Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Falling fuel prices and car tax

Options
  • 04-04-2020 12:05pm
    #1
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭


    As fuel costs are falling and likely to fall for the foreseeable future is it now a good time to transfer the car tax systems to the cost of fuel and do away with the systems as they are?



    Fairer, simpler, greener and harder to avoid.
    Any thoughts? Please stay to the topic as the other thread was derailed by irrelevant issues.

    Abolish car tax as is and add costs to fuel (again) 165 votes

    Yes (add more tax as its currently not enough at 68%)
    63% 105 votes
    No (as they did this once before and it came back)
    16% 27 votes
    I don't care
    20% 33 votes


«134567…10

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Perhaps even transfer a basic level of state insurance to the fuel too? Useful for the younger driver.


  • Options
    #3
    Miscreant
    Registered Users Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭Miscreant


    saabsaab wrote: »
    As fuel costs are falling and likely to fall for the foreseeable future is it now a good time to transfer the car tax systems to the cost of fuel and do away with the systems as they are?



    Fairer, simpler, greener and harder to avoid.
    Any thoughts? Please stay to the topic as the other thread was derailed by irrelevant issues.

    Do we really need yet another thread on this topic? People who drive more are already paying more in tax as they use more fuel. Motor tax is an ownership tax and everyone has to pay it regardless of whether they drive their car or not. Garda ANPR will flag a vehicle without tax so it then becomes a policing issue anyway. Your car can be taken from you for non-payment so that is enough of an incentive to keep up to date on the tax.
    What happens when someone paying €200 a year in motor tax all of a sudden is paying €400 more per year for fuel because motor tax has been abolished and added to the fuel instead?
    If anything, after all this Covid stuff dies down, the Government will probably add more tax to fuel anyway and leave motor tax in place. The country is going to need the income to pay for the health services and the borrowing that is happening right now to keep the place afloat.


  • Options
    #4
    teediddlyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭teediddlyeye


    ^ this

    There's enough tax on fuel as it is. Like I've said before unless you're somehow managing to get fuel for free, you're already paying more the more you use.

    Also it's ridiculous to just assume that less fuel used automatically means less pollution, you could buy a 30 year old diesel car and it wouldn't be a million miles off its current counterpart in mpg. Which one do you think would be cleaner?

    You need an incentive when buying a new car to chose something greener. Taxing just fuel wouldn't do that and you'd probably have manufacturers leaning out engines to get better mpg at the expense of toxic emissions i.e dieselgate

    "I never thought I was normal, never tried to be normal."- Charlie Manson



  • Options
    #5
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    It cannot be called an ownership tax as you can have a car off the road and not pay anything. of course that may change.
    It's true you pay more the more you drive but this would incentivize more fuel efficiency or less travel, working form home etc.
    The Government may indeed raise all sorts of tax including fuel excise after the crisis but the abolition of car tax would make it easier.


  • Options
    #6
    teediddlyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭teediddlyeye


    I think ask the opinion of someone with a 1991 ls400 if they think motor tax should be scrapped in favour of extra fuel duty lol

    "I never thought I was normal, never tried to be normal."- Charlie Manson



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    teediddlyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭teediddlyeye


    Actually now that I think about it, the c02 tax system rewards high mpg cars. As c02 coresponds to consumption.

    So if you buy an efficient car now you're really being rewarded twice with lower tax and less trips to the pump. But you'd like to see one side of that removed altogether and tax increased on the other. Yeah sounds green alright!

    "I never thought I was normal, never tried to be normal."- Charlie Manson



  • Options
    #8
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    It is more about use than the efficiency though. For example if you use a Rolls 10 miles a week to the shops in Dublin (burns one gallon approx) you use less than a supermini doing 120 miles a week (about 3 gallons).


  • Options
    #9
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    After the fuel crisis in the 1970's and a jump in petrol prices there was a major move towards more fuel efficient cars. Increasing fuel cost certainly does promote more efficient and alternative transport options.


  • Options
    #10
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    Not this sh1te from you again?

    Wasn't the last thread about getting rid of motor tax and adding it to fuel enough?


  • Options
    #11
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    saabsaab wrote: »
    As fuel costs are falling and likely to fall for the foreseeable future is it now a good time to transfer the car tax systems to the cost of fuel and do away with the systems as they are?
    .

    Fuel prices are starting to rise so your argument is null and void.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Fuel prices are starting to rise so your argument is null and void.


    No they are not! Check recent prices.


  • Options
    #13
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    R.O.R wrote: »
    Not this sh1te from you again?

    Wasn't the last thread about getting rid of motor tax and adding it to fuel enough?


    You are free to ignore it.


  • Options
    #14
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    How many cents per litre are you proposing to add?

    And are you still proposing a flat fee on top of this rise in fuel prices?

    And would you think people with diesel cars would be tempted to use green diesel more?


  • Options
    #15
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,678 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    saabsaab wrote: »
    You are free to ignore it.

    And you are free to stop posting the same crap again and again.

    Didn't really go your way last time did it? Think it will go better this time?

    So, what do you drive? That's the essential question.


  • Options
    #16
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    pablo128 wrote: »
    How many cents per litre are you proposing to add?

    And are you still proposing a flat fee on top of this rise in fuel prices?

    And would you think people with diesel cars would be tempted to use green diesel more?


    1) Probably 20 cent per litre on fossil or fossil derived fuel but depends.

    2) Also would depend but a small registration yearly fee would probably apply.
    3) The EU is proposing to do away with separate rates for diesel so may not be an issue soon.


    Fuel prices can vary quite a lot anyway so costs can rise without any such measure.


  • Options
    #17
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,238 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    We are heading into a recession so it's unlikely as government will increase taxes anyway. However if the government changes cat tax to a fuel levy guess what ten years later after another recession government reintroduce car tax as all card are electric

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Options
    #18
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    We are heading into a recession so it's unlikely as government will increase taxes anyway. However if the government changes cat tax to a fuel levy guess what ten years later after another recession government reintroduce car tax as all card are electric


    Well we can't know what the future holds but what you say is possible.


  • Options
    #19
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    saabsaab wrote: »
    1) Probably 20 cent per litre on fossil or fossil derived fuel but depends.

    2) Also would depend but a small registration yearly fee would probably apply.
    3) The EU is proposing to do away with separate rates for diesel so may not be an issue soon.


    Fuel prices can vary quite a lot anyway so costs can rise without any such measure.

    You haven't costed it then? I assumed you would have had figures worked out since you went to the trouble of making a poll. You mentioned in the last thread that you envisaged it being cost neutral, I assume for the average motorist.

    And what about my.question re green diesel?


  • Options
    #20
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,159 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Wash, rinse, repeat....

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058044429


  • Options
    #21
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    R.O.R wrote: »
    And you are free to stop posting the same crap again and again.

    Didn't really go your way last time did it? Think it will go better this time?

    So, what do you drive? That's the essential question.


    I am but I choose not to don't tell me what to do. Actually it did go well the last time most were in favour of the change.


    Again what I drive or not is irrelevant to the topic as in what is th ebest way to administer car tax/excise.


    By the way is that you bazz26?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    pablo128 wrote: »
    You haven't costed it then? I assumed you would have had figures worked out since you went to the trouble of making a poll. You mentioned in the last thread that you envisaged it being cost neutral, I assume for the average motorist.

    And what about my.question re green diesel?


    I meant cost neutral to the government tax take. The average motorist wouldn't see a great overall increase and would have the benefit if being paid at the pump not in one large sum each year.
    With all changes there would be winners and losers.


    Would not be too difficult to make it cost neutral after the initial year it could be easily adjusted. Like I said 'green' diesel rates would be gone soon per EU.


  • Options
    #23
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Wash, rinse, repeat....

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058044429


    I thought you didn't want to communicate with me again?
    Hope you lay off the name calling.


  • Options
    #24
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    saabsaab wrote: »
    I meant cost neutral to the government tax take. The average motorist wouldn't see a great overall increase and would have the benefit if being paid at the pump not in one large sum each year.
    With all changes there would be winners and losers.


    Would not be too difficult to make it cost neutral after the initial year it could be easily adjusted. Like I said 'green' diesel rates would be gone soon per EU.

    Have you a link for the eu getting rid of green diesel?


  • Options
    #25
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    pablo128 wrote: »
    Have you a link for the eu getting rid of green diesel?


    I had it in the previous thread if you want to look there.


  • Options
    #26
    pogsick
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭pogsick


    Why are the poll results hidden???


  • Options
    #27
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    saabsaab wrote: »
    I had it in the previous thread if you want to look there.

    I'd rather you link it here for the benefit of myself and other posters, if you don't mind.


  • Options
    #28
    Pops_20
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭Pops_20


    Don't knock the OP. The point of the post makes sense for some people.

    I own two cars. I drive one of them day to day, and drive the other at the weekends. I pay €1,420 in motor tax p/a between the two cars, if I pay the full year in one go! I get 23 mpg average between the two cars.

    I pay at least 7 times the motor tax rate than most other cars on the road, that are most likely doing twice the mileage I am doing. Why should I pay such a high rate of tax for my cars?

    The more you drive, the more fuel you consume, the more you should pay. Simple as that.


  • Options
    #29
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    pogsick wrote: »
    Why are the poll results hidden???


    Only hidden until the end, about two weeks off. I don't want the results to influence anybody.


  • Options
    #30
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Pops_20 wrote: »
    Don't knock the OP. The point of the post makes sense for some people.

    I own two cars. I drive one of them day to day, and drive the other at the weekends. I pay €1,420 in motor tax p/a between the two cars, if I pay the full year in one go! I get 23 mpg average between the two cars.

    I pay at least 7 times the motor tax rate than most other cars on the road, that are most likely doing twice the mileage I am doing. Why should I pay such a high rate of tax for my cars?

    The more you drive, the more fuel you consume, the more you should pay. Simple as that.
    2 cars here cost 980 a year to tax. An 05 and a 16. I'm nearly in the same boat as you. However it's currently the case that the more you drive, the more you pay. It's the poor bastards commuting from outside Dublin who will get hammered to death from such an increase in tax on fuel.

    You and me and anyone else currently have the option of buying a low tax car. You would get smashed on the price of fuel and still have to pay a yearly fee under saabsaabs proposals.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,828 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    'still have to pay a yearly fee under saabsaabs proposals'


    A much reduced yearly registration on the road fee! Focus the cost on the polluter pays principle.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement