Buying wine on the Continent

JohnnyMustang22 · 23-03-2020 8:35am #1

What is the law with regard to getting the ferry to France and bringing wine back in bulk for personal consumption? When I mean bulk I would be thinking around 400 bottles. I always thought it was fine to do so as long as it was personal consumption but have read recently of people getting the goods confiscated.

When I lived in London I bought all of my wedding wine in France and there were no restrictions I was aware of. Many companies in London allowed you to taste in London, order there and then and if you spent more than £250 you got a tunnel crossing thrown in. I was buying €12-15 wines for €6-7. And before anyone chimes in regarding not saving that much money after ferry, fuel, etc it is also about selection of wines available there which are not imported to Ireland. And who doesn't love a road trip!

Does anyone know any good wine merchants in northern France? I will mostly be looking for drinking wines that range from €15-€35 here.

BeerNut · 23-03-2020 8:57am

JohnnyMustang22 wrote: »

I always thought it was fine to do so as long as it was personal consumption

It is. The tricky bit is convincing a customs officer that the 400 bottles are for personal consumption.

silver2020 · 23-03-2020 9:17am

I order online direct from a vineyard and keep under the 90 litre limits and have yet to have the wine stopped or extra duties added.

I do it once a year (for past 7 or 8 years now) for the new vintage released from this vineyard and took a delivery 2 week ago (no isolation issues for me

)

It not subversive delivery either, clearly states its wine, sent in UPS wine boxes and delivered direct to my home.

The revenue rules do state that you must accompany it, however this local rule (also in the UK) may not stand up in court and thus as it not a big issue, they just don't bother.

Same system for importing coal from Northern Ireland and local people close to the border getting heating oil - vice versa for NI residents getting road diesel from the south.

So once you are not being shady and try and describe it as bottled water, there should be no issue, but accept that you may be unlucky and get a jobsworth now and then,

JohnnyMustang22 · 23-03-2020 9:47am

BeerNut wrote: »

It is. The tricky bit is convincing a customs officer that the 400 bottles are for personal consumption.

We average about 3-4 bottles per week so its about 2 years worth and its not worth doing it for any less.

Is the burden of proof not with them to prove or have reasonable suspicion you are reselling it? If it came before a judge they would need to put some form of argument forward that they believed I was re selling the wine and at that point I would produce my online transactions from O'Briens which show the average amount of wine I buy over the previous 2-3 year period.

JohnnyMustang22 · 23-03-2020 9:48am

Interesting. Would you PM me the details of the vineyard?

silver2020 wrote: »

I order online direct from a vineyard and keep under the 90 litre limits and have yet to have the wine stopped or extra duties added.

I do it once a year (for past 7 or 8 years now) for the new vintage released from this vineyard and took a delivery 2 week ago (no isolation issues for me )

It not subversive delivery either, clearly states its wine, sent in UPS wine boxes and delivered direct to my home.

The revenue rules do state that you must accompany it, however this local rule (also in the UK) may not stand up in court and thus as it not a big issue, they just don't bother.

Same system for importing coal from Northern Ireland and local people close to the border getting heating oil - vice versa for NI residents getting road diesel from the south.

So once you are not being shady and try and describe it as bottled water, there should be no issue, but accept that you may be unlucky and get a jobsworth now and then,

brinty · 23-03-2020 9:54am

JohnnyMustang22 wrote:

Interesting. Would you PM me the details of the vineyard?

Interested too

MICKEYG · 23-03-2020 9:56am

And me

BeerNut · 23-03-2020 10:07am

JohnnyMustang22 wrote: »

Is the burden of proof not with them to prove or have reasonable suspicion you are reselling it?

It's you and a customs officer at a port. If they're going to take your stuff, they'll take your stuff. Revenue has been around a lot long than the police and they have powers of search and seizure much more powerful than the Gardaí's.

JohnnyMustang22 wrote: »

If it came before a judge they would need to put some form of argument forward that they believed I was re selling the wine

Probably. They will have your wine while the case is awaiting a hearing date. I very much doubt this actually happens, though.

Elegant Chaos · 23-03-2020 10:13am

There is a generally accepted guideline for what constitutes wine for personal consumption - I'm sure it's what Revenue would apply in practice if they were checking a car coming off a ferry. It's 90 litres, so 120 bottles. See the "goods bought in another EU country" table here.

Buddy97mm · 23-03-2020 10:30am

Elegant Chaos wrote: »

There is a generally accepted guideline for what constitutes wine for personal consumption - I'm sure it's what Revenue would apply in practice if they were checking a car coming off a ferry. It's 90 litres, so 120 bottles. See the "goods bought in another EU country" table here.

This is correct, 90 litres of wine (differing quantities for other products) is considered by the EU as the indicative guide as to what is permissible for human consumption, for quantities over this, the onus transfers to the person importing the product to demonstrate that it is for personal consumption (typically by showing it for a wedding, etc.). In this scenario, the wine must also be personally accompanied.

Companies, including foreign companies in other EU states, can set up as Revenue approved consignors in Ireland for the purpose of delivering wine from the their countries. In such instances, the consignor effectively pre-pays the Irish duties and the consumer seamlessly receives the product they order. The Sunday Times Wine Club was one of the first of these, not sure if there are very many of them around but they are obviously completely legit.

If buying wine or any other alcohol online from someone who is not registered as outlined, there is a very strong chance it will be detained and seized - it's not like it is easy to conceal a number of cases of wine in the post as might be teh case for other product.

Mellor · 23-03-2020 9:57pm

JohnnyMustang22 wrote: »

If it came before a judge they would need to put some form of argument forward that they believed I was re selling the wine and at that point I would produce my online transactions from O'Briens which show the average amount of wine I buy over the previous 2-3 year period.

And you might get your wine back. But you’d also be out if pocket fir the court appearances.

Buying wine on the Continent

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