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Tenants

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  • 11-04-2020 11:55pm
    #1
    vr7
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭


    Have an issue where tenants have asked for a rent reduction.

    A family of 4 live in the property which comprises of 2 adults and 2 kids. They are great tenants who look after the property and never miss a payment. 1 of the adults has lost their job due to covid 19.

    Should I reduce rent wit a review after a few months, freeze rent and look for all arrears to be paid once covid issue is over.

    Any help would be appreciated.


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    #2
    overkill602
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭overkill602


    if people get laid off the state is ponying up at the moment but longer term a rent supplement is available under the HAP scheme.
    So OP its the tenants responsibility to seek advice from SW to make up the difference.
    Perhaps allowing them some space to get the support in place allow 1 month of arrears to be paid off later.
    nobody knows how long or severe this will be it could effect you somewhere down the line.


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    #3
    Enter name here
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Enter name here


    Like most tenants they are just chancing their luck.

    In short NO. It's hard enough in this country with the current laws to get any form of protection, if they don't like it offer them a well written reference and wish them luck in their search for new premises.

    My expenses have gone up in the current climate, my tenants now at home more often causing unwanted wear and tear on my investments, will I be compensated for the extra wear and tear, not on your life.


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    #4
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Pure chancers. They're probably receiving the covid payment and saving on childcare.


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Considering the 2 previous posts, it must be wonderful to live in such black and white worlds....

    Everything in the OP is reasonable but the last 2 replies are perfect examples of everything that is wrong with the current rental market

    Blood suckers.


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    #6
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    If one good thing of this Covid19 i hope it ruins nasty smug landlords


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    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    StevieHardesty wrote: »
    Considering the 2 previous posts, it must be wonderful to live in such black and white worlds....

    Everything in the OP is reasonable but the last 2 replies are perfect examples of everything that is wrong with the current rental market

    Blood suckers.

    There’s not a thing wrong with the replies. What does the landlord do for the income then? Or is it just feck them?


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    #8
    neckedit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    There’s not a thing wrong with the replies. What does the landlord do for the income then? Or is it just feck them?

    Are landlords not getting a break in their mortgage repayments?

    As for the extra wear and tear.... have you ever heard such rubbish.


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    #9
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    StevieHardesty wrote: »
    Considering the 2 previous posts, it must be wonderful to live in such black and white worlds....

    Everything in the OP is reasonable but the last 2 replies are perfect examples of everything that is wrong with the current rental market

    Blood suckers.

    And the tenants pushing the landlords for rent reductions aren't the same?

    With the RPZ legislation a landlord would be crazy to give any discount to a tenant, plenty got stung for being nice to tenants when the legislation was brought in. Now they are just being professional, which people wanted, and dealing with cold business logic by trying to make the most of their investment.


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    "..As for the extra wear and tear.... have you ever heard such rubbish..."

    +1

    I've seen and heard some crap from landlords (and tenants) - that really is the limit.

    As for the other comment that they're "saving on childcare", does the poster there not realise most creches are still charging to retain places?

    I really do hope those 2 replies are trolling - but, somehow, I doubt it


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    neckedit wrote: »
    Are landlords not getting a break in their mortgage repayments?

    As for the extra wear and tear.... have you ever heard such rubbish.

    The tenant will be getting the whack off the government too.


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    #12
    neckedit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    The tenant will be getting the whack off the government too.

    A whack off the Government?
    Really? I've been laid off, thankfully only temporarily.
    And I am grateful for the "Whack" off the government of 350 a week, I genuinely am.. I'm down 200e plus a week.
    Car insurance still due, car tax still due, health and life insurance still due, food Bill's, heat and electricity still due. While you may think with the "whack " from the Government we are all sitting in baths of Champagne and having caviar as a starter every night I can assure you I'm not.
    If a bank passes on let's say a saving of 30% nett a month to a landlord, surely that could be passed on to a tenant who has lost their Job? Its cost neutral to the landlord and you know it shows a bit of f**king humanity.


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    #13
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    neckedit wrote: »
    Are landlords not getting a break in their mortgage repayments?

    Actually, no.. If they avail of the "break" their mortgage payments will increase for the rest of the mortgage.

    Tenants aren't allowed to move at present and the government are providing support. Id suggest telling the tenants to wait and see. If they're unable to pay the full amount let them fall into arrears. It may be a case you write off the arrears but a change in the lease giving a 20% reduction in rent.. Ffs, at least get some legal advice.


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    #14
    neckedit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    antix80 wrote: »
    Actually, no.. If they avail of the "break" their mortgage payments will increase for the rest of the mortgage.

    Tenants aren't allowed to move at present and the government are providing support. Id suggest telling the tenants to wait and see. If they're unable to pay the full amount let them fall into arrears. It may be a case you write off the arrears but a change in the lease giving a 20% reduction in rent.. Ffs, at least get some legal advice.

    Well.. actually... yes... it is a break... the payments will go up slightly. If you work it out over the period there will be a saving. I've done it with my own.


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    #15
    Enter name here
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Enter name here


    StevieHardesty wrote: »
    Considering the 2 previous posts, it must be wonderful to live in such black and white worlds....

    Everything in the OP is reasonable but the last 2 replies are perfect examples of everything that is wrong with the current rental market

    Blood suckers.

    Considering your post, is the exact reason I show no compassion to my tenants. People like you expect LL's to support you, we are not your bank nor family.


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    #16
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,296 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    antix80 wrote: »
    Pure chancers. They're probably receiving the covid payment and saving on childcare.

    Miserable sod

    Great tenants, look after the property etc etc and one of them is genuinely out of work

    All the words of the OP

    "Chancers"


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    #17
    Hubertj
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    OP have a read of this. Probably give you more balanced advice than what you get on boards...

    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/what-happens-if-a-tenant-can-t-pay-rent-during-the-covid-19-crisis-1.4217029


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    #18
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    bigpink wrote: »
    If one good thing of this Covid19 i hope it ruins nasty smug landlords

    How so ?


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    #19
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    I gave my residential tenants temporary rent breaks where their work was impacted by COVID19. I spoke to the bank about it on my side and have had the mortgage reduced for a few months (went to interest only). Passed that onto the tenant as a reduction. No, I don't expect them to repay it afterwards.

    Commercial tenants who had to shut the business, same, I paused the rents there too. They will still have rates due. Otherwise I would be putting them out of business.

    People are under huge pressure, I feel it myself with a young family and having to set up a home office etc.

    I say do what you can. It's a short term situation.


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    #20
    Enter name here
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Enter name here


    And yes with tenants staying home, there is considerable wear and tear on my properties. Is the government going to offer me a handout to cover the extra losses on my properties. I think not.

    Extra wear and tear on things like carpets, furniture, boilers, hot water systems just to name a few.


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    #21
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Depends on whether they are paying market rent but i don't see much wrong with them asking.

    OP isn't obliged to agree but things have quite obviously changed out there


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    #22
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    The plan from the next government is to add more legislation against the landlords. If the state wants to pony up and pay the rent so be it but Landlords are running a business . Ok one of the tenants has lost their job. Doesn't mean that their money that they bring in goes to zero.

    There are welfare payment for that.

    OP have the tenants provided proof of job loss and have shown how much they will get from welfare?

    On another thread here a LL had tenants pull this one as well when the landlord asked for this , they then said that they would pay the rent in full... I.e. running a con.


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    #23
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,187 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    neckedit wrote: »
    Are landlords not getting a break in their mortgage repayments?

    As for the extra wear and tear.... have you ever heard such rubbish.

    A break? Yes, but it is short term and the full mortgage must be repaid, including interest on the break period.

    A reduction on the other hand has the immediate effect of reduced rental return, and the long term effect of the LL being locked on that rent level when calculating future increases within RPZ regs.

    I don’t see any problem with the tenant asking, but I also don’t think the op has a moral obligation to grant the request. He/she still has a mortgage to pay.


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    #24
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,187 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    bigpink wrote: »
    If one good thing of this Covid19 i hope it ruins nasty smug landlords

    Pushing more of them out of the sector? How does this benefit tenants in your opinion.


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    #25
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Neither renter or landlord here.

    If they have lost their job, shouldn't they be able to prove it to you? If they can, and you are in a position OP to do so, I would say give them a break. It sounds like they are decent tenants who have fallen on hard times. If you need to take a holiday from the bank to help them out, I would say do it.

    We are all in this together, it is tough for everyone at the moment but sacrifices are being made all round.

    (To the other poster, imagine being such a moron to think that tenants at home all day are causing more wear and tear on your property! What do you do, lock them out until 5.30 at the moment in case they happened to walk on the carpet for an extra few minutes every day? I know plenty of people renting, and their apartments have never been cleaner because they are never out of the place, did you ever think of that?)


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    #26
    lcwill
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭lcwill


    Enter name here wrote: »
    And yes with tenants staying home, there is considerable wear and tear on my properties. Is the government going to offer me a handout to cover the extra losses on my properties. I think not.

    Extra wear and tear on things like carpets, furniture, boilers, hot water systems just to name a few.

    I'd say this is grasping at straws.

    If your investments are run on such thin margins that a slight reduction in the life expectancy of a carpet is a risk to your business then you have a problem. I wouldn't want to be the tenant of a landlord who is living so close to the edge, God forbid the fridge breaks down.

    I pre-emptively wrote to my tenants at the start of the lockdown and put them on half rent until things improve. One had already had his work cut back, and for the others it is a chance to get ready for the worst.

    I am in a pretty good position to weather the storm and didn't want to put tenants under pressure to take risks with their health or with anyone else's health for the sake of my bottom line.

    I have low leverage and it's not my main source of income so I could do it. Any one else who is in a position to help people out during an unprecedented crisis should also do it, without worrying they are being taken for a mug.

    If, rather than expressing sympathy or solidarity, my landlord accused me of wearing his sofa out more quickly because I was sitting at home unemployed for a few months, I'd be looking at all those nice ex-Airbnb places that are coming available and getting ready to move out as soon as I could.


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    #27
    neckedit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭neckedit


    Enter name here wrote: »
    And yes with tenants staying home, there is considerable wear and tear on my properties. Is the government going to offer me a handout to cover the extra losses on my properties. I think not.

    Extra wear and tear on things like carpets, furniture, boilers, hot water systems just to name a few.

    Ok, let's put a number on this. Lets say this situation is a 3 month thing. How much more are you going to spend?
    Are you going around to your properties after this to inspect them and if the carpet is tread bare from the extra traffic will you replace on the spot? If the springs on the sofa are gone will you replace? Will you come in and get all the boilers serviced cause if this extra wear and tear? I wager none of this will happen.

    But indulge me, put a figure on it?


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    #28
    Enter name here
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Enter name here


    lcwill wrote: »
    I'd say this is grasping at straws.

    If your investments are run on such thin margins that a slight reduction in the life expectancy of a carpet is a risk to your business then you have a problem. I wouldn't want to be the tenant of a landlord who is living so close to the edge, God forbid the fridge breaks down.

    I pre-emptively wrote to my tenants at the start of the lockdown and put them on half rent until things improve. One had already had his work cut back, and for the others it is a chance to get ready for the worst.

    I am in a pretty good position to weather the storm and didn't want to put tenants under pressure to take risks with their health or with anyone else's health for the sake of my bottom line.

    I have low leverage and it's not my main source of income so I could do it. Any one else who is in a position to help people out during an unprecedented crisis should also do it, without worrying they are being taken for a mug.

    If, rather than expressing sympathy or solidarity, my landlord accused me of wearing his sofa out more quickly because I was sitting at home unemployed for a few months, I'd be looking at all those nice ex-Airbnb places that are coming available and getting ready to move out as soon as I could.

    My properties are owned outright, so no risk to my business nor income stream. And I make no bones about it, in this current climate and the laws to protect the tenant and barely any to protect my investments I make no concessions. I ask this of you, buying a new car are you going to pay the same price for the demo in yard or take it on the chin just because it has had a few kms put on it.


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    #29
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,187 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    Neither renter or landlord here.

    If they have lost their job, shouldn't they be able to prove it to you? If they can, and you are in a position OP to do so, I would say give them a break. It sounds like they are decent tenants who have fallen on hard times. If you need to take a holiday from the bank to help them out, I would say do it.

    We are all in this together, it is tough for everyone at the moment but sacrifices are being made all round.

    (To the other poster, imagine being such a moron to think that tenants at home all day are causing more wear and tear on your property! What do you do, lock them out until 5.30 at the moment in case they happened to walk on the carpet for an extra few minutes every day? I know plenty of people renting, and their apartments have never been cleaner because they are never out of the place, did you ever think of that?)

    As famously said by Polonius, neither a borrower Nor a lender be.

    You are in a lucky situation, which makes it easy for you to be generous with other people’s money. You can’t take a holiday from the bank, payments are just suspended for 3 months, but interest accrues over the remainder of the term, and the 3 months mortgage has to be paid back.


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    #30
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    pwurple wrote: »
    I gave my residential tenants temporary rent breaks where their work was impacted by COVID19. I spoke to the bank about it on my side and have had the mortgage reduced for a few months (went to interest only). Passed that onto the tenant as a reduction. No, I don't expect them to repay it afterwards.

    Commercial tenants who had to shut the business, same, I paused the rents there too. They will still have rates due. Otherwise I would be putting them out of business.

    People are under huge pressure, I feel it myself with a young family and having to set up a home office etc.

    I say do what you can. It's a short term situation.

    This.

    A little bit of decency goes a long way at times like this taking a hard line is likely to cost you more between the cost and time involved involved with evicting tenants, the outlook of a recession in the short term at least. Now is the time to be holding onto decent tenants.....


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    #31
    Enter name here
    Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭Enter name here


    neckedit wrote: »
    Ok, let's put a number on this. Lets say this situation is a 3 month thing. How much more are you going to spend?
    Are you going around to your properties after this to inspect them and if the carpet is tread bare from the extra traffic will you replace on the spot? If the springs on the sofa are gone will you replace? Will you come in and get all the boilers serviced cause if this extra wear and tear? I wager none of this will happen.

    But indulge me, put a figure on it?

    Yes all my properties are inspected every 3 months, repairs are carried out immediately as needed. And yes being home all the time shortens the life span of items and services in the property. It's not a matter of how much i need to spend it's a matter now i have a shorter life span on those items meaning they will have to be replaced or serviced much sooner than previously.


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