Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

weldoninhio · 17-04-2020 08:35AM

timetogo1 wrote: »

So what's the argument here?

1: Don't give them food and board?
2: Pay them more?
3: Only hire Irish people who already have food and board (presumably with parents).

Each question has answers that are not black and white.

1: I'm not mad about that. They'd be going out into the community more then.
2: I'm fine with that. The price of our food will go up or we'll import more from other countries.
3: I'm fine with that too. If they can't get Irish workers then what? Automate and increase the cost of production or import our strawberries from abroad.

I presume Keelings aren't the only strawberry grower in Ireland. What do other producers do?

Option 4. Fuck the strawberries this season. No one dies. No one starves. No one notices. No one needs to be imported during a pandemic.

Graham · 17-04-2020 08:36AM

Bob24 wrote: »

"food supply is essential" doesn't explain why you would arrange a privatised plane to bring workers from abroad to pick strawberries in Ireland while the population is told that just walking over 2 km form their home is a public heath risk

People in food production quite sensibly are permitted further than 2km and across international borders.

It makes sense when you consider that food is pretty essential and most countries import/export a huge amount of their food produce.

gmisk · 17-04-2020 08:36AM

GarIT wrote: »

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/06/thousands-sign-pick-homegrown-fruit-vegetables-spoil-12518771/

Ah that would be the same scheme that resulted in 100 people actually wanting the job.
You do know tens of thousands of people are required? If the cost of the labour goes up the price of the product soars...how much would you be willing to pay for your fruit and veg?

is_that_so · 17-04-2020 08:36AM

GarIT wrote: »

30,000 volunteered to do it for free in the UK to prevent people being imported according to another poster.

My mother has been telling me she will go and do it for free if it means one less person enters the country. If I wasn't an essential worker I'd do it for free. It might even be a nice opportunity to get out of the house.

Isn't there a much bigger risk of those 30,000 moving around the country and bringing it with them?

weldoninhio · 17-04-2020 08:36AM

Graham wrote: »

So you're saying it's ok to ship people around our heavily infected country without issue it's just foreigners isolating on a farm that are a problem.

Or something else?

"If they need a plane load of people in to produce/harvest then they should be stopped. They don't though. So you're talking ****e." - That is what i'm saying, you quoted it.

Wanderer78 · 17-04-2020 08:37AM

Kivaro wrote:

How do you know? The fact that you would not do this work is a reflection on you, and you only, and not on Irish society as a whole.

Oh trust me, most irish people, including myself, have moved on from hard labour, most newly unemployed are probably hoping to stroll back into their jobs at the end of this, so will be sitting on the sidelines, waiting in hope. If they were offered this work, they'd probably tell yea ta go fcuk yourself, as I probably would. Yes I'm only speculating about others reactions, but..... we really have moved on from this kind of work, we largely don't want to do it anymore, of course some would do it, and happily. Do I have shame, do I fcuk, so work away with all the shame on you comments, at least I'm being honest, and not talking ****e, like some on the Internets

gmisk · 17-04-2020 08:37AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Option 4. Fuck the strawberries this season. No one dies. No one starves. No one notices. No one needs to be imported during a pandemic.

Kellings collapses tonnes of Irish jobs lost ah yeah sure who cares.

Graham · 17-04-2020 08:37AM

GarIT wrote: »

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/06/thousands-sign-pick-homegrown-fruit-vegetables-spoil-12518771/

and 10 days later:

The charity Concordia said the response had been "phenomenal", but that a labour shortage was still expected.

Stephanie Maurel, its chief executive, told the BBC's Today programme that 36,000 people had registered interest and more than 6,000 had conducted a video interview.

But in the last 10 days, while almost 900 people had been offered jobs, just 112 have agreed contracts to accept employment.

17-04-2020 08:38AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

They didn't give a tuppenny damn who picked their fruit prior to this.

It’s not about who’s picking the fruit in any other year but the year 2020 isn’t like any other year.

If all the workers had been quarantined prior to their departure then it would have shown that all possible preventive measures had been taken. But keelings have imported what could (we won’t know for 14 days) a possible problem.

How long is a picking season? Keelings are calling these workers specialists. Do they only work for this set time or could they have come from another area picking there beforehand?

is_that_so · 17-04-2020 08:39AM

gmisk wrote: »

Kellings collapses tonnes of Irish jobs lost ah yeah sure who cares.

They have about 2000 employees.

gmisk · 17-04-2020 08:40AM

GarIT wrote: »

It would work out better than a planeload of people coming in. The airport's should be closed to people.

Would it? Honestly think about it logically.

190 people flown in to a basically empty airport coached to accomodation...kept on site for two weeks plus...do the work...shipped out.
Versus 190 Irish people mixing for weeks going home to their families going to the shops travelling in to work...

seamus · 17-04-2020 08:40AM

kravmaga wrote: »

Why did they not source local labour 1st

They did.

Were temp checks conducted at Dublin Airport on these workers from Bulgaria by DAA or HSE officials?

Temp checks are worthless. 14 days self isolation upon arrival is the only method.

They have to pay for the accommodation for the workers from Bulgaria. Is this something which Keelings do every year or is this a new phenomenon.

They've been doing this for years.

I wont be buying their product going forward and this could turn out to be a very bad business decision for Keelings , this brings back memories of the famous Dunnes Stores strike in Henry street when the staff refused to sell South African fruit because of the regime in SA at that time in the early 80's.

Who do think picks all the other Irish strawberries and blueberries on your shelves?

wpd wrote: »

I would rather the fruit rotted in the ground than we bring in these workers with all the risks associated

Thankfully you're not in charge of the food supply chain otherwise you'd have us all eating nothing but potatoes for the next six months.

GarIT wrote: »

30,000 volunteered to do it for free in the UK to prevent people being imported according to another poster.

30,000 British people signed up to do paid work picking crops. And it's still less than 50% of the workforce that Britain needs to do this.

My mother has been telling me she will go and do it for free if it means one less person enters the country. If I wasn't an essential worker I'd do it for free. It might even be a nice opportunity to get out of the house.

I appreciate the sentiment behind you and your mothers' words, but I guarantee you'd be thinking very differently about it after half a day of back-breaking work, knowing that Keelings are going to take your work and sell it to supermarkets.

There's also the issue that an army of inexperienced volunteers will pick the crop considerably slower, which will lead to far more wastage.

Bob24 · 17-04-2020 08:41AM

Graham wrote: »

People in food production quite sensibly are permitted further than 2km and across international borders.

It makes sense when you consider that food is pretty essential and most countries import/export a huge amount of their food produce.

Of course that is obvious and absolutely no-one who question this. But you are again not taking into account that what we are talking about is flying workers from abroad to pick strawberries and conditions I explained in the rest of my post which you didn't quote:

Bob24 wrote: »

"food supply is essential" doesn't explain why you would arrange a privatised plane to bring workers from abroad to pick strawberries in Ireland while the population is told that just walking over 2 km form their home is a public heath risk (let alone travelling internationally) and a massive numbers within the workforce already in the country just lost their job.

Assuming those strawberries are deemed absolutly essential to our food supply chain (which is arguable either way); if they are so critical it is hard to understand why the government, the employer, and the significantly unemployed workforce already in the country (regardless of nationality) cannot figure a way to get 200 workers lined up to pick fruits. It would be cheaper for the country as a whole, reduce the health risk, and frankly look much better in this situation.

El_Duderino 09 · 17-04-2020 08:41AM

s1ippy wrote: »

My understanding, as told to me by a lad who had tried to get work with them, is that they get food and board on the site and by providing this the company then skirts paying minimum wage, as they're just helpers and not officially employees, only paying them expenses incurred and pocket money.

How had it never occurred to anyone to raise the wages to the point where natives will do it?

I'm generally Pro EU but this is a blatant attack on low skilled natives and is one of the main reasons the UK is leaving the EU.

It didn't even occur to them to hire Irish to do the job because the wages and conditions are too low for Irish people. The normal flow of supply and demand dictates; when you run low on labour, you need to raise pay and working conditions to attract people to do the work and the wages of low and no skilled people would rise.

But with the EU free movement of unskilled labour means they never run out of labour and the cost of labour ever rises apart from mandated minimum wage rises. And people wonder why the dole is so attractive compared to working on low wages.

I really thought this crisis would make us face up to the real cost of producing food by forcing farmers to use Irish labour and forcing consumers to pay the true cost for the food. But no. There's a way around paying livable wages to the lowest paid. It's a conspiracy against allowing the wages for the lowest paid to rise.

plodder · 17-04-2020 08:42AM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

The correct thing to do would have been to have them isolate in Bulgaria for 2 weeks before being crammed onto a plane, walked through Dublin airport grouped together, crowded onto a bus to bring them to Keelings and then placed in quarantine.

What happens if one of the workers had covid19 before they departed. That’s a possible 189 workers being infected in and around the same time (1 infects 2, those 2 infect 4). What sort of strain would that put on the health services?

That sounds reasonable, but then you'd have people saying - how do we know they really isolated for two weeks before they came here: they should isolate here where we can see them.

When I was a student back in the 70s/80s you could not any decent casual job unless you knew someone who could get you in. That was how casual work was handed out (and non casual work too, but that's another story). The only kind of work that would take anyone was the likes of strawberry picking. Very few people wanted to do it back then as well because it is back-breaking. It was much easier to either emigrate or go to another country with a functioning economy, for the Summer, like US or UK .

So, the idea that here is 189 jobs that the unemployed could do is beyond fanciful.

Graham · 17-04-2020 08:43AM

Bob24 wrote: »

Of course that is obvious and absolutely no-one who question this. But you are again not taking into account that what we are talking about is flying workers from abroad to pick strawberries and conditions I explained in the rest of my post which you didn't quote.

I have no issue flying in workers where they are isolated on arrival and sensible precautions are taken.

I consider food supply to be pretty important and I'd really rather governments didn't start to decide which food products should/shouldn't be available.

YFlyer · 17-04-2020 08:45AM

mulbot wrote: »

I'm sure we could've found 200 though who would.

How much is the typical wage?

Pretzill · 17-04-2020 08:46AM

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

People won't pay 15 quid for a punnet of strawberries though

This is bollix - Keelings fruit isn't cheap. It's priced as a premium product anyway - They are all about the profit margin. If they paid their existing workers more and took the hit themselves the consumer wouldn't even notice. By the way fruit picking isn't skilled or hard labour - when I was a kid there were fruit picking holidays to the south of England family work in exchange for food and board and fun, healthy time was had.

A lot of people are underestimating the sense of coming together in a crisis here. All Keelings had to do was bring their workers in before the lockdown or advertise for local work -

17-04-2020 08:48AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Keelings own statement stated that these people are here to pick strawberries.

It's interesting that the people who are up in arms about this are sticking rigidly to the part of the Keelings statement that they are picking strawberries but don't believe them about the health measures they are taking.

fryup · 17-04-2020 08:48AM

are bulgarian women sexy?

Graham · 17-04-2020 08:48AM

Pretzill wrote: »

All Keelings had to do was bring their workers in before the lockdown or advertise for local work -

They have been advertising for locals

AndyBoBandy · 17-04-2020 08:48AM

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Whatever way you look at this- it’s ridiculous that they were allowed bring in a plane load of exploited staff on crap wages just to keep their profits high

It's nice that only now you find this ridiculous, and never had issue with this practice for the years and years it's been going on.

plodder · 17-04-2020 08:49AM

GarIT wrote: »

Is has been confirmed that they can not and are not isolating. They are sharing bedrooms and will have to come into contact with people in Ireland to either be provided food or buy food.

Lots of things are being claimed here, like they are being paid less than minimum wage which turn out to be wrong. Though I would agree, that we shouldn't just take the employers word that they are self-isolating. There should be some checks done.

Graham · 17-04-2020 08:50AM

GarIT wrote: »

Whatever it takes. I can do without if it means the borders can be closed

With 10 seconds thought

Wine, citrus fruits, chocolate, tea, coffee, fuel, sugar.

vicwatson · 17-04-2020 08:50AM

Elmo wrote: »

Seriously the HQ of the ICA?

Looked up au pairs you can deduct just 7.75 per day from their Minimum wage for food and board.

I just asked the question, you know where they are staying then do you?

Scotty # · 17-04-2020 08:50AM

Bob24 wrote: »

Assuming those strawberries are deemed absolutly essential to our food supply chain (which is arguable either way); if they are so critical it is hard to understand why the government, the employer, and the significantly unemployed workforce already in the country (regardless of nationality) cannot figure a way to get 200 workers lined up to pick fruits. It would be cheaper for the country as a whole, reduce the health risk, and frankly look much better in this situation.

This has been explained several times in the thread already.

200 novices, who may leave again next week to return to their normal job, are no use. Keelings need experienced, highly productive, reliable staff.

If you fit the bill you can apply here > https://keelings.ie/corporate/careers-at-keelings/

17-04-2020 08:52AM

Cody montana wrote: »

More yummy fresh fruit for us!

You should have a month ban for saying “yummy”.

Tacitus Kilgore · 17-04-2020 08:53AM

Pretzill wrote: »

This is bollix - Keelings fruit isn't cheap. It's priced as a premium product anyway - They are all about the profit margin. If they paid their existing workers more and took the hit themselves the consumer wouldn't even notice. By the way fruit picking isn't skilled or hard labour - when I was a kid there were fruit picking holidays to the south of England family work in exchange for food and board and fun, healthy time was had.

A lot of people are underestimating the sense of coming together in a crisis here. All Keelings had to do was bring their workers in before the lockdown or advertise for local work -

:pac: you have no idea

Graham · 17-04-2020 08:53AM

GarIT wrote: »

Most of those aren't picked in Ireland. I've no problem with goods travelling or other people working on farms in their own countries. It's travel that's the problem

You obviously have no idea of the quite literally hundreds of thousands of migrant fruit pickers that are required every year across Europe.

It's not just strawberries you'll be missing.

plodder · 17-04-2020 08:54AM

I suppose we could tell Keelings to shutdown and just import strawberries grown and picked somewhere else, like a lot of other fresh produce. Keep going that way and we won't have much of an economy left though.

Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

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