Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

whisky_galore · 17-04-2020 08:54AM

seamus wrote: »

There's also the issue that an army of inexperienced volunteers will pick the crop considerably slower, which will lead to far more wastage.

They'd eat half the fruit, in between checking their phones.

MojoMaker · 17-04-2020 08:55AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Btw Keelings, I will never buy your products again or off a company you supply to.

Where are you going to pick up your cheap booze and crisps if you won't be able to shop in Dunnes, Aldi, Tesco, Lidl, Supervalu, Centra, or Spar? :rolleyes:

Pretzill · 17-04-2020 08:56AM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

:pac: you have no idea

Actually I do. As long as it isn't handled in a slave labour time in motion way - which I'm sure it is for greedy companies like this one. Their fruit would still be picked just more slowly - so what?

whisky_galore · 17-04-2020 08:56AM

plodder wrote: »

I suppose we could tell Keelings to shutdown and just import strawberries grown and picked somewhere else, like a lot of other fresh produce. Keep going that way and we won't have much of an economy left though.

Probably picked by the near slave labour of African migrants, but sure out of sight is out of mind, isn't it?

17-04-2020 08:57AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How had it never occurred to anyone to raise the wages to the point where natives will do it?

I'm generally Pro EU but this is a blatant attack on low skilled natives and is one of the main reasons the UK is leaving the EU.

It didn't even occur to them to hire Irish to do the job because the wages and conditions are too low for Irish people. The normal flow of supply and demand dictates; when you run low on labour, you need to raise pay and working conditions to attract people to do the work and the wages of low and no skilled people would rise.

But with the EU free movement of unskilled labour means they never run out of labour and the cost of labour ever rises apart from mandated minimum wage rises. And people wonder why the dole is so attractive compared to working on low wages.

I really thought this crisis would make us face up to the real cost of producing food by forcing farmers to use Irish labour and forcing consumers to pay the true cost for the food. But no. There's a way around paying livable wages to the lowest paid. It's a conspiracy against allowing the wages for the lowest paid to rise.

It's not EU free movement that is the problem here.

We demand affordable food available year round and people for the most part don't care where it is from or how it gets there.

Notice how many foods are no longer seasonal?

Most of our winter fruit and veg comes from giant greenhouses in the south of Spain. They are so huge they are visible from space. They make extensive use of undocumented migrant labour from North Africa.
There are hundreds of square km of glass and plastic providing fruit and veg during the winter to the whole of Europe. All on the backs of cheap and exploitative work practices.

Scotty # · 17-04-2020 08:58AM

GarIT wrote: »

What keeling's need is irrelevant. Nobody gives a **** about what anyone else needs, we hardly even give a **** about what the nurses need. Why is the government listening to what keeling's needs.

Nurses have said many times that the spread would be less if they could hand in their contimainted uniforms to be cleaned professionally instead of bringing them home like is the norm in many other countries and the gov told them to go **** themselves. Keeling's can go **** themselves

Well, errrr, I don't know..... maybe, just maybe, they are trying to keep enough food on the shelves to feed a few million people, perhaps????

Jinglejangle69 · 17-04-2020 08:58AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How had it never occurred to anyone to raise the wages to the point where natives will do it?

I'm generally Pro EU but this is a blatant attack on low skilled natives and is one of the main reasons the UK is leaving the EU.

It didn't even occur to them to hire Irish to do the job because the wages and conditions are too low for Irish people. The normal flow of supply and demand dictates; when you run low on labour, you need to raise pay and working conditions to attract people to do the work and the wages of low and no skilled people would rise.

But with the EU free movement of unskilled labour means they never run out of labour and the cost of labour ever rises apart from mandated minimum wage rises. And people wonder why the dole is so attractive compared to working on low wages.

I really thought this crisis would make us face up to the real cost of producing food by forcing farmers to use Irish labour and forcing consumers to pay the true cost for the food. But no. There's a way around paying livable wages to the lowest paid. It's a conspiracy against allowing the wages for the lowest paid to rise.

But us Irish sure do love a good bargain in Aldi.

Graham · 17-04-2020 08:58AM

plodder wrote: »

I suppose we could tell Keelings to shutdown and just import strawberries grown and picked somewhere else, like a lot of other fresh produce. Keep going that way and we won't have much of an economy left though.

Where can we import fruit & vegetables from that isn't largely picked by migrant workers?

Tacitus Kilgore · 17-04-2020 09:01AM

Pretzill wrote: »

Actually I do. As long as it isn't handled in a slave labour time in motion way - which I'm sure it is for greedy companies like this one. Their fruit would still be picked just more slowly - so what?

No you don't, your knowledge of fruit picking is rose tinted childhood memories on a holiday/working farm.

It is absolutely nothing like modern commercial fruit picking, children wouldn't manage half an hour at it.

Laughable

plodder · 17-04-2020 09:01AM

Graham wrote: »

Where can we import fruit & vegetables from that isn't largely picked by migrant workers?

No idea. Where is the outrage about all our imported fruit and veg so?

kravmaga · 17-04-2020 09:02AM

olestoepoke wrote: »

Yep, sounds like pure greed on their part. Reckless behaviour to say the least.

Corporate greed here at its worst, absolute disgrace.

Bob24 · 17-04-2020 09:03AM

Graham wrote: »

I have no issue flying in workers where they are isolated on arrival and sensible precautions are taken.

I consider food supply to be pretty important and I'd really rather governments didn't start to decide which food products should/shouldn't be available.

Even when over half a million people were just made unemployed due to Covid-19?

You genuinely believe it wouldn't be possible to find 200 people in the country who could do a OK job at picking strawberries in a situation whereby you are saying picking them is critical for the country and so many people have just lost their job? If yes I think it is having very little faith in what we can achieve as a country.

Also there is an unavoidable health risk with flying-in 200 people from abroad (which is why travel is restricted). Obviously that risk is sometimes worth taking (for exemple no-one would question it lets say to bring-in a plane of doctors and nurses). But I think it is much harder to explain how the risk is justified in this particular case when we have hundreds of thousands unemployed, sitting at home, and told they can't go for a walk more than 2km away from home (from my perspective, as I was saying I absolutely don't believe that with just a little bit good will from all parties it wouldn't be possible to find 200 pickers within that existing workforce in the country who can do the job).

Not to mention that if a quarantine is properly adhered to, they won't be able to start working for the first 14 days so this can't even be justified by an urgent need.

AndyBoBandy · 17-04-2020 09:03AM

It's quite sad the lack of intelligence on display in this thread. Outrage for the sake of outrage!!

These fruit pickers are for want of a better word professionals at what they do. They would do in an hour what an Irish picker would do in a day, although you'd never be able to gauge it correctly as no Irish worker would even last a full day picking strawberries. They won't take smoke breaks, they won't check their phones every 5 minutes, and they won't need a 'rest' every 20 minutes. They will be efficient, and get the job done in the time it needs to be done.

Anyone here that thinks 200 Irish people will do a similar job is deluded. Maybe after a few years experience of picking fruit, the Irish just might do a decent enough job, but I'd still doubt they'd pick better than these folks being brought in to do it. The trouble is Keelings don't have the time to train 200 out of work Irish to do this job as good as the Bulgarians or Romanians. It's a highly skilled job to do it in the efficiency that the job requires. Barry who worked in the bookies, or Mary who worked in Penny's will not ever be able to do this job (unless maybe they had a few years to get up to speed).

Also, in Bulgaria, their Covid-19 rate is 117 cases per million people. In the U.K. it's 1,551 cases per million people, so why are you not all outraged by the fact there are 10 flights arriving today from the U.K.? and 10 flights tomorrow, and another 10 the day after that? edit: this is just for Dublin airport

Thats right, it's the 1 flight from Bulgaria with 200 workers on board who will be bussed from the airport to a field in Fingal, and will not leave that field until they are bussed back to the airport a few weeks later to fly home that will be the straw that broke the camels back!!
These people will have ZERO interactions with any Irish people bar the 4-5 Paddys that will pay them and feed them while they are here.

Graham · 17-04-2020 09:04AM

GarIT wrote: »

190 strawberry pickets aren't going to feed a few million people

No but when you start to insist fruit & veg can't be picked by migrant workers you start to put the entire EU supply at risk.

Scotty # · 17-04-2020 09:04AM

GarIT wrote: »

190 strawberry pickets aren't going to feed a few million people

You think these few are the only fruit pickers in this country right now? LMAO!!!

17-04-2020 09:04AM

Covid19 wrote: »

Some folks are missing the point here. The World and society has changed forever. This changed has prevented what we deemed normal, and will not return to the way things were. Bricks and Mortar retail has taken a huge hit. More people are shopping online and thousands of shops will never open again. Most companies have remained closed and will either never trade again, or will trade under very different procedures and processes.
Some companies, such as Keelings, seem to think that, despite the enormous, society-changing, upheaval brought about by the virus, that they can continue working as normal but they are sadly mistaken.
For example, Hardware stores are technically allowed to remain open as they are listed as an essential service, however the Grafton Group ( Woodies, Chadwicks, Heiton Buckley) have chosen to remain closed for the wellbeing of their staff and for positive optics.
Keelings have stuck both fingers in their ears and are loudly shouting "La la is is la la" as if all is well.
One companies actions has resulted in those of us who either work the front line, isolated ourselves from our loved ones or have become unemployed due to these life-changing times, to ask " what's the point? ".
What they have been permitted to do will have much greater consequences for the government then these threads on Boards, Twitter or Facebook.
They will be on the usual Media outlets later today to try to shut the stable door. Bad management, bad planning and a refusal to adapt to a new way of living has resulted in optics of the worst kind for their PRO.

In general I agree with the sentiments, but.. food supply is a frontline service

Graham · 17-04-2020 09:05AM

Bob24 wrote: »

You genuinely believe it wouldn't be possible to find 200 people in the country who could do a OK job at picking strawberries

200 people for this company, this week and yes they are trying to recruit locally.

Tacitus Kilgore · 17-04-2020 09:10AM

GarIT wrote: »

No, but turning these away wouldn't have destroyed the supply chain. The ones that are here can stay, other than that the borders should be closed

Well they aren't, and its not keelings decision to keep them open.

The outrage in this thread is gas, people really need to take their heads out of their holes and see how the world works before they start crying about boycotts and all other sorts of rabble rousing shite.

Scotty # · 17-04-2020 09:11AM

GarIT wrote: »

No, but turning these away wouldn't have destroyed the supply chain. The ones that are here can stay, other than that the borders should be closed

Gar, these are 190 of several thousand that are needed and will be brought in, not just by Keelings.

seamus · 17-04-2020 09:13AM

GarIT wrote: »

190 strawberry pickets aren't going to feed a few million people

These 190 are only the ones you know about because some gob****e thought it was an outrage.

jay0109 · 17-04-2020 09:13AM

Sean O'Rourke show on RTE. Sean just said they're getting a huge response to the issue from listeners and it's largely negative. People not happy at following restrictions when they see this kind of carry on happening. Plus the high dole payments here

Graham · 17-04-2020 09:13AM

GarIT wrote: »

You are completely misquoting me. I said a plane with 190 people on it should not have been allowed land in Ireland. I don't give a **** what any other country does.

No but you're asking us to set a precedent for the handling of crops for the EU.

It's quite easy to call for that when your fridge is full and the shelves in the supermarket are stocked.

What do we do when it's time to harvest cauliflower, broccoli, cabbages, celery, apples, cabbages.....

What happens if other food producing nations start to follow our lead?

AndyBoBandy · 17-04-2020 09:13AM

GarIT wrote: »

The rate is lower in Bulgaria because they aren't testing. The actual numbers aren't known

They are also not (properly) testing in the U.K. yet the U.K.'s numbers are huge compared to Bulgaria, so what point are you trying to make?

Pretzill · 17-04-2020 09:13AM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It's quite sad the lack of intelligence on display in this thread. Outrage for the sake of outrage!!

.

I see the other side, I see a lot of people not recognising or being ignorant of how bad things could get. Like food may be rationed, we may not have fresh fruit or veg at all and might have to rely on tinned products (or growing our own) This is what happens in a World Crisis. It has happened before in wars and is still happening in many countries. People don't seem to grasp that at all, instead they assume everything will carry on as normal, strawberries abound.

Regardless of how excellently skilled foreign workers are, they should not be flown in during a pandemic and if that means no fresh fruit, so be it. These times will get a lot tougher if companies keep flouting guidelines which most of us, though finding it difficult, are sticking to.

This could get a lot worse before it's over and even afterwards. Lack of fruit will be the least of our worries

17-04-2020 09:14AM

Optics are bad on the surface. “Foreigners flown in during lockdown while Irish are laid off”. If you delve deeper though, apparently they’re self isolating and you’d assume are going to be screened. Not to mention that most Irish people wouldn’t leave their €350 stay at home pay to work hard labour for a lot less. I certainly wouldn’t anyway, that’s being honest. I doubt many would at all.

But it’s easier to get worked about it after just taking the headline in. And that’s exactly what people do nowadays.

Scotty # · 17-04-2020 09:14AM

GarIT wrote: »

Ok, that wasn't the post I was replying to. None should be brought in another solution should be found.

You are welcome to apply, that will mean one less needed to import > https://keelings.ie/corporate/careers-at-keelings/

kravmaga · 17-04-2020 09:14AM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It's quite sad the lack of intelligence on display in this thread. Outrage for the sake of outrage!!

These fruit pickers are for want of a better word professionals at what they do. They would do in an hour what an Irish picker would do in a day, although you'd never be able to gauge it correctly as no Irish worker would even last a full day picking strawberries. They won't take smoke breaks, they won't check their phones every 5 minutes, and they won't need a 'rest' every 20 minutes. They will be efficient, and get the job done in the time it needs to be done.

Anyone here that thinks 200 Irish people will do a similar job is deluded. Maybe after a few years experience of picking fruit, the Irish just might do a decent enough job, but I'd still doubt they'd pick better than these folks being brought in to do it. The trouble is Keelings don't have the time to train 200 out of work Irish to do this job as good as the Bulgarians or Romanians. It's a highly skilled job to do it in the efficiency that the job requires. Barry who worked in the bookies, or Mary who worked in Penny's will not ever be able to do this job (unless maybe they had a few years to get up to speed).

Also, in Bulgaria, their Covid-19 rate is 117 cases per million people. In the U.K. it's 1,551 cases per million people, so why are you not all outraged by the fact there are 10 flights arriving today from the U.K.? and 10 flights tomorrow, and another 10 the day after that?

Thats right, it's the 1 flight from Bulgaria with 200 workers on board who will be bussed from the airport to a field in Fingal, and will not leave that field until they are bussed back to the airport a few weeks later to fly home that will be the straw that broke the camels back!!
These people will have ZERO interactions with any Irish people bar the 4-5 Paddys that will pay them and feed them while they are here.

So your branding all of us on this thread as non -intelligent now?? Get a grip will you. A tad condescending tbh?

See article 10, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/y-ddeddf-hawliau-dynol/article-10-freedom-expression

NATLOR · 17-04-2020 09:14AM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It's quite sad the lack of intelligence on display in this thread. Outrage for the sake of outrage!!

These fruit pickers are for want of a better word professionals at what they do. They would do in an hour what an Irish picker would do in a day, although you'd never be able to gauge it correctly as no Irish worker would even last a full day picking strawberries. They won't take smoke breaks, they won't check their phones every 5 minutes, and they won't need a 'rest' every 20 minutes. They will be efficient, and get the job done in the time it needs to be done.

Anyone here that thinks 200 Irish people will do a similar job is deluded. Maybe after a few years experience of picking fruit, the Irish just might do a decent enough job, but I'd still doubt they'd pick better than these folks being brought in to do it. The trouble is Keelings don't have the time to train 200 out of work Irish to do this job as good as the Bulgarians or Romanians. It's a highly skilled job to do it in the efficiency that the job requires. Barry who worked in the bookies, or Mary who worked in Penny's will not ever be able to do this job (unless maybe they had a few years to get up to speed).

Also, in Bulgaria, their Covid-19 rate is 117 cases per million people. In the U.K. it's 1,551 cases per million people, so why are you not all outraged by the fact there are 10 flights arriving today from the U.K.? and 10 flights tomorrow, and another 10 the day after that?

Thats right, it's the 1 flight from Bulgaria with 200 workers on board who will be bussed from the airport to a field in Fingal, and will not leave that field until they are bussed back to the airport a few weeks later to fly home that will be the straw that broke the camels back!!
These people will have ZERO interactions with any Irish people bar the 4-5 Paddys that will pay them and feed them while they are here.

Most informed post on the thread
And just to add the season runs for 6 months
Say a farm employs from the current pool of unemployed then their jobs get reinstated in 3 months time do they stay loyal, I don't think so

gmisk · 17-04-2020 09:14AM

GarIT wrote: »

You are completely misquoting me. I said a plane with 190 people on it should not have been allowed land in Ireland. I don't give a **** what any other country does. And it's perfectly fine for people already here to keep working. Could they not be redeployed when one crop is finished move onto the next instead of going back?

The airport's should be closed to passengers that is the most important thing. Anything else can be resolved.

Crops have a fairly short period of time they can be picked you do know that?
So your solution is to move other large groups of people around the country to pick fruit and veg.......actually laughable

Tacitus Kilgore · 17-04-2020 09:15AM

GarIT wrote: »

That's why my anger is mostly directed to the government for not preventing this and not towards keeling's. Although they shouldn't be helping to cause problems.

Keelings are doing what they should - being part of what is deemed essential food production they are doing all within their means - legally - to ensure they stay in production.

If the general public are stupid enough to see a problem with this then, well, it seems we're a nation of fucking idiots.

Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

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