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Bulgarian workers/Keelings - read OP (threadbans listed)

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Comments

  • #302
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,834 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Graham wrote: »
    I don't think it's economic.
    It's essential.

    I wonder how many of those getting upset about the fruit pickers coming in will be banging down the doors of the local Lidl/Aldi and fighting over the last bag of spuds or loaf of fresh bread when the impact from lack of farm workers in the EU becomes more of an issue in the coming months?


  • #303
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,912 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    Graham wrote: »
    I don't think it's economic.

    It's essential.


    From the Financial Times 3 days ago.


    Josef Schmidhuber, deputy director of the UN Food and Agriculture Organization’s trade and markets division, said: “In developed countries which rely on immigrant labour, if the [coronavirus] crisis lasts for two months, the impact will be very severe.”

    The numbers involved are substantial:

    France is short of about 200,000 workers until the end of May
    Spain has a shortfall of 70,000 to 80,000.
    Italy needs about 250,000 seasonal workers in the next two months
    the UK normally receives 70,000 to 80,000 over the season
    Germany 300,000

    Developed countries don’t rely on immigrant labour. Immigrant labour relies on developed countries.


  • #304
    Scotty #
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Scotty #


    ted1 wrote: »
    Sounds pretty much like how slaves worked. Read what you said and tell me who that is allowed in modern Ireland.

    Because you leave lives beside it for so long you have become blind.
    Err it sounds nothing like how slaves work. Slaves are FORCED to work for NOTHING. These are OFFERED work for PAYMENT. I don't see the similarity.

    Did you know, car salesmen in this country work....... ON COMMISION :eek::eek::eek:. Perhaps you think that's slave labour too?


  • #305
    Thumpette
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Thumpette


    My first reaction to this was outrage but on reflection I am much more sympathetic to keeling's. The alternative to letting the berries rot on their vines. I was a hiring manager for years trying to recruit people at low but reasonable wages for call centre work. Usually around 40% of the number we asked in for interview showed up- most of the others just wanted proof of an interview invite for social welfare. It was so frustrating. I do think they'd struggle to fill the roles here- particularly with as motivated and hard working workforce as they are getting in Bulgaria. I'm still working but if I wasn't I don't think I'd leave my child every day to do back breaking work on a temp contract which involves me increasing my risk of exposure when I could be at home for 350 a week. The outrage is all well and good but who here would do it- and if you would- have at it and apply!

    I do hope they are heading advice in regards isolating


  • #306
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    Danno wrote: »
    I didn't imply there was currently any commercial flights.

    For much of March when there was commercial flights, there were virtually no restrictions - for a virus that had to have come in on a flight or a ferry.

    Secondly, did you see the Dublin Airport footage of these 189 going through arrivals? No 2m social distancing at all.

    My point about this whole debacle is the lax implementation of restrictions for foreign national workers arriving, while our own citizens are having their shopping bags checked. (perhaps theyre making sure we bought Keelings?)

    Seems overtly lopsided, wouldn't you agree?

    All I can here is a shrill whatabout BS moan when I read this.


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  • #307
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,002 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Scotty # wrote: »
    OK, Keelings don't only produce strawberries. The process a whole range of fruit. Are we to deem all fruit unnecessary? What about vegetables? They also process a huge range of veg.

    We have 800,000 staff available. Ryanair and Arr Lingus alone have several thousand staff in the swords area that are available. They may pick slower but you know what, they can use more pickers. And the staff will be getting a Covid subsidy


  • #308
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »
    So let me get this, persons ordinarily resident in the State (as the legislation reads) are not permitted to leave their place of residence under threat of prosecution but anyone from overseas not ordinarily resident in the State can freely enter and exit and transit through its ports and airports and move about within the territory of the State with no such restrictions?

    Just who or what exactly is this "lockdown" facilitating?

    No, that's not it. It's not helpful to pretend that is it.

    Food is essential, people are being allowed in to help secure the food supply.


  • #309
    bigroad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭bigroad


    Scotty # wrote: »
    Err it sounds nothing like how slaves work. Slaves are FORCED to work for NOTHING. These are OFFERED work for PAYMENT. I don't see the similarity.

    Did you know, car salesmen in this country work....... ON COMMISION :eek::eek::eek:. Perhaps you think that's slave labour too?
    They get a basic plus commission in my experience.


  • #310
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Scotty # wrote: »
    You clearly don't understand why these workers had to be brought in. Food must be produced, even strawberries. They're as important as any other particular food. If you don't have a local workforce, then one must be brought in. Keeling aren't the first and won't be the last to do it.

    Yeah, I'm the ignorant one here.

    Thanks for educating me.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #311
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Elliot Some Stepson wrote: »
    Developed countries don’t rely on immigrant labour. Immigrant labour relies on developed countries.

    Easy to say while the shelves are full.


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  • #312
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Some reporter better ask questions about this at tomorrow's press conference.

    Sigh :rolleyes:


  • #313
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    Do we need Irish strawberries more than we need more houses? Not all food stuffs are the same, people go without Irish strawberries for most of the year.

    European agriculture is short 800,000+ pickers.

    Don't mistake this for a strawberry issue.


  • #314
    Scotty #
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Scotty #


    Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »
    So let me get this, persons ordinarily resident in the State (as the legislation reads) are not permitted to leave their place of residence under threat of prosecution but anyone from overseas not ordinarily resident in the State can freely enter and exit and transit through its ports and airports and move about within the territory of the State with no such restrictions?

    Just who or what exactly is this "lockdown" facilitating?
    All wrong. Residents and migrant labour are bound by the exact same rules. Persons are allowed travel in connection with essential labour. Food production being essential labour. They're not over here to go clubbin' up and down the country. They will reside and work within Keelings property.


  • #315
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,231 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    ted1 wrote: »
    We have 800,000 staff available. Ryanair and Arr Lingus alone have several thousand staff in the swords area that are available. They may pick slower but you know what, they can use more pickers. And the staff will be getting a Covid subsidy

    Best of luck with that.


  • #316
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    Do we need Irish strawberries more than we need more houses? Not all food stuffs are the same, people go without Irish strawberries for most of the year.

    They are according to the legislation.


  • #317
    mooseknunkle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mooseknunkle


    Scotty # wrote: »
    All wrong. Residents and migrant labour are bound by the exact same rules. Persons are allowed travel in connection with essential labour. Food production being essential labour. They're not over here to go clubbin' up and down the country. They will reside and work within Keelings property.

    Are you working for Keelings?,you seem to be taking any criticism of them very personally.


  • #318
    Scotty #
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Scotty #


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm the ignorant one here.

    Thanks for educating me.
    Well perhaps you could educate me then? Could you provide me with a list of specific foods that are essential? Actually, just one will do. One food that is essential?

    I'll wait.


  • #319
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    ted1 wrote: »
    We have 800,000 staff available. Ryanair and Arr Lingus alone have several thousand staff in the swords area that are available. They may pick slower but you know what, they can use more pickers. And the staff will be getting a Covid subsidy

    How many of the 800000 applied for the job?


  • #320
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »
    So let me get this, persons ordinarily resident in the State (as the legislation reads) are not permitted to leave their place of residence under threat of prosecution but anyone from overseas not ordinarily resident in the State can freely enter and exit and transit through its ports and airports and move about within the territory of the State with no such restrictions?

    Just who or what exactly is this "lockdown" facilitating?


    Ya might want to check what legislation you are reading.



    You can leave your home.
    You are supposed to stay within 2km of it though for exercise purposes.
    You can go further if you need to go to a shop and that shop is more than 2km away. However you can't go to the Tesco 20miles away because you prefer it to the one beside your house.


    Irish people who are abroad can also return. And truck drivers who are bringing in your food can also enter the country with their trucks.




    The Bulgarians will be subject to the same restrictions as anyone else. They will be limited to 2km unless they need to go further for essential work.


  • #321
    quartz1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭quartz1


    No Journalist though it worth their while asking about this at this evening's Press conference.


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  • #322
    Danno
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,912 ✭✭✭Danno


    amadangomor wrote: »
    All I can here is a shrill whatabout BS moan when I read this.



  • #323
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Danno wrote: »
    The 737-800 seats 162 passengers in a two-class layout or 189 passengers in a one-class layout. Most of Ryanair planes are... 737-800s

    Keelings admitted on their press release that exactly, wait for it... 189 workers arrived today.

    The fact that these folks were packed in on a flight CHARTERED by Keelings is the issue.

    They weren't even on the ground in Dublin and they have already broken restrictions.

    If you buy the rest of the muck that these 189 folks will be isolated for fourteen days before picking a berry, you're gullible.

    They'll be picking berries in just over six and a half hours time. (7am).

    I've no issue with bringing in seasonal workers for this task, but the company has flouted much of the Governments health advice.

    They will be, I know from a friend from eastern Europe that this is the case.
    He will be flying to another country and when he lands in that city he will have 14 days in a hotel in that city in quarantine, then he has to get a ship to an island after that for where the job is and its another 14 days quarantine on the island before he can go on the ship where his job is.

    Employers are being super careful.

    People are just looking for the worse and blowing it all out of proportion.


  • #324
    all about the mane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭all about the mane


    quartz1 wrote: »
    No Journalist though it worth their while asking about this at this evening's Press conference.

    Because it’s a non-issue. People are being brought in to do work that people here won’t do. The work is essential. Simple


  • #325
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,596 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Scotty # wrote: »
    All wrong. Residents and migrant labour are bound by the exact same rules. Persons are allowed travel in connection with essential labour. Food production being essential labour. They're not over here to go clubbin' up and down the country. They will reside and work within Keelings property.

    Are they employed as PAYE workers by Keelings?


  • #326
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    Better off having migrant pickers living isolated from the community than have workers from all over the vicinity going home to families and possibly vulnerable people.

    They will will be quarantined for 14 days and are here to work and make money not to socialise.


  • #327
    Melanchthon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    Graham wrote: »
    European agriculture is short 800,000+ pickers.

    Don't mistake this for a strawberry issue.

    But this particular issue is a strawberry issue, it's a product thats not available for most of the year anyway and society doesn't collapse. It's not like say Brennan's workers or fruit and veg wholesalers it's a product people do without a lot of the time anyway!

    Son't you see why this rubs people the wrong way, importing labour when there is massive unemployment, as other posters pointed out due to passenger numbers and aircraft involved likely no social distancing guidelines being observed at a minimum on the transit to Ireland, Irish people having serious in jobs that are no more of a risk factor than these pickers have lost their jobs that would pumped a lot more money into the Irish economy than these guys as it's a sacrifice that has to be made for the greater good, basically this doesn't make much sense.

    Edit:and how are they enforcing quarentine, if it's in crowded accommodation in Ireland it's going to spread among the pickers themselves because I doubt the company is paying for them to have individual bedsits with cooking facilities.


  • #328
    Scotty #
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Scotty #


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    Are you working for Keelings?,you seem to be taking any criticism of them very personally.
    Nope, never worked for them myself but being from the area I have plenty of family and friends that have and some that still do.

    I think they've been treated unfairly. They had no choice but to import their labour for the summer as they do every other year. As I said earlier, this is not just about keeping strawberries on the shelves. Keelings are responsible for the vast majority of our fruit and veg. People don't seem willing to accept that though.


  • #329
    Scotty #
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Scotty #


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Are they employed as PAYE workers by Keelings?
    Of course!


  • #330
    mgn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭mgn


    RobertKK wrote: »
    They will be, I know from a friend from eastern Europe that this is the case.
    He will be flying to another country and when he lands in that city he will have 14 days in a hotel in that city in quarantine, then he has to get a ship to an island after that for where the job is and its another 14 days quarantine on the island before he can go on the ship where his job is.

    Employers are being super careful.

    People are just looking for the worse and blowing it all out of proportion.

    So your friend in Europe has 28 days off between jobs in the peak time of the season, staying in hotels, maybe its not a bad paying job after all.


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  • #331
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    But this particular issue is a strawberry issue, it's a product thats not available for most of the year anyway and society doesn't collapse. It's not like say Brennan's workers or fruit and veg wholesalers it's a product people do without a lot of the time anyway!

    It's not a strawberry issue though.

    Whether they realise it or not, people are essentially arguing that government should start to decide which food products are essential.

    That is not a good thing.

    Do you think government should start to decide what food products are essential?


This discussion has been closed.
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