Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

NH2013 · 22-03-2020 04:42PM

EchoIndia wrote: »

Hainan already flew A333s to Dublin from China last year. Are the EI ones less capable?

EI A330-300HGWs 242T MTOW aircraft should definitely be capable with only Cargo loads and no passengers. No reason it shouldn't work direct to Beijing.

WishUWereHere · 22-03-2020 05:07PM

NH2013 wrote: »

EI A330-300HGWs 242T MTOW aircraft should definitely be capable with only Cargo loads and no passengers. No reason it shouldn't work direct to Beijing.

When do these 6 per day flights start? And is Beijing the destination?

GREAT to see AL being used like this!

sherology · 22-03-2020 05:24PM

WishUWereHere wrote: »

When do these 6 per day flights start? And is Beijing the destination?

GREAT to see AL being used like this!

It is indeed. Those big bellies coming in useful in times like these. That's a lot of the LH fleet in use then. I think you might find EI cargo being called into action more than ever as airlines ground fleets (and their belly-cargo), large international/interline airlines included (Emirates grounding entire fleet from March 25 - that's a lot of belly space from Aisa) etc.

We do a lot of trade in Ireland for a small island, and with only EI having a large cargo operation... It could be it's saving grace. Good luck shamrock

marno21 · 22-03-2020 05:53PM

Even with all the belly space, China Eastern have been re-purposing the passenger cabins of some of their 777 and A330s

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1241546916963348480

sherology · 22-03-2020 05:56PM

marno21 wrote: »

Even with all the belly space, China Eastern have been re-purposing the passenger cabins of some of their 777 and A330s

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1241546916963348480

Maybe EI can pick up some of those nets when in China. The medical equipment/tests/PPE is very light. Using the seats and/or the overhead bins would be very cost-effective. Weights and balance calculations would be similar to passenger loads (I would assume lighter than passengers). No cabin crew or cabin passengers to worry about... airline shown landing in EU... Safe and EASA approved method therefore?

sparrowcar · 22-03-2020 06:01PM

marno21 wrote: »

Even with all the belly space, China Eastern have been re-purposing the passenger cabins of some of their 777 and A330s

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1241546916963348480

How are they getting those pallets in through the passenger doors?

sherology · 22-03-2020 06:02PM

sparrowcar wrote: »

How are they getting those pallets in through the passenger doors?

Look closer... The boxes are netted to the seats

LXFlyer · 22-03-2020 06:03PM

sparrowcar wrote: »

How are they getting those pallets in through the passenger doors?

One box at a time presumably. They’re not on pallets but are on the seats.

goingnowhere · 22-03-2020 06:06PM

Thats good old fashioned human chain to load the stuff via all available doors

kona · 22-03-2020 06:14PM

sherology wrote: »

Maybe EI can pick up some of those nets when in China. The medical equipment/tests/PPE is very light. Using the seats and/or the overhead bins would be very cost-effective. Weights and balance calculations would be similar to passenger loads (I would assume lighter than passengers). No cabin crew or cabin passengers to worry about... airline shown landing in EU... Safe and EASA approved method therefore?

Id say some sort of crew will be required to secure the cabin.

sherology · 22-03-2020 06:19PM

kona wrote: »

Id say some sort of crew will be required to secure the cabin.

If so, they'd be safe in the business cabin separated from the economy cabins by a double galley... So... Safe to carry cargo like this in EU-land? I ask as earlier this week there were posts stating this type of cargo carrying would need recertification/paperwork type stuff. Assume that this (China Eastern) approach is possible as the aircraft shown were landing in the EU.

NH2013 · 22-03-2020 06:23PM

kona wrote: »

Id say some sort of crew will be required to secure the cabin.

Could probably be done between the cargo loaders and the pilots on the flight, don't see why they'd need a cabin crew person to be involved in a cargo operation.

goingnowhere · 22-03-2020 06:29PM

EI has strapped stuff down to seats before for emergency aid shipments to disaster areas.

I'd guess you would send out 2 captains, 2 senior FO's + a engineer to manage the job and loading. You don't want to get stuck down country at location like Shenzhen through illness or a tech issue.

nsa0bupkd3948x · 22-03-2020 06:35PM

Has it been announced when the first of these flights will happen?

WishUWereHere · 22-03-2020 07:42PM

marno21 wrote: »

Even with all the belly space, China Eastern have been re-purposing the passenger cabins of some of their 777 and A330s

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/status/1241546916963348480

I have just glanced the Twitter page mentioned above. On it, it says Wizz air flying from Budapest to Shanghai for medical supplies, 2 Austrian Airlines 777's flying to Xiamen for medical supplies, an Antonov 124 with 106 tons of medical supplies on its way from Shenzhen to Pardubice via Karachi.

Anyone know where AL are flying to? Or perhaps it's more than one City/Airport?

kona · 22-03-2020 07:46PM

NH2013 wrote: »

Could probably be done between the cargo loaders and the pilots on the flight, don't see why they'd need a cabin crew person to be involved in a cargo operation.

Training with fire and evacuation procedures, arm and disarm of doors, making tea:pac:

A cargo loader would require training for the above.

kona · 22-03-2020 07:47PM

sherology wrote: »

If so, they'd be safe in the business cabin separated from the economy cabins by a double galley... So... Safe to carry cargo like this in EU-land? I ask as earlier this week there were posts stating this type of cargo carrying would need recertification/paperwork type stuff. Assume that this (China Eastern) approach is possible as the aircraft shown were landing in the EU.

Yes it would need recertification if the seats were removed, also china eastern are not under easa so would fall under the chinese authority and their rules and regulations, which are obviously deemed by easa to be acceptable to operate into the eu. Easa have the power to spot check these airlines as part of audits done to ensure their standards are acceptable to easa.Just because they operate into the eu doesnt mean that they operate to easa standards for maintenace or flight ops. For example aer lingus will be operating into china under their easa and iaa approved aoc, not under a chinese one.

Removing seats etc would require a modification to be issued by either a p21 or the type certificate holder to be carrried out under a easa 145 maintenance organisation, such modifications cost a absoloute fortune.

Pete2k · 22-03-2020 07:58PM

Reece Embarrassed Judo wrote: »

Has it been announced when the first of these flights will happen?

I think Coveney said later this week

rameire · 22-03-2020 08:19PM

Reece Embarrassed Judo wrote: »

Has it been announced when the first of these flights will happen?

Saturday.

sherology · 22-03-2020 08:22PM

kona wrote: »

Yes it would need recertification if the seats were removed, also china eastern are not under easa so would fall under the chinese authority and their rules and regulations, which are obviously deemed by easa to be acceptable to operate into the eu. Easa have the power to spot check these airlines as part of audits done to ensure their standards are acceptable to easa.Just because they operate into the eu doesnt mean that they operate to easa standards for maintenace or flight ops. For example aer lingus will be operating into china under their easa and iaa approved aoc, not under a chinese one.

Removing seats etc would require a modification to be issued by either a p21 or the type certificate holder to be carrried out under a easa 145 maintenance organisation, such modifications cost a absoloute fortune.

And without removal of seats as in the shown example (boxes netted to the seats)... That's okay to do?

kona · 22-03-2020 08:25PM

sherology wrote: »

And without removal of seats as in the shown example (boxes netted to the seats)... That's okay to do?

Yup as long as the boxes dont exceed the 80kg or so per pax thats used for weight and balance, and the cargo nets are approved for use with the seats and have burn certs then fire away.
As i said it would require cabin crew or another suitably qualified person(s) to secure the cabin for fire safety and to ensure nothing has moved. The removal and installation of the nets would have to be signed off by a type approved engineer.

So nothing to stop ei from doing it.

NH2013 · 22-03-2020 08:25PM

kona wrote: »

Training with fire and evacuation procedures, arm and disarm of doors, making tea:pac:

A cargo loader would require training for the above.

Surely the pilots would be trained in all of the above, even making their own tea? :pac:

All cargo airlines like Fed-Ex or CargoLux hardly have cabin crew, just pilots on board? Can't see an Aer Lingus cargo operation being any different, even if it meant having to make their own tea.

kona · 22-03-2020 08:38PM

NH2013 wrote: »

Surely the pilots would be trained in all of the above, even making their own tea? :pac:

All cargo airlines like Fed-Ex or CargoLux hardly have cabin crew, just pilots on board? Can't see an Aer Lingus cargo operation being any different, even if it meant having to make their own tea.

Have to be 2 persons in the cockpit at all times after german wings. Aer lingus wont be operating under a cargo aoc, so im not entirely sure how it will work. I do know that when 330s operate for base maintenance theres 3 onboard.

goingnowhere · 22-03-2020 08:49PM

You don't need to lock the cockpit if there are no one onboard...

Flight time would require a third pilot, so they do a cabin secure. Depending on the handling available you might send a engineer out to supervise loading and to do the release as you need a line inspection every 48 hours

NH2013 · 22-03-2020 08:49PM

kona wrote: »

Have to be 2 persons in the cockpit at all times after german wings. Aer lingus wont be operating under a cargo aoc, so im not entirely sure how it will work. I do know that when 330s operate for base maintenance theres 3 onboard.

Don't think that applies to cargo flights, only passenger ones, aircraft are regularly flown by just two pilots in Aer Lingus I believe when being repositioned or going to or from maintenance.

basill · 22-03-2020 08:51PM

Why close the door at all? It’s usually left open with no pax onboard.

Also lets not get caught up in all this bluster about rules and regulations. There are various alleviation’s happening on an almost daily basis given the current situation. This is about the preservation of life, saving of airlines is a very distant secondary goal. The regulators are thankfully singing from the same hymn sheet.

sherology · 22-03-2020 08:52PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

You don't need to lock the cockpit if there are no one onboard...

Flight time would require a third pilot, so they do a cabin secure. Depending on the handling available you might send a engineer out to supervise loading and to do the release as you need a line inspection every 48 hours

One might assume, with the availability of crew and engineers etc., and reduced working hours etc. they'd send plenty of assistance (wouldn't be tight-wads that is).

IngazZagni · 22-03-2020 09:04PM

kona wrote: »

Have to be 2 persons in the cockpit at all times after german wings. Aer lingus wont be operating under a cargo aoc, so im not entirely sure how it will work. I do know that when 330s operate for base maintenance theres 3 onboard.

Rubbish. Why do I have to keep saying this? It is not an EASA rule. It is required in certain circumstances such as not having cctv with passengers on board and some airlines have it as part of their own rules.

Positioning flights with 2 pilots happen all the time. So is one of them not allowed to go to the toilet?

donkey balls · 22-03-2020 09:17PM

The likes of FedEx get catering delivered to the aircraft for the flight crew normally 2/3 meals and unlimited drinks the meals cannot be the same just like pax operating flights.
In the galley they have microwave/oven and water for making tea/coffee, On the MD11/MD10 if there is 3 crew flying normally the Capt will take his rest first with the RFO taking his seat and they just rotate.
Cockpit door normally stays open and the lads change into t shirts and shorts.
The MD11 still have 2/3 biz class seats in them and behind it would be the fire door and g net.
My mate was telling me that each aircraft on landing is disinfected with some spray approved by Boeing,

billy few mates · 22-03-2020 09:39PM

kona wrote: »

Yup as long as the boxes dont exceed the 80kg or so per pax thats used for weight and balance, and the cargo nets are approved for use with the seats and have burn certs then fire away.
As i said it would require cabin crew or another suitably qualified person(s) to secure the cabin for fire safety and to ensure nothing has moved. The removal and installation of the nets would have to be signed off by a type approved engineer.

So nothing to stop ei from doing it.

Strictly speaking I'm not sure it would be allowed in normal circumstances but then again these aren't normal circumstances so I'd imagine the authorities would exercise a fair degree of 'social distancing' when it comes to policing the finer details of something like this for the foreseeable future.

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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