. We lived in a 5,000 sq ft 3 story Victorian villa with big grounds. We wanted a modern single story house with a small garden. WE bought a 3,000 sq ft two story house with two huge gardens with lawns thw size of football fields. I woulds happily concrete the lot. I really don't want to spend my declining years digging, weeding, cutting, dumping stuff, trailing the bride around garden centres and buying f'kin pergolas and bedding plants etc.

There was a large fruit tree garden and a huge vegetable patch. Now happily covered in 608 flagstones...:D:D:D Mrs Jacko wasn't happy...:p

A mate has an autonymous lawnmower taking care of nearly an acre of lawn. Charges itself in a little dock, comes out and does the cutting whenever it feels it needs to and does it often enough that the amount it's cutting is so minescule that it doesn't need to collect it in a bag and it just rots below the spot it was cut. Class craic altogether.

https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/house-garden/gardening/best-robot-lawnmower-large-area-small-garden-hills-robotic-a8971751.html

Neil3030 · 19-04-2020 04:42PM

Never ever cut back on public education, and think you can just import smart people to compensate.

America doesn't even try to hide that this is their model. UK were a little more cloak and dagger, arriving there after decades of Tory cutbacks, slashing pay and overloading teachers with standardized assessments and the like.

Your Fortune 500s can always import the specialists they need, but political stability will always be precarious, thanks to a population that is disproportionately useless, mentally inflexible and only responsive to emotional impulse.

19-04-2020 05:42PM

Amazing that we are just beyond a week since there was a campaign to go outside and clap for Johnson.

It shouldn't be a surprise that he failed entirely to show up for the crisis, but the fact that from the outset he has also robbed it of seriousness should be a massive warning sign for brexit supporters if they were ever to stop and pay attention for five minutes.

They've run out of Ministers to stand up and be embarrassed, Patel, Raab, Hancock and now Gove have all crumbled under the most basic of questioning and in a further embarrassment they now have ministers responding in an official governmental capacity to news articles which they don't like. Completely unacceptable joke shop during a genuine, real crisis. All of these people's political careers should be over but I've little faith this will transpire.

Much like in America, the UK Government is focusing on managing the 24 hour news cycle and not the extent of this crisis.

Bazzo · 19-04-2020 05:45PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

That's why the middle ground holds the key.

I'm America the dems who didn't like hillary didn't vote. The reps who didn't like trump still voted for him to stop the dems getting.

In the UK the middle were basically sick of brexit and wanted to move forward.

Sadly you are probably correct. Like a diabetic requesting an elective foot amputation because they're sick of being told they might lose it if they don't get their diabetes under control.

sydthebeat · 19-04-2020 05:52PM

Bazzo wrote: »

Sadly you are probably correct. Like a diabetic requesting an elective foot amputation because they're sick of being told they might lose it if they don't get their diabetes under control.

and if i may bring it even more contemporary and into pop culture... like Saff in tiger king where he opted to amputate his arm instead of going through a 2-year process of reconstructive surgery. He was back at work seven days after the tiger bit his arm off and five days after his arm was amputated.

There is something in the human condition which say Fcuk this, lets get going again asap.

Hopefully the american public will look upon trump not as the tiger, or the reconstructive surgery... but the gangrene that that rots what it touches

Neil3030 · 19-04-2020 07:05PM

Pretty sure most sensible Americans are just watching their governors press conferences at this point.

stephen_n · 19-04-2020 07:07PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

The (normally sycophantic) press turning on Johnson is a bit of a game changer though. There will still be the usual cheerleaders trying to polish the turd, but they are in the minority. The scale of the crisis in the UK is hard to ignore.

Times is a Murdoch paper, most of BoBo’s backing was from the Barclay Brothers. This could be the beginning of a little Tory in fighting.

Clegg · 19-04-2020 07:23PM

From my pov, The Times has always been slightly more willing to criticise the Tories. Still a predominantly Conservative leaning publication though.

The Telegraph is a complete ****rag however. Doesn't bother to hide it's bias and naked cheerleading. If they were to ever turn on Boris you'd know he's really in trouble power wise.

Clegg · 19-04-2020 07:25PM

Anyone watching the concert from home on RTE 2? Even in his 70's Elton John is still such a great performer.

Neil3030 · 19-04-2020 07:26PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Times is a Murdoch paper, most of BoBo’s backing was from the Barclay Brothers. This could be the beginning of a little Tory in fighting.

This.

Gove could be manoeuvring against BoJo; Murdoch is said to be a fan of the former.

Not sure who I'd prefer though...

19-04-2020 07:56PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

This.

Gove could be manoeuvring against BoJo; Murdoch is said to be a fan of the former.

The criticism is mild and disorganized at the moment, driven by a tepid media.

The UK isn't over the worst of this yet but the Government has definitely lost control of the narrative now and I think they'll struggle to regain it. This is going to get worse and the Tories are going to be damaged by it, potentially seriously.

There is a stark lack of talent in that cabinet and no one who is going to lead them out of this mess which is my big worry. No leadership and Johnson is completely awol and potentially under internal political threat will impact their ability to tackle covid head on.

A further big worry for them now is that a very senior Tory is speaking to the media candidly and they are not doing that out of concern, moves are likely afoot based on the reputational damage to come.

It's an odd situation. Cultural supremacy and a misguided sense of superiority were major, major ingredients of Brexit. If it turns out that the UK fails hardest in the EU zone in the face of covid, led by the very people cheerleading Brexit it's going to raises questions even hardcore brexiteers may be uncomfortable with.

You would take heart in the collapse of right wing populism in the UK if that comes to pass - but it's costing thousands of lives at the moment and there is no taking that back. Despairing.

Neil3030 wrote: »

Not sure who I'd prefer though...

Gove. Much smarter and a more capable politician than Boris which at a serious time is a good thing and they'll never be able to build a cult around him like the other tosser.

irishbucsfan · 19-04-2020 08:22PM

Every time I see Give I just remember that video of him trying to clap like a normal person. Can’t take him seriously at all. And the horrific 90s tv show where he utterly embarrassed himself.

The whole crowd are an embarrassment. Both major parties seem to have ripped any competence out of their front benches

prawnsambo · 19-04-2020 09:16PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Every time I see Give I just remember that video of him trying to clap like a normal person. Can’t take him seriously at all. And the horrific 90s tv show where he utterly embarrassed himself.

The whole crowd are an embarrassment. Both major parties seem to have ripped any competence out of their front benches

Gove is a joke alright. And his wife is like Lady Macbeth behind him. I'd have some hope that Keir Starmer is able to rebuild the Labour Party. There are at least a decent number of competent people there. Once they can sideline the Corbynistas.

19-04-2020 09:35PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Gove is a joke alright. And his wife is like Lady Macbeth behind him. I'd have some hope that Keir Starmer is able to rebuild the Labour Party. There are at least a decent number of competent people there. Once they can sideline the Corbynistas.

The story of Labour since Brown if ever fully and accurately told will be fascinating. You have a political party having a full blown existential crisis right at the same time as the country they wish to lead is completely ****ting the bed.

That they couldn't account for May or Johnson in any meaningful fashion is astonishing and their inability to bridge internal divides during a time when the country needed an opposition more than ever is disappointing.

I feel that Corbyn was horrifically mistreated and vilified by many predictably on the right but too many on the left also. He was less popular than Epstein which is an absurd smearing for a bloody do gooder pacifist. At the same time he couldn't bring the party together and for that he is a failure. It may not have been his fault and the utter pettiness exposed in recent reports and leaks suggests that he was dealing with very unreasonable people. Despite that - if he was unable to unite the labour party - there is no way he was bringing the UK back together.

It's all a huge mess. They sleepwalked into their Coronavirus disaster but they've been sleepwalking into a more long term one for some time now. The cult status of Tommy Robinson, the mainstreaming of Nigel Farage and the electing of Boris Johnson are all very obvious symptoms of a sickness pervading the UK. It appears that covid19 exposes pre existing conditions on an individual and state level.

sydthebeat · 19-04-2020 09:46PM

Can I just take this as an opportunity to appeal to the mods about the "no politics" policy in this off topic thread.

The initial reason for that policy was down to politics (and religion) being too divisive.

Can I just point to the last few pages to show that we can discuss politics in here without any major issue.

In fact, you get much more major sh!t shows in the threads where we are supposed to discuss politics.

So can I call for a review of that policy in this tread please..... (you can keep the ban on religion!!

)

bilston · 19-04-2020 09:48PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Gove is a joke alright. And his wife is like Lady Macbeth behind him. I'd have some hope that Keir Starmer is able to rebuild the Labour Party. There are at least a decent number of competent people there. Once they can sideline the Corbynistas.

I sometimes wonder what the political landscape in the UK would look like if the Labour Party had elected David instead of Ed as leader back in 2010.

I think David Milliband could have beaten Cameron in 2015, and then the course of British politics would have been very different indeed.

Neil3030 · 19-04-2020 09:52PM

bilston wrote: »

I sometimes wonder what the political landscape in the UK would look like if the Labour Party had elected David instead of Ed as leader back in 2010.

I think David Milliband could have beaten Cameron in 2015, and then the course of British politics would have been very different indeed.

If anyone listens to Jimbo's podcast, they, like me, are no doubt getting the opening of this song in their head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=subrMQzFeuw

bilston · 19-04-2020 09:52PM

Clegg wrote: »

From my pov, The Times has always been slightly more willing to criticise the Tories. Still a predominantly Conservative leaning publication though.

The Telegraph is a complete ****rag however. Doesn't bother to hide it's bias and naked cheerleading. If they were to ever turn on Boris you'd know he's really in trouble power wise.

Historically correct. Didn't Murdoch back Blair back in 1997? I know the Sun did, I assume the Times did as well. I remember it was a massive deal at the time.

mfceiling · 19-04-2020 10:06PM

bilston wrote: »

Historically correct. Didn't Murdoch back Blair back in 1997? I know the Sun did, I assume the Times did as well. I remember it was a massive deal at the time.

Much as I despise "The Scum" as a paper I do remember them turning from a Tory paper and throwing their support behind Blair and Labour at the time.
I had no interest in politics then (still very little now) but I remember thinking that they were more interested in populism than journalism.

Horrible horrible paper.

Zzippy · 19-04-2020 11:29PM

dregin wrote: »

A mate has an autonymous lawnmower taking care of nearly an acre of lawn. Charges itself in a little dock, comes out and does the cutting whenever it feels it needs to and does it often enough that the amount it's cutting is so minescule that it doesn't need to collect it in a bag and it just rots below the spot it was cut. Class craic altogether.

I've had one for 3 years now, cutting about half an acre. Best piece of kit I ever got. Can't recommend them highly enough.

sydthebeat wrote: »

Can I just take this as an opportunity to appeal to the mods about the "no politics" policy in this off topic thread.

)

We'll consider it.

swiwi_ · 20-04-2020 04:55AM

Zzippy wrote: »

I've had one for 3 years now, cutting about half an acre. Best piece of kit I ever got. Can't recommend them highly enough.

We'll consider it.

I would just make it no Irish politics especially no NI vs Republic politics.

Rigor Mortis · 20-04-2020 07:33AM

swiwi_ wrote: »

I would just make it no Irish politics especially no NI vs Republic politics.

I was thinking this. We're always a lot better behaved on this island when we are pointing out what the rest of the world is doing wrong.

jacothelad · 20-04-2020 08:25AM

Neil3030 wrote: »

This.

Gove could be manoeuvring against BoJo; Murdoch is said to be a fan of the former.

Not sure who I'd prefer though...

Genital herpes and Ebola sound more appealing/

jacothelad · 20-04-2020 08:37AM

bilston wrote: »

I sometimes wonder what the political landscape in the UK would look like if the Labour Party had elected David instead of Ed as leader back in 2010.

I think David Milliband could have beaten Cameron in 2015, and then the course of British politics would have been very different indeed.

Hear! Hear! Ed Milliband was set up and basically rammed into position as a dupe by Len McCluskey for the furtherance of John McDonnell and the successors of Militant. McCloskey and his 'Party Within A Party', Momentum led by John Lansman, is the greatest block on the Labour Party being a centrist group. That position is the only one in which they will ever be re-elected over the amateur morons of the ERG and the right wing press.

Off Topic Thread 4.0

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