Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

banie01 · 14-04-2020 1:01pm

The Stillsuits and Atreides uniforms, aswell as the frigates in the background of the Caladan shot are all very reminiscent of the designs used in the Dune Encyclopedia.
It is non-canon, but it was approved by FH and he even wore the foreword(that thoroughly rendered it non-canon)

The more I see, the more as an avid lover of the book am looking forward to the release.

ixoy · 14-04-2020 1:15pm

The big test will be the sandworm. It's going to be very difficult to get its size and majesty right (and of course, we'll have some people claiming possibly how it's ripping off the worm from Star Wars...).

banie01 · 14-04-2020 1:17pm

ixoy wrote: »

The big test will be the sandworm. It's going to be very difficult to get its size and majesty right (and of course, we'll have some people claiming possibly how it's ripping off the worm from Star Wars...).

Those people need to be detained in reeducation camps and trained in the way...
Luckily!
Some say, Arrakis was created to train the faithful!

Tony EH · 14-04-2020 1:30pm

It's early days, I know, but I think I'll miss Lynch's baroque look with this version. I got a distinct SYFY feeling off of those Vanity Fair photos. And to be honest, I'm not that pushed on the idea of Timothée Chalamet as Paul.

banie01 · 14-04-2020 1:34pm

Tony EH wrote: »

It's early days, I know, but I think I'll miss Lynch's baroque look with this version. I got a distinct SYFY feeling off of those Vanity Fair photos. And to be honest, I'm not that pushed on the idea of Timothée Chalamet as Paul.

Dont miss it

Just rewatch it, with its flaws and all!
it really is a visual masterpiece for all its flawed story and arc.

I'd love to see the full Lynch vision, however long it runs.
Maybe the new movie will spark enough interest to spark a deal to get him to sign off on a directors cut?

The "armoured" soldiers look an interesting take on shields.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 14-04-2020 1:37pm

Woke bull**** seeped into the film with a black woman playing a white mans role ffs

pixelburp · 14-04-2020 1:41pm

Oh god FFS. Not this again.

Liet Kynes is not a major character. Barely a character in the first place beyond "Atreides factotum goes native". God forbid we just enjoy the rich production design without getting knickers in a twist about secondary characters getting switched.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 14-04-2020 1:51pm

what do ya mean he's not a major character he's Chanis' father. Grandfather to the God emperor Leto II.

mikhail · 14-04-2020 1:51pm

pixelburp wrote: »

"Atreides factotum goes native"

Does he even work for them? I thought he was an imperial official. She now; as you say, it hardly matters.

It's a story I expect to attract some criticism anyway. It'll likely be called the whatever the opposite of woke is for the enormous soft power women hold in it, and woke if it gives any kind of weight to Jessica and the Bene Gesserit. The same folks won't bat an eyelid at the hereditary aristocracy, because the gender stuff is almost an unconscious reflex at this stage. And that's before we consider the "cultural appropriation", pro-jihad message, and abundant drug use. I'm not planning on reading anything outside of boards on this one. The internet sucks sometimes.

pixelburp · 14-04-2020 1:59pm

Dufflecoat Fanny wrote: »

what do ya mean he's not a major character he's Chanis' father. Grandfather to the God emperor Leto II.

In the scheme of things, Kynes has no real effect on the plot or story IMO. The only functional change here is Liet becomes Chani's mother and is grandmother to Leto II. Hardly worth hoisting the pitchforks over. Nothing of value is changed here.

Tony EH · 14-04-2020 2:04pm

banie01 wrote: »

Dont miss it
Just rewatch it, with its flaws and all!
it really is a visual masterpiece for all its flawed story and arc.

I'd love to see the full Lynch vision, however long it runs.
Maybe the new movie will spark enough interest to spark a deal to get him to sign off on a directors cut?

The "armoured" soldiers look an interesting take on shields.

I have it on the shelf, but I've not watched it in years. Don't think the Blu ray was ever even in the machine.

I have a love hate relationship with Lynch's 'Dune'. On the one hand, there are parts to it that I love and I will always associate with the story. The Atreides, the Harkonen, Shaddam and the Bene Gesserit (as well as their locations) are all excellently done and well cast. The scene with the Spacing Guild coming to talk with the Emperor is fantastic. I just cannot think of Dune and not see that.

But, for me, it all falls apart when the film gets to Arrakis. The movie becomes a bit of a messy joke and by the end I just don't care any more and want it to end.

Tony EH · 14-04-2020 2:07pm

pixelburp wrote: »

In the scheme of things, Kynes has no real effect on the plot or story IMO. The only functional change here is Liet becomes Chani's mother and is grandmother to Leto II. Hardly worth hoisting the pitchforks over. Nothing of value is changed here.

The issue is that there's a change in the first place though. I don't particularly care myself, but it's unnecessary and silly.

pixelburp · 14-04-2020 2:10pm

Tony EH wrote: »

The issue is that there's a change in the first place though. It's unnecessary and silly.

Big difference between "unnecessary" and raging about "woke bullsh*t seeping" because a small character has been flipped. It's a small little nod of inclusion, not really worth getting worked up over. Has no material effect on ones ability to enjoy the story (assuming it's any good), and for those who appreciate representation, is a nod towards that. I'm a white guy and don't feel particularly aggrieved Liete Effin' Kynes has been gender & race flipped.

God, there's no way Star Trek would get made in 2020, the sh•tstorm of aggrieved folk pouring their anger into that would be unreal.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 14-04-2020 2:11pm

Tony EH wrote: »

The issue is that there's a change in the first place though. I don't particularly care myself, but it's unnecessary and silly.

it's a gesture outside of the film, you might aswell put a can of coke in a scene.

banie01 · 14-04-2020 2:12pm

Tony EH wrote: »

But, for me, it all falls apart when the film gets to Arrakis. The movie becomes a bit of a messy joke and by the end I just don't care any more and want it to end.

The shift in the story when it hits Arrakis is jarring alright!
The film as released is a hot mess.
But Patrick Stewart firing space gun whilst holding a pug

will always live long in the memory!

The soundtrack is absolutely seminal tho IMO, prog rock at its finest.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 14-04-2020 2:15pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Big difference between "unnecessary" and raging about "woke bullsh*t seeping" because a small character has been flipped. It's a small little nod of inclusion, not really worth getting worked up over. Has no material effect on ones ability to enjoy the story (assuming it's any good), and for those who appreciate representation, is a nod towards that. I'm a white guy and don't feel particularly aggrieved Liete Effin' Kynes has been gender & race flipped.

God, there's no way Star Trek would get made in 2020, the sh•tstorm of aggrieved folk pouring their anger into that would be unreal.

how many flips nods would you tolerate i wonder until it becomes barbarella? whatever your nonchalant feelings I'm far from raging i'm just disappointed

pixelburp · 14-04-2020 2:15pm

Dufflecoat Fanny wrote: »

it's a gesture outside of the film, you might aswell put a can of coke in a scene.

How is Kyne's gender or race essential to the plot of the story?

You couldn't swap Paul because the whole point - IIRC and it's a while since I read the book - the fact he was a male was a Big Deal because Jessica defied the orders of the Bene Gesserit. It'd literally break a bunch of arcs.

So no, not the same as a coke can. If the story doesn't break under the change, then the change doesn't matter.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 14-04-2020 2:17pm

banie01 wrote: »

The shift in the story when it hits Arrakis is jarring alright!
The film as released is a hot mess.
But Patrick Stewart firing space gun whilst holding a pug will always live long in the memory!

The soundtrack is absolutely seminal tho IMO, prog rock at its finest.

I'm trying to find the extended edition made by fans online here it's very good. Brian Eno and Toto what a pairing savage soundtrack

Dufflecoat Fanny · 14-04-2020 2:26pm

pixelburp wrote: »

How is Kyne's gender or race essential to the plot of the story?

You couldn't swap Paul because the whole point - IIRC and it's a while since I read the book - the fact he was a male was a Big Deal because Jessica defied the orders of the Bene Gesserit. It'd literally break a bunch of arcs.

So no, not the same as a coke can. If the story doesn't break under the change, then the change doesn't matter.

have you read the ten books? I have and it makes a huge difference.

MJohnston · 14-04-2020 2:29pm

Tony EH wrote: »

The issue is that there's a change in the first place though. I don't particularly care myself, but it's unnecessary and silly.

Love you snowflakes, never change with your whining

Anyway. Holy **** what a cast. I feel like I'm on Arrakis because I've got no bodily fluids left looking at those photos. I hope Oscar Isaac and Rebecca Ferguson kiss.

splashthecash · 14-04-2020 2:30pm

I'm coming at this from a fresh set of eyes - I've never seen the Lynch film, and only recently finished the book...really looking forward to this movie, and happy that they are splitting it - where do you expect the first film will end and the second pick up from?

The casting is superb IMO - it started coming out as I was reading through the book and these actors slotted into my visions very easily. I love Denis's films anyway but this is one of my have to watch films of 2020 (fingers crossed in 2020 that is!!)

re the sandworms - reading the book, I found it hard to visualize how big these actually are? Are we talking bus size or bigger - I recall them being very big from the book but will be very interested to see how these turn out on screen and how the size will be represented

Tony EH · 14-04-2020 2:34pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Big difference between "unnecessary" and raging about "woke bullsh*t seeping" because a small character has been flipped. It's a small little nod of inclusion, not really worth getting worked up over. Has no material effect on ones ability to enjoy the story (assuming it's any good), and for those who appreciate representation, is a nod towards that. I'm a white guy and don't feel particularly aggrieved Liete Effin' Kynes has been gender & race flipped.

God, there's no way Star Trek would get made in 2020, the sh•tstorm of aggrieved folk pouring their anger into that would be unreal.

There shouldn't be any "representation" Pix, it's a nonsensical concept. If you need to be represented by something or someone in a film or a story, you're living your life wrong. It's a wholly worthless pat on the head by corporate interests.

People should represent themselves.

I'm a white bloke from Dublin and I've had little to no "representation" on the screen for the vast majority of my life...and I don't give a shite. It doesn't matter.

Nothing represents me in movies, even "Irish" people (who for the most part were drunks or the comic relief). But that doesn't mean that I can't watch films - an occupation I've sunk a ridiculous amount of time and effort into over the years.

You watch a story unfold...it's simple.

But I can certainly understand why people get upset with silly gender/race swaps of previously established characters in familiar stories.

pixelburp · 14-04-2020 2:35pm

Getting back to things that matter: it is a really spectacular cast. Has something of old-school cinema about it, the big sweeping ensemble of big hitters.

I wonder if the end of this Variety series there might be ... ya know ... a trailer?

banie01 · 14-04-2020 2:40pm

Dufflecoat Fanny wrote: »

have you read the ten books? I have and it makes a huge difference.

10?

Anyone seeking to include anything that BH and KA "added" to the Dune canon needs to sod off IMHO.
Even if their books were included, the number would be over 20, only 6 of which have any merit and those would be FH's.

There are 6, the prequels and sequels are poorly written trash that would hardly have been published if BH had not been in control of the literary estate.

Changing the gender of Kynes is incidental, he/she was a framing device and a way of introducing the Atreides to the Fremen and of giving hope that Paul was the Lisan al Gaib.

the family ties stay the same, and as fremen women went on razzia so no doubt does her fighting prowess.

Its a minor change, and not one Id worry about.

Tony EH · 14-04-2020 2:42pm

splashthecash wrote: »

I'm coming at this from a fresh set of eyes - I've never seen the Lynch film, and only recently finished the book...really looking forward to this movie, and happy that they are splitting it - where do you expect the first film will end and the second pick up from?

The first part will probably end when Paul gets to Arrakis and meets the Fremen.

banie01 · 14-04-2020 2:43pm

splashthecash wrote: »

re the sandworms - reading the book, I found it hard to visualize how big these actually are? Are we talking bus size or bigger - I recall them being very big from the book but will be very interested to see how these turn out on screen and how the size will be represented

400mtrs long, 40 circumference with huge old worms in the deep desert.
Paul summoned a monster for his 1st ride, that was the biggest seen that was over a mile long IIRC.

Dufflecoat Fanny · 14-04-2020 2:50pm

banie01 wrote: »

10?

Anyone seeking to include anything that BH and KA "added" to the Dune canon needs to sod off IMHO.
Even if their books were included, the number would be over 20, only 6 of which have any merit and those would be FH's.

There are 6, the prequels and sequels are poorly written trash that would hardly have been published if BH had not been in control of the literary estate.

Changing the gender of Kynes is incidental, he/she was a framing device and a way of introducing the Atreides to the Fremen and of giving hope that Paul was the Lisan al Gaib.

the family ties stay the same, and as fremen women went on razzia so no doubt does her fighting prowess.

Its a minor change, and not one Id worry about.

Oringals plus a few of Brian's lost interest then they went poor

pixelburp · 14-04-2020 2:51pm

Tony EH wrote: »

There shouldn't be any "representation" Pix, it's a nonsensical concept. If you need to be represented by something or someone in a film or a story, you're living your life wrong. It's a wholly worthless pat on the head by corporate interests.

Well, that ain't how the world works but that's another thread in of itself

Nobody needs anything, but when a fictitious adaptation makes a change this tiny - if only for the sake of an otherwise innocent piece of inclusion - it's kinda wastefully petty to get uppity over it. As I said, if the story can take it, there's nothing lost. You can't change Paul because his gender plays a part in his story of Jihad and being the Chosen One. The irony of this whole topic is that gender DOES play a role in the Dune universe, if only with the Bene Gesseritt

I mean it's my own damn fault really. I stirred the pot here and couldn't leave alone, but still here we are; backing & forth over the tiniest and most inconsequential change to a SciFi adaptation because the casting team thought it'd be nice to have another female in the cast.

Tony EH · 14-04-2020 3:03pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Well, that ain't how the world works but that's another thread in of itself Nobody needs anything, but when a fictitious adaptation makes a change this tiny - if only for the sake of an otherwise innocent piece of inclusion - it's kinda wastefully petty to get uppity over it. As I said, if the story can take it, there's nothing lost. You can't change Paul because his gender plays a part in his story of Jihad and being the Chosen One. The irony of this whole topic is that gender DOES play a role in the Dune universe, if only with the Bene Gesseritt

I mean it's my own damn fault really. I stirred the pot here and couldn't leave alone, but still here we are; backing & forth over the tiniest and most inconsequential change to a SciFi adaptation because the casting team thought it'd be nice to have another female in the cast. How "worthless".

Sure, it's petty. But it's no more petty than doing the gender/race swap in the first place. It all just ends up being so unnecessary and ultimately serving no real purpose whatsoever.

As for you stirring the pot, I think that particular stew was going to be stirred anyway, so I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Look, you can't get away from this sort of thing when it's done, even to secondary or tertiary characters, in a well loved story. There's always bound to be somebody who'll not be happy with swaps of this kind, even when it's all relatively insignificant.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ixoy · 14-04-2020 3:30pm

banie01 wrote: »

400mtrs long, 40 circumference with huge old worms in the deep desert.
Paul summoned a monster for his 1st ride, that was the biggest seen that was over a mile long IIRC.

And this is where the IMAX-format could justify its existence. The film lends itself to the format - wide, sweeping shots of the desert. I can't wait to see Shai-Hulud appear for the first time on the biggest screen I can get to. If it was any other director I'd be apprehensive but Villeneuve has me hopeful.

Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

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