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United States of Europe...is it time?

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  • 30-03-2020 8:29pm
    #1
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,557 ✭✭✭✭


    With the country staring down the “barrel” of, yet another, deep recession and the talk of the EU willing to “consolidate” the debts incurred by this, current, crisis, if the Germans agree, into a single “burden” paid back by all, should we be looking to cast off the tattered cloak of, petty, nationalism and embrace a, federal, United States of Europe?

    We’ve had almost a century of self governance, and in that time we’ve managed to hand our children over for abuse, and neglect, to the Church, we have been robbed blind by our “leaders”, we have bankrupted the country through mismanagement, ineptitude and greed, and we continue to blindly walk our future generations into an “ecological” disaster.

    By signing up to a, proper, European “superstate” we would find ourselves, largely, free from the “burdens” that have been holding us back for so long. Our non-existent, and laughable, neutrality would be gone overnight. Our armies would be co-opted into a, larger, European “armed service”. This would provide us a proper military wing.

    And while we would still have the ability to govern our own “state” we would be under the watchful eye of the central government of Europe.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d be proud of my country, and our flag, as the next guy. Would still sing the soccer “anthem” at Lansdowne Road during the Six Nations, but it’s time for us to “grow up” and accept that Ireland needs to be sitting up at the table with the “big boys” and not cowering somewhere between the brits and yanks.

    And now seems like it could well be the perfect time for all EU states to come together, and move “forward”, as one. Together.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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Comments

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    #2
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    No.


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    #3
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    We have a raging pandemic and this is your question? Not the time to even think about it now IMO.


  • Options
    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not a hope would the EU allow hurling long term on safety grounds,

    So be a no from me





    Interesting idea/discussion otherwise,

    But i can see too much difference in regions to make it viable,same as the USA realistically shouldnt be 1 country anymore


  • Options
    #5
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,721 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Would rather Trump to invade and claim Ireland.


  • Options
    #6
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    With the country staring down the “barrel” of, yet another, deep recession and the talk of the EU willing to “consolidate” the debts incurred by this, current, crisis, if the Germans agree, into a single “burden” paid back by all, should we be looking to cast off the tattered cloak of, petty, nationalism and embrace a, federal, United States of Europe?

    We’ve had almost a century of self governance, and in that time we’ve managed to hand our children over for abuse, and neglect, to the Church, we have been robbed blind by our “leaders”, we have bankrupted the country through mismanagement, ineptitude and greed, and we continue to blindly walk our future generations into an “ecological” disaster.

    By signing up to a, proper, European “superstate” we would find ourselves, largely, free from the “burdens” that have been holding us back for so long. Our non-existent, and laughable, neutrality would be gone overnight. Our armies would be co-opted into a, larger, European “armed service”. This would provide us a proper military wing.

    And while we would still have the ability to govern our own “state” we would be under the watchful eye of the central government of Europe.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d be proud of my country, and our flag, as the next guy. Would still sing the soccer “anthem” at Lansdowne Road during the Six Nations, but it’s time for us to “grow up” and accept that Ireland needs to be sitting up at the table with the “big boys” and not cowering somewhere between the brits and yanks.

    And now seems like it could well be the perfect time for all EU states to come together, and move “forward”, as one. Together.

    While I have no issue with a USE I actually think this pandemic has wedged a bigger gap within the EU.

    It’s every country for themselves with no leadership from Brussels since day 1

    The silence is deafening.


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    #7
    Woke Hogan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭Woke Hogan


    is_that_so wrote: »
    We have a raging pandemic and this is your question? Not the time to even think about it now IMO.

    You say that we’re all stuck in the trenches ducking zipping bullets during a war. We can think and talk about other topics.

    To the original poster: no, it’s a stupid idea.


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    #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The long awaited German conquering of Europe.


    Nein, danke.


  • Options
    #9
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    What has the EU ever done for us? :)


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    #10
    8-10
    Registered Users Posts: 13,329 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    I dont fully understand the perceived benefits you're bringing to the table?

    What are the specific burdens you mean?

    Seems like a very half baked idea, need much more details on it to have a sensible debate


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    #11
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The long awaited German conquering of Europe.


    Nein, danke.

    giphy.gif


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    #12
    statesaver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭statesaver


    Woke Hogan wrote: »
    You say that we’re all stuck in the trenches ducking zipping bullets during a war. We can think and talk about other topics.

    To the original poster: no, it’s a stupid idea.

    No he didn't. :rolleyes:


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    #13
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Hell no Guy Verhofstadt, the EU experiment have failed.
    I don't know about you guys but I like my politicians elected and accountable to their electorate.


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    #14
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    biko wrote: »
    Hell no Guy Verhofstadt, the EU experiment have failed.
    I don't know about you guys but I like my politicians elected and accountable to their electorate.

    MEPs are elected


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    #15
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    MEPs are elected

    :)

    And look at the quality of candidates we elected - Mick Wallace, Ming Flanagan and Claire Daily.

    Guess what - all the other countries are sending their castoffs the same way we are.


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    #16
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    I'd say this pandemic has kiilled the notion stone dead.


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    #17
    Duke of Url
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭Duke of Url


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    :)

    And look at the quality of candidates we elected - Mick Wallace, Ming Flanagan and Claire Daily.

    Guess what - all the other countries are sending their castoffs the same way we are.

    Sure that’s our own fault


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    #18
    Firblog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭Firblog


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    MEPs are elected

    So are county Councillors, and like MEPs they don't make the decisions.


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    #19
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    One of the first things that member states did was put up border restrictions and travel restrictions. There is no EU level co-operation in tackling this and there is no desire for that to happen.

    Any pronouncements from the EU or it’s organs such as ECB are attempts to appear relevant, but they are clearly not. They are out of the game, watching from the sidelines, not needed or wanted.

    If anything it shows that integration has gone too far and that it is time to take a step back and return sovereignty to member states.


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    #20
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    Duke of Url wrote: »
    Sure that’s our own fault

    Because we know the European Parliament is a joke, hence we all send jokers.


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    #21
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,559 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    This pandemic won't have helped anyway.

    It's crying out, just as USA is, for a coordinated and centralised response, but instead (similar to the USA) we can see a lot of 'every man for himself' reaction - panic buying and stockpiling at national level - and a lot of EU countries would be thinking that they need to develop more national infrastructure (pharma production, medicl devices, food security etc.) to deal with future crises, rather than at EU level.


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    :)

    And look at the quality of candidates we elected - Mick Wallace, Ming Flanagan and Claire Daily.

    Guess what - all the other countries are sending their castoffs the same way we are.

    Ming and Daly are excellent politicians. They represent the ordinary man and women very well.


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    #23
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,714 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Absolutely not. When push comes to shove, Germany and France do what is in their domestic interest, regardless of what effects it has on the rest of the bloc. We saw it a decade ago and you can be sure that once Covid is under control and attention turns to economic recovery, they'll try it again.

    Of course in Ireland we might as well be part of the Superstate fantasy as our TDs invariably do what they're told anyway on everything bar corporation tax (because even they realise the damage that giving that up would do), or are bullied into it (Lisbon 2, the late Brian Lenihan etc).

    If anything the EU should be rolle back into the EEC trade bloc it started as.


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    #24
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Why don't we become a state of the fatherland? It would cut out a whole load of useless middle men in Brussels.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #25
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Yes.

    We have a pandemic and we did not have a co-ordinated response in the EU, as the powers with health lie with individual governments who together run 27 different health systems, some better than others. The EU did not have any powers in this area.

    This leads to countries looking out for themselves as it is each country looking out for itself, when a closer union where this is centralised could better target the areas where it is needed, so we would not have countries competing against one another.

    A closer union would bring better solidarity as it would be in everyone's interest.


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    #26
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    BanditLuke wrote: »
    I'd say this pandemic has kiilled the notion stone dead.

    hopefully this wakes people up to the many reasons we need strict and tight border controls.


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    #27
    Urethral Buttercup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭Urethral Buttercup


    Marvellous work.


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    #28
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,489 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    All countries are staring down the barrel with this. Arguably Italy and Spain will be the most bankrupt of EU countries and Ireland could find itself contributing to their bailouts. I don't think Germany would have the appetite to consolidate the whole EU and essentially provide life support for most of the members


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    #29
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,557 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    is_that_so wrote: »
    We have a raging pandemic and this is your question? Not the time to even think about it now IMO.

    When no EU state is going to get out of this “unscathed” is now not the time to be looking to join together? Rather than let each one face the “uncertainty” alone?
    Duke of Url wrote: »
    While I have no issue with a USE I actually think this pandemic has wedged a bigger gap within the EU.

    It’s every country for themselves with no leadership from Brussels since day 1

    The silence is deafening.

    If there was one “superstate” the EU, as it is now, would have to be re-assembled. Removing all the bloated bureaucracy, the inefficiencies and the hypocrisy.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    The long awaited German conquering of Europe.


    Nein, danke.

    Ironically, the Germans are the ones who seem to be “shying away” from, what always seemed to be, their “endgame”.
    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    hopefully this wakes people up to the many reasons we need strict and tight border controls.

    Would you not see an USE army, coupled with a proper navy, not help strengthen our border “control”? There could be one “immigration department” that would process everyone.

    We could do away with the despicable “practice” of imprisoning refugees for the best part of a decade in the Direct Provision centres.
    Beasty wrote: »
    All countries are staring down the barrel with this. Arguably Italy and Spain will be the most bankrupt of EU countries and Ireland could find itself contributing to their bailouts. I don't think Germany would have the appetite to consolidate the whole EU and essentially provide life support for most of the members

    Again, seems ironic, as there have been long held suspicions regarding Germany’s “motives” within the EU and it’s purpose.

    For me, the EU is a mess. A hypocritical mess that does nothing but give more politicians a place to “play” and to feel important. It’s high time that model was scrapped a new, sturdier and more robust system of central governance was installed in Europe.

    Ireland should not shy away from such a noble cause. I believe it was Thomas, Tom, Kettle who, writing as a soldier in WWI, said “My only counsel to Ireland is, that to become deeply Irish, she must become European” and it’s about bloody time we, truly, did.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #30
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    No, it's a pipe dream, another radical utopia and well to be honest I just don't like that organisation, I think Europe's gone to sh*t since its started to try flex its muscles, it has serious issues when it comes to democracy too


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    biko wrote: »
    Hell no Guy Verhofstadt, the EU experiment have failed.
    I don't know about you guys but I like my politicians elected and accountable to their electorate.






    MEPs are elected and Commissioners are appointed by governments (which are also elected)


    Don't like your MEP? vote for a different one.
    Don't like your commissioner? Vote in a different government party


    How is this undemocratic. In fact it is more that Ireland, which is undergoing it's undemocratic election of a Senate right now


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