The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

Professor Moriarty · 11-04-2020 02:19PM

easypazz wrote: »

A stopped clock is right twice a day.

Point?

Memnoch · 11-04-2020 02:21PM

duffman13 wrote: »

Jesus thats a tough read. The father daughter dieing within 24 hours of each other

The vast majority of them are from ethnic minorities, I know the NHS is generally heavily supported from overseas workers however I wonder is there something in their genetic make up that makes them more prone to a serious dose. In the states they were saying it seems to be disproportianetly affecting ethnic backgrounds. Initially thought it might be a wealth/poverty divide there but a bit of a trend.

The New York Times had an interesting article on this a couple days ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/world/europe/coronavirus-doctors-immigrants.html

While it is certainly possible that there is a genetic component. There is plenty of indication to support that this is very much a wealth divide as a result of systemic racial biases that are unfortunately being exposed by this pandemic.

Poorer people, living in cramped conditions, not being able to isolate as early as others due to financial or other constraints, not being in jobs that allow them to work remotely.

With respect to the UK, as the New York Times article alludes, immigrant doctors are more likely to be in the front lines and at the less glamorous end of the medical specialty spectrum. There has been a fair amount of push from management on doctors in various trusts where doctors that are borderline in age and vulnerability are still being expected to work(often without adequate PPE). Doctors from ethnic minorities tend to push back less against this kind of authority as well.

Overall, the data is too limited at this stage to draw a strong conclusion. But we do see an intersectionality where non-ethnic NHS staff that are succumbing are in the more vulnerable professions of nursing and supportive community care.

Privilege and social status seem to be emerging as defining protections, all other factors being equal.

Professor Moriarty · 11-04-2020 02:27PM

Memnoch wrote: »

The New York Times had an interesting article on this a couple days ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/world/europe/coronavirus-doctors-immigrants.html

While it is certainly possible that there is a genetic component. There is plenty of indication to support that this is very much a wealth divide as a result of systemic racial biases that are unfortunately being exposed by this pandemic.

Poorer people, living in cramped conditions, not being able to isolate as early as others due to financial or other constraints, not being in jobs that allow them to work remotely.

With respect to the UK, as the New York Times article alludes, immigrant doctors are more likely to be in the front lines and at the less glamorous end of the medical specialty spectrum. There has been a fair amount of push from management on doctors in various trusts where doctors that are borderline in age and vulnerability are still being expected to work(often without adequate PPE). Doctors from ethnic minorities tend to push back less against this kind of authority as well.

Overall, the data is too limited at this stage to draw a strong conclusion. But we do see an intersectionality where non-ethnic NHS staff that are succumbing are in the more vulnerable professions of nursing and supportive community care.

Privilege and social status seem to be emerging as defining protections, all other factors being equal.

It's more likely to be socioeconomic factors given that both black and hispanic people are twice as likely to die from Covid-19 than white people.

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-04-2020 02:51PM

RasTa · 11-04-2020 02:53PM

Fair and balanced article about how the Brits are feeling

Tis behind a paywall

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Professor Moriarty · 11-04-2020 02:55PM

'Alison Pearson' and 'fair and balanced' are polar opposites.

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-04-2020 02:56PM

That is wishy washy rubbish tbf

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-04-2020 02:58PM

Scotland:
In hospital: 1,855 (+23)
In ICU: 212 (+5)
Total confirmed cases: 5,590 (+315)
Total deaths with confirmed COVID-19: 542 (+47)

Bass Reeves · 11-04-2020 03:04PM

British official figures show them at virtually 10k deaths. They had 917 reported just now making it 150ish short of 10k. Will probably double in the next 7-8 days. Hopefully they are at or near at there peak but other countries flat lined after peaking for over a week.

Joe_ Public · 11-04-2020 03:16PM

RasTa wrote: »

Fair and balanced article about how the Brits are feeling

Tis behind a paywall

Some people might be more intetested in the week Johnson took off in February that he spent in Raab's shagpile in kent, around the time he wasnt seen in public for 12 days.

Wonder how Nazanin Zaghari Radcliffe is keeping these days.

Donald Trump · 11-04-2020 03:27PM

theological wrote: »

Goodness. At this rate of reduction in the data they night end up meeting the British modellers half way or even fully!

Were there not posters on here only a few days ago saying that a projection of 20k deaths by August was outlandish?

You'd wish those poster were right but it isn't looking likely to be honest. It never did look likely.

I suppose that if the totals hit 20k in the next 10 days or 2 weeks or so, and we come back to point that out we'd be accused of glorifying the deaths or something.

Blueshoe · 11-04-2020 03:35PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Were there not posters on here only a few days ago saying that a projection of 20k deaths by August was outlandish?

You'd wish those poster were right but it isn't looking likely to be honest. It never did look likely.

I suppose that if the totals hit 20k in the next 10 days or 2 weeks or so, and we come back to point that out we'd be accused of glorifying the deaths or something.

That would sound like gloating. If 20k die and people come on saying I told you so then those people are dirt.
People dieing is the reality here. Not some randos opinion on an Irish forum

Enzokk · 11-04-2020 03:50PM

I will be the one that says it, I would swap Johnson's life for any of the NHS workers that has died. He offers nothing in a crises. This was true during the London riots when he took his sweet time coming back from holiday. It was true during the floods last year and the start of this year where he visited areas and made an appearance during the election campaign but after he was elected he stayed away because he would be a distraction.

He made jokes about this virus while his response has left the staff at the front line short of PPE. I cannot predict that he will cost people their lives as it has happened already. There seems to be 2 consistent elements here, one Johnson is not the man for a crises and the second is that he loves his holidays. He is always either going on holiday or having to be called back from one.

fr336 · 11-04-2020 03:52PM

blinding wrote: »

And why, What a waste.

Because it's second hand and cheaper than making their own fake ones? I'm sure if the NHS was desperate for ventilators before they would have been glad of them.

Donald Trump · 11-04-2020 03:56PM

Blueshoe wrote: »

That would sound like gloating. If 20k die and people come on saying I told you so then those people are dirt.
People dieing is the reality here. Not some randos opinion on an Irish forum

I think that it's a bit late for some other "randos" to be expressing or feigning concern about people dying when they were loudly supporting the delay in bringing in controls (against all advice and common sense). Everyone else was telling them that those controls needed to be brought it or else people would die.

I don't know where you were one of those or not. But some of them are still on here spouting nonsense and calling for "evidence" when someone else states the-bleedin-obvious.

We're talking yesterday or the day before that they were coming out with that stuff.

Enzokk · 11-04-2020 03:59PM

Blueshoe wrote: »

That would sound like gloating. If 20k die and people come on saying I told you so then those people are dirt.
People dieing is the reality here. Not some randos opinion on an Irish forum

Pointing out what is happening is gloating? Did we advise Cheltenham to go ahead or thousands of Spanish fans to still travel to Liverpool for a football match? Did we advise the UK government to change tack from Germany and not test on a big scale? Did we follow advice from the scientists and then u-turn a few days later when the policy realities were brought to our attention?

This is the same as when a mass shooting happens in the US. It is never the right time to discuss gun control because people died. They are dead, nothing will bring them back but focusing on why they died and the decisions that is responsible for that may make a difference in the response the next time a pandemic hits. I am not advocating throwing people in jail, but you need to have a honest conversation about people's failures if thousands of deaths are happening a day.

The fact that we are somewhat separate from the UK allows us to see this more clearly than in the UK. Just like we would be more inclined to argue to the other way if it was at home and Ireland didn't go into lockdown earlier which cost thousands of lives here.

11-04-2020 04:05PM

Enzokk wrote: »

Pointing out what is happening is gloating? Did we advise Cheltenham to go ahead or thousands of Spanish fans to still travel to Liverpool for a football match? Did we advise the UK government to change tack from Germany and not test on a big scale? Did we follow advice from the scientists and then u-turn a few days later when the policy realities were brought to our attention?

This is the same as when a mass shooting happens in the US. It is never the right time to discuss gun control because people died. They are dead, nothing will bring them back but focusing on why they died and the decisions that is responsible for that may make a difference in the response the next time a pandemic hits. I am not advocating throwing people in jail, but you need to have a honest conversation about people's failures if thousands of deaths are happening a day.

The fact that we are somewhat separate from the UK allows us to see this more clearly than in the UK. Just like we would be more inclined to argue to the other way if it was at home and Ireland didn't go into lockdown earlier which cost thousands of lives here.

Tbf we, allowed thousands of italian rugby supporters in,just as this was kicking off

Didnt quarantine anyone returning from ski trips to utaly at same time frame (even sent 1 gp back to work).......left this virus get into one place it shouldnt(nursing homes),a testing system where not even testers know wtf is going on

we're not exactly in any position to be lecturing other countries

blinding · 11-04-2020 04:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbf we, allowed thousands of italian rugby supporters in,just as this was kicking off

Didnt quarantine anyone returning from ski trips to utaly at same time frame (even sent 1 gp back to work).......left this virus get into one place it shouldnt(nursing homes),a testing system where not even testers know wtf is going on

we're not exactly in any position to be lecturing other countries

Thats for sure.

Some are too busy looking elsewhere rather than look at the mistakes that were made by the Irish Government.:eek:

Joe_ Public · 11-04-2020 04:18PM

Priti Patel in the house today. Raab really casting the net out wide.

Donald Trump · 11-04-2020 04:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbf we, allowed thousands of italian rugby supporters in,just as this was kicking off

Didnt quarantine anyone returning from ski trips to utaly at same time frame (even sent 1 gp back to work).......left this virus get into one place it shouldnt(nursing homes),a testing system where not even testers know wtf is going on

we're not exactly in any position to be lecturing other countries

Oh it's definitely true that mistakes were made everywhere.

But it took far more time for some countries to implement certain controls. Every day mattered and matters. The Irish decision makers did not get to the stage of ignoring international pleadings to get their act together.

We can't whitewash the UK response. There is a reason why there is a separate thread on the topic!

bilston · 11-04-2020 04:21PM

I see Sinn Fein are kicking off over the NI Health Minister's decision to request UK military help in distributing vital equipment and in the planning for a nightingale hospital.

I have to say that SF need to look at the bigger picture here. If that's what it takes to save lives, that's what it takes.

dfx- · 11-04-2020 04:25PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Priti Patel in the house today. Raab really casting the net out wide.

It seems the daily theme is crime numbers, so as Home Secretary she is finally out in front of cameras.

I wonder how she handles the questions not about getting tough on crime which is her speciality.

robinph · 11-04-2020 04:29PM

Priti Patel asking people to tweet a picture of a hand print in order to save the world, this could be a turning point. Political attempts at viral social media campaigns tend to go wrong...

Professor Moriarty · 11-04-2020 04:29PM

bilston wrote: »

I see Sinn Fein are kicking off over the NI Health Minister's decision to request UK military help in distributing vital equipment and in the planning for a nightingale hospital.

I have to say that SF need to look at the bigger picture here. If that's what it takes to save lives, that's what it takes.

I wonder were SF consulted? I wonder was the historical significance of British soldiers driving around Derry and Belfast acknowledged? Or did Swann just make a unilateral decision and announce it?

Joe_ Public · 11-04-2020 04:29PM

dfx- wrote: »

It seems the daily theme is crime numbers, so as Home Secretary she is finally out in front of cameras.

I wonder how she handles the questions not about getting tough on crime which is her speciality.

Yeah, guess that figured. Crime numbers invariably drop at times like these so hardly going to be much teeth to this one unless she got something else to say re nhs or immigration or whatnot.

Professor Moriarty · 11-04-2020 04:31PM

robinph wrote: »

Priti Patel asking people to tweet a picture of a hand print in order to save the world, this could be a turning point. Political attempts at viral social media campaigns tend to go wrong...

I won't say what came to mind...

Enzokk · 11-04-2020 04:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbf we, allowed thousands of italian rugby supporters in,just as this was kicking off

Didnt quarantine anyone returning from ski trips to utaly at same time frame (even sent 1 gp back to work).......left this virus get into one place it shouldnt(nursing homes),a testing system where not even testers know wtf is going on

we're not exactly in any position to be lecturing other countries

I know and I doubt you will find many who are happy with some of the decisions our government has made. At the same time we shut our schools a week before the UK and the pubs about 5 days before the UK as well. We shut the pubs a few days before St Patrick's day. It didn't matter about the economic cost, a decision was made in the interest of the health of the population.

blinding · 11-04-2020 04:33PM

robinph wrote: »

Priti Patel asking people to tweet a picture of a hand print in order to save the world, this could be a turning point. Political attempts at viral social media campaigns tend to go wrong...

Hand prints or finger prints. Pritti would need a bit of watching.

And she knows you are supposed to be home !

threeball · 11-04-2020 04:41PM

Pritti hasn't stopped grinning since she stood at the podium. Like a teenage girl doing a debate in the school gym. Announces 917 deaths and is still gurning away like shes reading the football results

Joe_ Public · 11-04-2020 04:45PM

Asking Patel to give a commitment on a date for delivering ppe to hospitals. I mean, if Raab or Hancock cant answer that, how can we expect her to? Only going to get waffle.

The UK response to Covid-19 [MOD WARNING 1ST POST]

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