Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

17-04-2020 04:49AM

amadangomor wrote: »

That woman comes across as a racist two faced twat who should be home herself.

What was racist about that?

12trackmind · 17-04-2020 04:51AM

Interesting thread.

One thing I take from it is that there is a lot of helplessness (I think that's the right word) around.

We need to get into growing our own fruit and veg. Strawberries grow really well in Ireland. I've been growing them in my (small) garden for the past few years. I let the patch grow further this year, because I want to be able to give some to my neighbours too. Growing a rake load of beans and spuds and chard too.. enough for myself and some to give to the neighbours.

There's talk of herd immunity these days, once a certain % of the country is exposed to the virus. Well, maybe if a sufficient % of the country took a bit of initiative for themselves and their neighbours, we could to a much greater extent than now, be immune/indifferent to whatever Keeling's or other food producers are doing and we could reduce our dependency on them.

Another thing I'm taking from the thread is that you can kill with kindness. The eur350 is an example. On the surface, it's great. Long term it is another nail in the coffin of the Irish economy. If you don't need it, don't take it seems to be a concept lost on a lot of people. Many people are using the money for savings, FFS. Shameless. That sort of short term me feinism will hurt the country in the long run. The state is encouraging helplessness here.. it's killing initiative with kindness. Regardless of any rights or wrongs of it, the Bulgarian workers are showing initiative. They will gain more financially --and in terms of self-worth-- than some smug person taking the gov payment and sitting on their bum playing PS.

I lost my job too, but I'd rather eat me own leg than put the hand out. First, I don't want money from a state I don't have that much respect for. Second, it is selfish and unpatriotic to put my own desires before that of the country. I've had a pretty hungry few weeks, but I persisted and found a part-time job. It paid less than the covid payment. But then I found another part-time job. Now I'm doign better than I was before all this started. I realise all people can't work from home right now, and that just taking the payment is easy.. but where is the initiative and desire for self-sufficiency?

We need to look for ways to reduce dependence on foreign workers. Fruit-picking robots get better all the time. We seem to have lots of money to throw around.. the gov should increase Irish self-sufficiency by investing in automation in the agrifood sector.

There's more, but I've waffled enough already.

risteard7 · 17-04-2020 05:15AM

Ok so, we'll send them back and see how many of the pampered Irish will give up their €350 a week to apply and go fruit picking.

everlast75 · 17-04-2020 05:17AM

I'm late to this discussion. Unfortunately, given the way social media is now less than 24 hours after a story breaks its - you're late!

What exactly is the issue here?

A) That people are being brought in when Irish people can't travel?

That the workers are bringing in a risk for others here?
C) That jobs are being offered to foreigners over Irish?
D) That they are exploiting foreigners

A) and B2) aren't an issue if they are being quarantined, as Keelings say. I've no reason to doubt them as the repercussions would be devastating. I get the knee jerk reaction here of seeing other people on a plane when we can't and being annoyed. But that's not the point here.

C) Had they advertised here before bringing them in? If so, what was the uptake on the position? We don't know. Is it the case that the Irish never wanted that job? If so, has that materially changed. My feeling is the vast, vast majority would not want to take it for four reasons
i) It is back-breaking work
ii) It is not well paid
iii) there are already government subsidies in place for those who lost their job
iv) it poses a risk of contracting COVID19

D) They are exploiting foreigners. This is questionable on a number of fronts.
i) Every workplace minimises cost. Every single one. Look into where your smart phone is manufactured. Look at where Pennys get their clothes made. Outsourcing happens in every business. It is not pretty but it is a fact of life. Is anyone making a stand against any other business on that front?
ii) Are workers being exploited when they are paid wages commensurate with what they are paid in their own Country?

The point here is that it appears a lot of the outrage seems to come from a place of frustration rather than an informed one.

Polar101 · 17-04-2020 05:18AM

I'm curious, if Keeling hired 189 Irish people from all around the country and transported them to the "strawberry picker barracks" - would people still complain about the virus spreading and proclaim they're not going to buy any strawberries?

12trackmind · 17-04-2020 05:20AM

risteard7 wrote: »

Ok so, we'll send them back and see how many of the pampered Irish will give up their €350 a week to apply and go fruit picking.

I don't think they should be sent back. Apparently, we are too helpless to grow our own separate from Keelings (or to even imagine a way of life that is more self-sufficient than it is helpless consumer) so, for now, we need the Bulgarians.

Still waters · 17-04-2020 05:48AM

risteard7 wrote: »

Ok so, we'll send them back and see how many of the pampered Irish will give up their €350 a week to apply and go fruit picking.

The irish aren't pampered, we have a highly educated, highly skilled well paid workforce who due to circumstances beyond our control have had to sit on the bench to allow our health/essential services to cope with this virus, more than likely a large percentage of the workforce will start to return to work in the next few weeks as the restrictions are lifted.

Who would pick your fruit and vegetables when Mike from accounts or Mary the solicitor gets the call to go back to work and leaves keelings with no pickers, why would keelings change what works just to accommodate a bunch of whingers crying over the foreigners coming in and taking jobs that we wouldn't do anyway

If picking fruit and veg paid the sort of money that covered the cost of living in Ireland we would see the cost of produce rise dramatically, something a lot of people take for granted

Sam Hain · 17-04-2020 05:48AM

Graham wrote: »

I'm sure at some point you might actually argue a point rather than having a dig at me personally.

Now how do you like them apples?

12trackmind · 17-04-2020 05:55AM

Still waters wrote: »

The irish aren't pampered,

Compared to who? We are pampered compared to the vast majority of the world's population. Don't know how good we have it, more like!

we have a highly educated, highly skilled well paid workforce who

We're too educated for manual work, is it? Education and not being afraid to get your hands dirty are not mutually exclusive.

Still waters · 17-04-2020 06:06AM

12trackmind wrote: »

Compared to who? We are pampered compared to the vast majority of the world's population. Don't know how good we have it, more like!

We're too educated for manual work, is it? Education and not being afraid to get your hands dirty are not mutually exclusive.

If you want to call a high standard of living pampered go right ahead, 2 generations ago we were a very rural agricultural island who by hard work and a high standard of education have become one of the richest countries in the world. Pets are pampered, people who work 40 hours a week to maintain a comfortable way of life are not.

I never said we're too educated for manual labour, why would you twist my words to suit your agenda

17-04-2020 06:23AM

Probably been mentioned loads of times already but it is essential that seasonal workers get here and do what they always do, i.e harvest food, and it's not just strawberries that seasonal workers harvest, its other more staple foods too.

Otherwise the food does not get harvested, and then there is a supply issue, and prices go up, and the last thing we need during this situation is price inflation on basic food stuffs.

zerosugarbuzz · 17-04-2020 06:28AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Probably been mentioned loads of times already but it is essential that seasonal workers get here and do what they always do, i.e harvest food, and it's not just strawberries that seasonal workers harvest, its other more staple foods too.

Otherwise the food does not get harvested, and then there is a supply issue, and prices go up, and the last thing we need during this situation is price inflation on basic food stuffs.

By that rationale it is also essential that we have a functioning economy, so the majority of the rest of us should also be back in work. There was no Need to fly in anyone at this time when the residents of the country are stuck in their houses.

lawred2 · 17-04-2020 06:30AM

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

By that rationale it is also essential that we have a functioning economy, so the majority of the rest of us should also be back in work. There was no Need to fly in anyone at this time when the residents of the country are stuck in their houses.

Are we not eating food while we're in our houses?

12trackmind · 17-04-2020 06:34AM

Still waters wrote: »

If you want to call a high standard of living pampered go right ahead, 2 generations ago we were a very rural agricultural island who by hard work and a high standard of education have become one of the richest countries in the world. Pets are pampered, people who work 40 hours a week to maintain a comfortable way of life are not.

Well this is what happens again and again throughout the hiostory of countries, companies and families... there are the generations who put in hard work and build things up.. then the pampered sons and daughters come along and they don't appreciate what was built up and they have no reason to know what hard work is. These later generations are the ones that waste what their forefathers and mothers built up.

Hard work is not a bad thing that is to be left behind. Nor is it some romantic thing that we supposed to appreciate and forget.

It's a necessity.

Put it this way, I'd be embarassed to show this thread to friends from Mexico for the teasing I'd get. Pampered, unappreciative and workshy is what they'd call this mentality.

40 hours? That's hardly work at all

I never said we're too educated for manual labour, why would you twist my words to suit your agenda

No agenda. If I had an agenda on this topic, I wouldn't be wasting it on boards. I'd be writing policy documents.

No desire to twist words. I quoted your exact words and asked a question. I sensed, perhaps incorrectly you will no doubt tell me, a snobbery in your post about Ireland and the Irish and the hours we work and the kind of work we do. We are some of the most privileged people on the face of the planet, but if we lose the ability to work hard and do what is necessary we're fecked in the long run.

Atlantic Dawn · 17-04-2020 06:35AM

I see there's a Blue Air flight from Bacau, Romania due in at 1.15pm today, will that have 189 workers brought over to harvest caviar eggs here on it?

17-04-2020 06:38AM

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

By that rationale it is also essential that we have a functioning economy, so the majority of the rest of us should also be back in work. There was no Need to fly in anyone at this time when the residents of the country are stuck in their houses.

So your issue is entirely with the part of flying people in to help keep things afloat? Presumably you don't think additional nurses/doctors etc. should be moving around either? Like this for example:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0326/1126542-doctors-returning-to-ireland-coming-out-of-retirement/

These are healthcare workers, so are much more likely to have been in contact with the virus than fruit pickers.

Also - If Keelings rang me up and said 'KKV, we've a job there for you' I'd say 'no, you're grand, thanks because I, like many others, have a job that I'm awaiting to resume. I won't risk losing €350 a week to pick fruit, and Keelings won't risk me saying 'sorry lads, my work is back on, take care'.

This story is the biggest non-story I have ever heard. All the whingers that would never, ever go out and do the job themselves, giving out that other people are willing to do it. :rolleyes:

Optimalprimerib · 17-04-2020 06:48AM

Notdeco wrote: »

So a lot of Irish are without jobs now, and would love to get outside and work.

Yet people are being flown into the country to work?

Yea what could go wrong?
Keelings are going to pay the price for this imo.

Not a hope would the Irish take that offer. They would be happy with the free 350 in their pocket.

Still waters · 17-04-2020 06:50AM

12trackmind wrote: »

Well this is what happens again and again throughout the hiostory of countries, companies and families... there are the generations who put in hard work and build things up.. then the pampered sons and daughters come along and they don't appreciate what was built up and they have no reason to know what hard work is. These later generations are the ones that waste what their forefathers and mothers built up.

Hard work is not a bad thing that is to be left behind. Nor is it some romantic thing that we supposed to appreciate and forget.

It's a necessity.

Put it this way, I'd be embarassed to show this thread to friends from Mexico for the teasing I'd get. Pampered, unappreciative and workshy is what they'd call this mentality.

40 hours? That's hardly work at all

No agenda. If I had an agenda on this topic, I wouldn't be wasting it on boards. I'd be writing policy documents.

No desire to twist words. I quoted your exact words and asked a question. I sensed, perhaps incorrectly you will no doubt tell me, a snobbery in your post about Ireland and the Irish and the hours we work and the kind of work we do. We are some of the most privileged people on the face of the planet, but if we lose the ability to work hard and do what is necessary we're fecked in the long run.

40 hours is a good work/life balance, some people work more some less, i work between 40-50 hours a week and i have a moderately comfortable lifestyle just the way I like it

Why do your Mexican friends think the Irish are work shy? Don't ever be embarrassed by success, tell your Mexican "friends " if they work hard then their sons and daughters can reap the benefits of their hard work

We are some of the most privileged people on the planet, that doesn't just get handed to us, its taken generations to build a strong thriving society such as our where people from all over the world want to come to to study, work and holiday and i know plenty retired Europeans and Americans who have moved here simply because we have a very relaxed comfortable way of life, it's a great place to live for sure

osarusan · 17-04-2020 06:51AM

everlast75 wrote: »

The point here is that it appears a lot of the outrage seems to come from a place of frustration rather than an informed one.

Some people just love to whine, and will look for something, anything, that allows them to do that.

Bob24 · 17-04-2020 06:53AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

We're in a fast changing dynamic situation with this pandemic, no one would have believed the situation we're in now, the contracts for workers would have to have been signed long before the pandemic, or could be part of a large multi-year contract with an agency to provide workers.
To expect a company to locally hire almost 200 workers, interview them, set them up for tax, payroll etc. would have taken months, and fruit picking has to be done quickly and at the right time.

Those are just excuses to be honest. The situation we are in is hundred of thousands of people just had their active employment contract suspended or terminated with no question asked. So even if future contracts had been signed months ago it doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been changed. Plus as you said the situation has drastically changed vs a month ago - the company even had to privately arrange a flight for those workers and will have to put them on some sort of quarantine - those are the crazy times we live in.

I don’t believe there aren’t 200 people currently unemployed in the country who could be mobilised quickly to do those jobs if all parties potentially involved were showing good will (employer, workforce already in the country, government). I also understand bringing people from abroad could have been the path of least resistance for the company, but as I said doing this at a time whereby the population’s movements are severely restricted due to health concerns and a massive part of the workforce just became unemployed isn’t a sign of a well functioning country.

Idbatterim · 17-04-2020 06:54AM

risteard7 wrote: »

Ok so, we'll send them back and see how many of the pampered Irish will give up their €350 a week to apply and go fruit picking.

Why should they pick the fruit, it's the long term wasters , who have never worked getting the e203 you should have an issue with , any one on e350 isnt a waster

listermint · 17-04-2020 06:54AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So your issue is entirely with the part of flying people in to help keep things afloat? Presumably you don't think additional nurses/doctors etc. should be moving around either? Like this for example:

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0326/1126542-doctors-returning-to-ireland-coming-out-of-retirement/

These are healthcare workers, so are much more likely to have been in contact with the virus than fruit pickers.

Also - If Keelings rang me up and said 'KKV, we've a job there for you' I'd say 'no, you're grand, thanks because I, like many others, have a job that I'm awaiting to resume. I won't risk losing €350 a week to pick fruit, and Keelings won't risk me saying 'sorry lads, my work is back on, take care'.

This story is the biggest non-story I have ever heard. All the whingers that would never, ever go out and do the job themselves, giving out that other people are willing to do it. :rolleyes:

It's not whingers... It's specific source. You know where his tripe originates there's another thread here about them . Little minion's sent out to video them coming in the airport. Grifters going to grift. Racism dressed up as health safety. These morons don't care for details like food is essential or these are seasonal workers that come all the time or that Irish people won't do this job no none of that matters .

Grifters going to grift.

weldoninhio · 17-04-2020 06:56AM

normanoffside wrote: »

Keelings confirmed all workers will do 14 days of isolation before being allowed to work

https://twitter.com/daily_stendhal/status/1250854659167830019

14 days of restricted movement is not the same as 14 days isolation.

17-04-2020 07:00AM

Surely the obvious thing for anyone with isdue here is organise a boycott of any/all keelings products

If one of the workers coughs onto the fruit,how long deos virus live on that surface??

12trackmind · 17-04-2020 07:01AM

Still waters wrote: »

Why do your Mexican friends think the Irish are work shy? Don't ever be embarrassed by success, tell your Mexican "friends " if they work hard then their sons and daughters can reap the benefits of their hard work

I don't regard going beyond manual labour as a success though, that's probably where we differ. We can be educated and still do manual work. I'm ashamed of the mentality where leaving manual labor behind is regarded as progress.

I don't understand the quotation marks around friends, btw.

I know for a fact there are highly-educated people all over the countryside in Ireland growing their own fruit and veg for themselves and neighbours as a matter of basic cop on and self-sufficiency. This certainly seems to be something country people are more capable of than city dweller and I say that as a Dub! We can do both. Education and manual labor are not mutually exclusive.

we have a very relaxed comfortable way of life, it's a great place to live for sure

100% agree with you on this, compared to the rest of the planet.

weldoninhio · 17-04-2020 07:01AM

declanflynn wrote: »

A lot of Irish wouldn't do that type of work (for €40 a day, which is what the Bulgarians are being paid)

Fixed that for you. And quite rightly Irish people wouldn't work for that, it's below minimum wage and exploitative. Damned Irish :rolleyes:

Idbatterim · 17-04-2020 07:02AM

The long term unemployed wasters up that neck f the woods coukdnt do it ? They probably couldn't be around food that wasn't fried ...

osarusan · 17-04-2020 07:04AM

Polar101 wrote: »

I'm curious, if Keeling hired 189 Irish people from all around the country and transported them to the "strawberry picker barracks" - would people still complain about the virus spreading and proclaim they're not going to buy any strawberries?

Excellent question.

everlast75 · 17-04-2020 07:05AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Fixed that for you. And quite rightly Irish people wouldn't work for that, it's below minimum wage and exploitative. Damned Irish :rolleyes:

So is the outrage here not selective, in that we have a company outsourcing to reduce costs, like thousands of others?

17-04-2020 07:05AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Fixed that for you. And quite rightly Irish people wouldn't work for that, it's below minimum wage and exploitative. Damned Irish :rolleyes:

Yes your dead right no Irish person would work for below minimum wage.

But we also want cheap food on our shop shelves, and there is no way that can happen without the producers using the employment methods they have been using for years.

Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

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