Coronavirus: Chinese wet markets still operation despite COVID-19

Coralcoras · 30-03-2020 12:30PM

A bit off-topic: There are less than 50 sheep across the 3 Aran Islands...fact.

- sorry didn’t mean to post this here

wakka12 · 30-03-2020 12:33PM

I think the Chinese government has committed wrongs that led to disastrous outcomes but I dont think sanctions and boyoctts are the best way to go about that, China is a huge country and billions of poor civilian's lives will just become even harder if that is the route the west goes , these people had no say or impact on the outcome of what happened

jmayo · 30-03-2020 12:37PM

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

The Chinese public are quick to boycott at any perceived slight on China. About time the civilised world started backing away from China.

Danny whats-his-face from IBEC was on with Pat Kenny this morning.

And they discussed how this whole thing will affect globalisation and how Trump will use it as an excuse to bring manufacturing like medicines and medical back to the states.

And how we will be affected.

Of course old Danny doesn't give a rat's ar** or should that be a bat's ar** that globalisation means that nearly every fooking thing we use is now manufactured in China, Vietnam, Cambodia.
Oh yeah we have the pharma companies, the computer and the social media companies here, but we have to send planes to China just to get some PPE that might keep our health staff alive.

We gained the Microsofts, the Facebooks, the Linkedins, the Googles, but there are fook all use to us when we need to stay alive.

Globalisation means higher incomes for some, but sweet fook all for others whose jobs go elsewhere that is cheaper.
It is about time a lot of politicians and the connected ones in the West realised this, so that we no longer have people turning to gimps like Trump and Brexit.

Marsden35 · 30-03-2020 12:37PM

wakka12 wrote: »

I think the Chinese government has committed wrongs that led to disastrous outcomes but I dont think sanctions and boyoctts are the best way to go about that, China is a huge country and billions of poor civilian's lives will just become even harder if that is the route the west goes , these people had no say or impact on the outcome of what happened

Not a boycott as such. Just reduce reliance and make sure all essential and health related items are made at home or split within a few manufacturers in Europe/western states.

thebaz · 30-03-2020 12:38PM

kenmm wrote: »

This thread has a lot of casual racism and general negativity concerning some parts of globalisation. But we take a lot of advantage from globalisation as well, maybe not in manufacturing, but other sectors would be doomed if we allowed other countries to take back their industries.

Post Covid I think many will question the real value of Globalisation - The main benificaries of a Globalised world are the large multi-nationals who sell more product and get cheaper labour - but has Globailsation been good for average citizens and Cultures of the Globalised world ?

Captcha · 30-03-2020 12:41PM

wakka12 wrote: »

I think the Chinese government has committed wrongs that led to disastrous outcomes but I dont think sanctions and boyoctts are the best way to go about that, China is a huge country and billions of poor civilian's lives will just become even harder if that is the route the west goes , these people had no say or impact on the outcome of what happened

Wrong, it is the ONLY way to do it.

Regular Chinese people are OK with concentration camps for Muslims, OK with organ harvesting prisoners of consciousness. Happy with no human rights or free speech as long as economy keeps growing and their children can be better off than them. They dont care if the world burns because of this if their economy keeps growing. It was slowing massively before this. Woulnt surprise me if CCP allowed the virus to spread to the west to cover up their economic issues which are collossal.

CCP Chinas only reason to remain in power is brutal authoritarianism and economic growth. Hitting their economy will be the biggest hit possible... Then let the people change things over there for themselves. They need pain to do this unfortunately.

Kivaro · 30-03-2020 12:54PM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Of course they are. But I expect this to get locked, as God forbid anyone pretends that this virus wasn't some fluke or bit of bad luck, and not a direct result of China's selfishness and dishonesty. We're supposed to let them play the racism card and not admit that they have just caused a global pandemic and recession, all so they can eat their bats.

Meanwhile, those of us who have done nothing wrong and are massively struggling to cope are shamed for going out for a walk or to buy some milk. You couldn't make it up.

I find it odd that threads that has any negative connotation about China is getting shut down fairly fast. There was one yesterday about the testing gear and masks that were sent from China, which is highly profitable to them but deadly to us (faulty gear), and that thread was deemed anti-Chinese and locked. Hopefully, this will not become a tabu subject on boards, as it needs to be discussed.

kenmm · 30-03-2020 01:02PM

thebaz wrote: »

Post Covid I think many will question the real value of Globalisation - The main benificaries of a Globalised world are the large multi-nationals who sell more product and get cheaper labour - but has Globailsation been good for average citizens and Cultures of the Globalised world ?

Oh, I agree, but lets not forget the numerous advantages we get from it too.

Not just cheap goods and travel, but lots of highly skilled and paid jobs too..

BanditLuke · 30-03-2020 01:21PM

Meanwhile in China

https://twitter.com/G_L_Kavanagh/status/1244584535259590656

Thelonious Monk · 30-03-2020 01:23PM

I really wish there was a cultural movement against mindless consumerism that fuels the likes of China's economy. It's kind of political suicide though in the current system to ask people to stop buying thing, so I don't really know how it can come about, unless it's led by something outside of politics. It really means looking at our current lifestyles and asking ourselves how quality of life is measured.
Next time you're buying a waffle making machine in lidl that you'll only use twice, ask yourself if you really need it.

frillyleaf · 30-03-2020 01:24PM

EmptyTree wrote: »

By that logic we shouldn't breed pig anymore as this contributed to the swine flu and as for the risk associated with poultry and bird flu...... While bat might sound odd to someone in the western world, the idea of eating cow in some parts of India would seem complete madness.

It’s the unsafe and inhumane practises that is the difference here. There is zero hygiene in these markets and mixing of all types of animal.

This needs to be stopped as does intensive farming of all animals

Rows Grower · 30-03-2020 01:26PM

Kivaro wrote: »

I find it odd that threads that has any negative connotation about China is getting shut down fairly fast. There was one yesterday about the testing gear and masks that were sent from China, which is highly profitable to them but deadly to us (faulty gear), and that thread was deemed anti-Chinese and locked. Hopefully, this will not become a tabu subject on boards, as it needs to be discussed.

Be sure to let us know if you find a better discussion forum we can all enjoy.

Moghead · 30-03-2020 01:30PM

Lads this all sounds slot like the BDS movement with Israel. Some people will take it up but it won't make a difference. If boycotts like this made a change we all would have boycotted US companies, services and goods when they were invading Iraq or meddling in Central America. The average person doesn't care and will continue to buy what the want or can afford.

kenmm · 30-03-2020 01:32PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I really wish there was a cultural movement against mindless consumerism that fuels the likes of China's economy. It's kind of political suicide though in the current system to ask people to stop buying thing, so I don't really know how it can come about, unless it's led by something outside of politics. It really means looking at our current lifestyles and asking ourselves how quality of life is measured.
Next time you're buying a waffle making machine in lidl that you'll only use twice, ask yourself if you really need it.

Absolutely - there is no point buying a Prius or paying lip service to environmental concerns (for example) if you get suckered into sh!te.

Ive really been trying to buy quality goods and only what I need - for example I use a Dell XPS laptop over equivalent MacBook because it really is a well designed and User Serviceable laptop (this is a small thing tho, as Dell wouldn't exactly be the most environmental company, but way better than Apple in my opinion).

My phone is over 3 years old and will keep going until it proper breaks, nit just because a new model has a slightly higher resolution.

This could be applied to lots of goods - clothing for example, lots of cheap crap and so many "seasons" to keep people buying..

As a society we have lost the run of many things, maybe a positive will be to reset that after all this calms down..

Thelonious Monk · 30-03-2020 01:38PM

frillyleaf wrote: »

It’s the unsafe and inhumane practises that is the difference here. There is zero hygiene in these markets and mixing of all types of animal.

This needs to be stopped as does intensive farming of all animals

Pigs in Ireland don't see the light of day from birth to death, sounds pretty abhorrent to me. The thought of paying more for meat and eating less of it doesn't wash with the Irish public though, and that would be necessary if we wanted our animals treated better. So I kind of thing this criticism of China is a bit rich coming from us.

B.A._Baracus · 30-03-2020 01:40PM

Those pics in op are messed up.
Really does showcase that the Chinese would eat anything.

Thelonious Monk · 30-03-2020 01:41PM

kenmm wrote: »

Absolutely - there is no point buying a Prius or paying lip service to environmental concerns (for example) if you get suckered into sh!te.

Ive really been trying to buy quality goods and only what I need - for example I use a Dell XPS laptop over equivalent MacBook because it really is a well designed and User Serviceable laptop (this is a small thing tho, as Dell wouldn't exactly be the most environmental company, but way better than Apple in my opinion).

My phone is over 3 years old and will keep going until it proper breaks, nit just because a new model has a slightly higher resolution.

This could be applied to lots of goods - clothing for example, lots of cheap crap and so many "seasons" to keep people buying..

As a society we have lost the run of many things, maybe a positive will be to reset that after all this calms down..

Yup, I was late to the smartphone party but I have managed to never actually buy one. There's always a friend or relative who gets a shiny new one and will give you their old one.

Captcha · 30-03-2020 01:42PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

Be sure to let us know if you find a better discussion forum we can all enjoy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CCP_virus/

https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/

https://www.reddit.com/r/China/

SuperRabbit · 30-03-2020 01:43PM

SARS, MERS, Foot and Mouth, BSE, Covid-19, meat meat meat meat. This could have started anywhere that farms meat, all it takes is for livestock to come into contact with wild animals. (Also pigs and birds seem to be especially likely to get viruses that we can get even without contact with wild animals?) Let's accept that sanitation and refrigeration etc. are worldwide issues that effect the whole world and maybe start a worldwide international government fund and program to make sure that poor people in every country have access to what they need to keep livestock and meat production safe.

We have international organizations that monitor nuclear power plants to make sure they are safe, we need them for this too. Clearly it's potentially more dangerous than a nuclear meltdown.

Don't act all holier than thou because you can afford to eat pork that comes from a farm in a rich country. Poor people need protein sources. All these pandemics will end when we can get reliably them that protein in a safe way. Ok, a lentil never caused a pandemic, but it's clear from western countries that people can eat meat without pandemics, but it requires a lot of regulation. And it requires richer people to pay for it.

Maybe the massive massive subsidies that are given to beef farmers in the EU to keep the price of beef artificially low could be spent on a fund to keep meat production around the world safe?

Dravokivich · 30-03-2020 01:46PM

citysights wrote: »

Does anyone remember a campaign we had before buy Irish, the number of products from Ireland would have a little symbol beside them on the receipt? I think we need to go back to producing more here. We don’t need a lot of the cheap tat we get from China, but while it’s in the shops people will buy it.

"Garanteed Irish," was gotten around, by having so many packaging facilities here. Which have pretty much mostly closed down, due to cheaper alternatives...

Captcha · 30-03-2020 01:46PM

SuperRabbit wrote: »

SARS, MERS, Foot and Mouth, BSE, Covid-19, meat meat meat meat. This could have started anywhere that farms meat, all it takes is for livestock to come into contact with wild animals. (Also pigs and birds seem to be especially likely to get viruses that we can get even without contact with wild animals?) Let's accept that sanitation and refrigeration etc. are worldwide issues that effect the whole world and maybe start a worldwide international government fund and program to make sure that poor people in every country have access to what they need to keep livestock and meat production safe.

We have international organizations that monitor nuclear power plants to make sure they are safe, we need them for this too. Clearly it's potentially more dangerous than a nuclear meltdown.

Don't act all holier than thou because you can afford to eat pork that comes from a farm in a rich country. Poor people need protein sources. All these pandemics will end when we can get reliably them that protein in a safe way. Ok, a lentil never caused a pandemic, but it's clear from western countries that people can eat meat without pandemics, but it requires a lot of regulation.

It was actually the rich people who supported these markets. They have a fetish for showing off their wealth and adventurism by eating wildly expensive and endangered exotic animals.

Sounds like you have another agenda which you are entitled to have (in this free country). This is not what China is

smelly sock · 30-03-2020 01:46PM

Look ive no idea what to say about this.

Ive been on here and reprimanded for calling the chinese out on the authenticity if their data and figures.

I firmly believe they would have committed human rights breaches in order to manipulate the cases and spread of this.

They shouldnt be seen as the "way to do things".

Trump is correct to call this a chinese virus.

Never though id say that trump was correct about anything.

BanditLuke · 30-03-2020 01:47PM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Those pics in op are messed up.
Really does showcase that the Chinese would eat anything.

No intention of looking at them as i watched a video recently of what they do to live animals including dogs and cats. The images are seered into my memory and im man enough to say they made me an emotional mess for a time and i still get angry thinking of it.

That said if viewing such stuff makes people think twice about China's role in the world and our overall responsibility to play a part in changing that then im all for it.

owlbethere · 30-03-2020 01:52PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Pigs in Ireland don't see the light of day from birth to death, sounds pretty abhorrent to me. The thought of paying more for meat and eating less of it doesn't wash with the Irish public though, and that would be necessary if we wanted our animals treated better. So I kind of thing this criticism of China is a bit rich coming from us.

When was the last time you saw a market here in Ireland or anywhere in Europe that had cages of pigs and other animals together?
When was the last time you saw a market here at home with live animals and dead animals layed out together for customers to buy?
When was the last time you saw pig being cooked alive here in Ireland?

https://youtu.be/2voAYkH7rUo

Please stop comparing Irelands farming, slaughtering and market practices to that of China's.

Thelonious Monk · 30-03-2020 01:54PM

owlbethere wrote: »

Please stop comparing Irelands farming, slaughtering and market practices to that of China's.

I'm just saying that we treat animals pretty horribly here too

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/farmer-jailed-for-18-months-after-pigs-ate-each-other-1.2101869

SuperRabbit · 30-03-2020 01:55PM

Captcha wrote: »

It was actually the rich people who supported these markets. They have a fetish for showing off their wealth and adventurism by eating wildly expensive and endangered exotic animals.

Sounds like you have another agenda which you are entitled to have (in this free country). This is not what China is

Did I say a single thing that wasn't true?

People see agendas everywhere now. Look at the origins of the pandemics I listed. If you have a nuclear power plant then every so often a team of international nuclear safety technicians come and check on it and make sure you are doing everything right. We're really doing a great job with nuclear safety, internationally. I think it's a pragmatic solution.

Ok you disagree that the money needs to come from every country to help fund implementation of health and safety regulations for poor people around the world, and that's probably true for China since the government have plenty money. But what about all the other countries where pandemics have started? Would it not be good to have an international agreement about care of livestock and meat to prevent this? And a fund to make that possible in poor countries? We can't exactly tell all of Nicaragua to go vegan overnight

Captcha · 30-03-2020 02:02PM

owlbethere wrote: »

When was the last time you saw a market here in Ireland or anywhere in Europe that had cages of pigs and other animals together?
When was the last time you saw a market here at home with live animals and dead animals layed out together for customers to buy?
When was the last time you saw pig being cooked alive here in Ireland?

https://youtu.be/2voAYkH7rUo

Please stop comparing Irelands farming, slaughtering and market practices to that of China's.

OMFG I wish I did not watch that video, its must be watched though

owlbethere · 30-03-2020 02:02PM

SuperRabbit wrote: »

SARS, MERS, Foot and Mouth, BSE, Covid-19, meat meat meat meat. This could have started anywhere that farms meat, all it takes is for livestock to come into contact with wild animals. (Also pigs and birds seem to be especially likely to get viruses that we can get even without contact with wild animals?) Let's accept that sanitation and refrigeration etc. are worldwide issues that effect the whole world and maybe start a worldwide international government fund and program to make sure that poor people in every country have access to what they need to keep livestock and meat production safe.

We have international organizations that monitor nuclear power plants to make sure they are safe, we need them for this too. Clearly it's potentially more dangerous than a nuclear meltdown.

Don't act all holier than thou because you can afford to eat pork that comes from a farm in a rich country. Poor people need protein sources. All these pandemics will end when we can get reliably them that protein in a safe way. Ok, a lentil never caused a pandemic, but it's clear from western countries that people can eat meat without pandemics, but it requires a lot of regulation. And it requires richer people to pay for it.

Maybe the massive massive subsidies that are given to beef farmers in the EU to keep the price of beef artificially low could be spent on a fund to keep meat production around the world safe?

I think I slightly agree with you here. I think we definitely do need to look at ourselves and our relationship to animals and farming practices. Also something to look at are animal circuses. I think it is something to look at and explore.

Would you agree that the market practices in China would have aggregated conditions and encouraged disease to occur? Live animals like pets, farm animals, exotic animals, rodents - all in cages and in close proximity to each other along. The majority of these animals would never meet or cross paths in their natural habitats. All these animals in cages at markets that includes dead animals and cooked animals.

suicide_circus · 30-03-2020 02:06PM

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. China wouldn't be the industrial giant it is without the increasing madness of western consumerism. We've become obese with "stuff" and crave the hit of more "stuff" and that's mostly made in China, or as you note other third world places where wages are measured in bowls of rice. Where often the Chinese have outsourced as their costs go up and their demographics shift.

The west needs to go on a consumerist diet. How many bloody phones do we need to buy? Ask the average westerner how many phones they've bought in the last ten years? How much other tat that gets thrown out or gathers dust? If we halved our consumption of same and brought more manufacturing back to Europe China would be forced to cop on and we'd be the better for it financially and mentally.

I practice what I preach as much as I can. I've long avoided buying stuff from China because of well, them being a totalitarian state with a long list of human(and animal) rights abuses. If I could buy a non Chinese made phone or laptop I would(both I use are five years old).

hang on now, i think we can agree that China's bronze age animal husbandry practices, as seen in these wet markets, predate western reliance on cheap Chinese manufacturing. China can build a hospital in 3 days, they're well aware of the source of this pandemic. I can't get on board with this kind of post colonial Orientalism where by its actually somehow our fault when the noble savage f*cks up.

Captcha · 30-03-2020 02:06PM

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Did I say a single thing that wasn't true?

People see agendas everywhere now. Look at the origins of the pandemics I listed. If you have a nuclear power plant then every so often a team of international nuclear safety technicians come and check on it and make sure you are doing everything right. We're really doing a great job with nuclear safety, internationally. I think it's a pragmatic solution.

Ok you disagree that the money needs to come from every country to help fund implementation of health and safety regulations for poor people around the world, and that's probably true for China since the government have plenty money. But what about all the other countries where pandemics have started? Would it not be good to have an international agreement about care of livestock and meat to prevent this? And a fund to make that possible in poor countries? We can't exactly tell all of Nicaragua to go vegan overnight

I dont disagree with you, I have cut down to meat once a day and only 4 days a week myself for nothing other than health reasons. I like to keep at this level because a certain amount of meat consumption is good for health I believe.

You are comparing China practices with ours. They are in totally different leagues and while things might not be ideal here in the west its making Chinese scenarios sound only a little bit worse, rather than the absolute horrific and unimaginably cruelty that they actually are

Coronavirus: Chinese wet markets still operation despite COVID-19

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