Keeping an old car as a future "classic" / restoration project - yay or nay?

Rowley Birkin QC · 18-03-2020 12:50PM #1

My first BMW was an 2002 E46 318Ci - MSport. Two litre, four cylinder, not very fast at all but looked the part when I was younger. Kept it as OEM as possible with the exception of an Android (OEM looking) head unit, OEM M3 LED tail lights and new headlights, also OEM looking. It's a clean car, de-badged, has had the timing chain done and is overall in great condition for a near 20 year old car.

I was lucky enough to be able to park it up in a dry, secure warehouse when I bought my next car and it has sat there happily until recently when the space was needed back and it's parked up relatively securely but exposed to the elements outside my house. I've always thought it would be cool to have when I was older, logic being that at some point people decided to park up Twin Cams, Cortinas, MkII Escorts etc. so that they could be resurrected again in the future. Potentially even a candidate for a 6 cylinder engine swap.

The car isn't costing me anything at the moment just sitting there but if I keep it, I'll need to find somewhere suitable to store it for the longer term with no particular end date in mind.

I put it for sale without thinking too much of it but now I have an offer and I need to decide. My question to the good petrol-heads of boards is have you:
A) Sold the car and regretted it after

Sold the car and had no regrets
C) Kept the car, fixed it up and will keep it forever
D) Kept the car, it's slowly disintegrating in front of you!

Other opinions welcome. Thanks!
Obviously thread is useless without pictures so current & previous below. A longer term notion is to move up to a 4-Series / M235i at some point soon and have one of each generation.

Manic Moran · 18-03-2020 06:22PM

Something else, see my answer.

I'm in the "Kept, and it's deteriorating" camp, but it does slightly exaggerate the issue. Don't seem to have a good public image of the thing uploaded, but mine's the one on the far right here. (At 340hp, it's far and away the slowest car in that lineup). A 2005 S4 Cabrio, built back in the short period of time that Audi was squeezing a V8 into the thing.

I keep it mainly for four reasons.
1) It's just plain fun to drive. It'll probably be the last car I ever get with a manual transmission, it's nimble, it's a convertible...
2) It's well paid off, and doesn't cost me anything much to keep. (About $200/year tax/insurance). It's been long retired from daily service. I put barely 2,000 miles a year on.
3) I have not yet run out of room in my garage. I haven't a cause to sell it. And it's nice to have when the daily driver's in the shop or to loan to visitors from out of town, etc.
4) It's rare and I hope it'll become a classic. 2005 may not seem that old, and there are plenty of older cars out there. However, there are apparently under 300 still on the road in the UK. I gather that under 600 were ever imported into the entirety of North America. I can't recall the last time I saw a 2005 S4 Cabrio. (I did see a 2006 two years ago, it had an automatic). If nothing else, it has potential, I see no less than some of what we now know to be classics would have had back in their day. Of course, those classics are now five decades old, but I'm in no hurry to sell.

She is still a runner, within limitations. The first big one is that the air conditioner is out. Which is an issue in central Texas. She will soon need her timing chain guides replaced. Both require pulling the engine block out. And there are some cosmetic issues, such as the windshield needing a bit of replacing (It's all 'sparkly' after 130,000 miles of road debris), some of the interior trim is coming loose, and some dings etc on the outside, but overall, nothing critical. As long as I can get the air compressor components including the engine drive shaft and, hopefully, a new windshield, most everything can be brought back to "as new" looking. Oh, and the clouded headlights are annoying. The chances are the roof may need replacing as well, which is apparently the only fix for the rear window starting to fall off. Which seems odd, but anyway. It's the one car of my three I did not drive from California to Texas, instead flatbedding it. I'm fairly sure it could have made the trip, but I didn't want to eat into its mileage-remaining-before-it-has-to-be-taken-off-the-road reserve. All when I have the money for it, that is.

Which is the problem. I figure I need to sink about $10-12k into the car to get it fully back up to spec. Maybe $7k to get it back into "I feel I can drive this year round comfortable in the knowledge that I won't die in the heat and the chain won't fall off". The car currently is worth, oh, $3-4k on the open market, at best. Probably more value in it for parts. I'm not keeping it, per se, for collector's value in terms of dollars. After all, that's only important if I decide I want to sell it, which I can't see myself ever doing. It's simply, "I like the car, want to keep it, and want to show it off in the future." However, I sure as hell do not have $10k to spend on a car I don't use much right now. As a result, my focus isn't in "restoration", it's in "Preservation". For the first 10 years of its life, it lived outdoors. Now it's in a garage, it at least has stopped its "disintegrating in front of me", which is now being limited really to anything held on with glue. I'm sure, one day, I'll have the money for fixing it. As long as it's not so far in the future that parts are no longer available.

You seem to have a better headstart than I do on preservation. Your BMW is a couple of years older, and looks fantastic. I'd certainly look into getting some sort of cover for it. If it's not taking up room, not costing you much money, and you don't need to sell it, why do so?

galwaytt · 19-03-2020 12:41PM

Sold the car and had no regrets

I'm right where you are now on an 01 car. Having comitted hari-kiri on this more than once before, this time I'm def keeping it.

Andrewf20 · 19-03-2020 01:13PM

Kept the car, it's slowly disintegrating in front of me!

I have a 96 3 series. The rot underneath nearly killed it but I decided to pull the plug and get it restored. Glad I did now. Wish I had a garage as keeping these cars dry in our climate is such a huge bonus. You need to keep driving them otherwise they rot so I take mine out twice a week.

I never understood the idea of parking old cars up for months on end to save a bit on tax. I reckon you would just incur more mechanical bills in the long run.

Manic Moran · 20-03-2020 05:50AM

Something else, see my answer.

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I have a 96 3 series. The rot underneath nearly killed it but I decided to pull the plug and get it restored. Glad I did now. Wish I had a garage as keeping these cars dry in our climate is such a huge bonus. You need to keep driving them otherwise they rot so I take mine out twice a week.

I never understood the idea of parking old cars up for months on end to save a bit on tax. I reckon you would just incur more mechanical bills in the long run.

A valid enough observation. Even just turning the engine over every now and then ought to keep some expensive to replace seals from drying out. That said, a year shouldn't be too much of a problem for an early 2000s car. I remember leaving an 8 year old 2001 Camaro in outdoor northern Nevada storage (serious temperature change) for a full year when I was in Afghanistan, no significant problem.

Still, I like options and backups, having the spare car road legal just seems to make sense

TrailerBob · 20-03-2020 09:52AM

I'm 100% in the keep it category if you can. All depends on storage. My project is nothing spectacular, a 96 Fiat Cinquecento sporting, but it was my wife's first car and it's a two owner low mile example. Sadly it sat outside for a long time before I got it to my sheds, so there's a bit to be done. It's also my plan for my daily driver (03 cruiser) when I get around to replacing it

Mate has a 2000 Jag XJ8 parked up in a shed.. that'll be a nice classic bus when the time comes.

Titzon Toast · 20-03-2020 03:59PM

Kept the car, it's slowly disintegrating in front of me!

Keep it, you'll regret it I'd you don't. I parked my 97 Prelude on my driveway for a year and it didn't appreciate it one bit.
It's been in storage for the last two years now and and I've been fixing it up along the way.
Keeping them dry and out of the elements is essential if they're not being driven regularly.

Some miles are far better than none.

ba_barabus · 20-03-2020 04:10PM

Titzon Toast wrote: »

Keeping them dry and out of the elements is essential if they're not being driven regularly.

Above all else this is vital.

Even the best of cars will rust.

The E46 is lovely btw

ELM327 · 20-03-2020 04:13PM

Sold the car and had no regrets

Even for the reg and the color that's worth keeping!

antodeco · 20-03-2020 04:16PM

I've a 1998 2.8 Z3. I bought this a few years with the plan to keep it and restore as I go along. I have a lockup to keep it dry and secure. Every year I do a little bit of work on it. It gets driven for 6 months of the year (tax is too much) but it puts a smile on my face everyday.

I also have 2 fully restored minis (1976 and 1980) that I absolutely adore. So if you can afford to keep it, with somewhere to store it, 100% do it.

CianRyan · 20-03-2020 10:49PM

I'm in both the kept and deteriorating camp and the sold and regretted it camp.

My 1990 MX5 was a lot g term project that I shed because I was broke, instant regret.
My RX8 gave me trouble for about 3 months, I got pissed off and sold it, I instantly regret it.

I cant see a 318 ever being a classic but if it means a lot to you, I wouldn't sell it.

galwaytt · 20-03-2020 11:46PM

Sold the car and had no regrets

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I never understood the idea of parking old cars up for months on end to save a bit on tax. I reckon you would just incur more mechanical bills in the long run.

I park mine a bit - but the 'bit of tax' you refer to when the annual is €1,809 is a Big Bit.

Wibbs · 20-03-2020 11:54PM

Sold the car and had no regrets

If you hang onto it RB, fill it to the gunnels with anti rust wax/treatments. And start to stockpile some spares. The oily bits are not such an issue, they usually remain fairly well catered for. Same for running gear as a general rule. It's things like wings, bumpers, that sort of thing. Now worst case a good panel chappie with a welder can rebuild damn near anything, but costs are way down if you have a spare panel. Lights another. A small tip in a Supervalu car park by a dozey muppet can take out a headlight. Interior trim. Particularly the bits you regularly touch and anything specific to your car.

I kept my old car by mistake but learned of the above from rellies who are into classics.

Henry Ford III · 21-03-2020 10:34AM

It's only ever the top end models that will be future classics imho.

In a 3 series BMW that's the M3 only.

whisky_galore · 21-03-2020 10:46AM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's only ever the top end models that will be future classics imho.

In a 3 series BMW that's the M3 only.

I disagree. I like to see older light commercials and humble everyday cars. The high end dick waving stuff I have little interest in, they have plenty fans in any case.

Leonard Hofstadter · 21-03-2020 12:24PM

The six cylinder models will always be worth money, just look at the price E36s and E30s go for. Well minded four cylinder models are also worth money, although less desirable than the six cylinder units.

At the moment E46s aren't worth much, and they are probably still too new for people to get nostalgic about the way people get misty eyed about E36s and especially E30s, but I think (hope!) that will change as they start to become eligible for classic insurance, the oldest cars are now 21 years old.

They also have a lot of features that are simply not available in newer cars, like hydraulic power steering, a slick and snappy manual gearbox, a proper handbrake and all the petrol engines were naturally aspirated with port injection. There were no fake exhaust notes in the cabin, either. Sure even the traditional BMW red-orange instrument backlighting and glow in the centre console at night are gone now as well. Not only was it a BMW 'thing', that colour is the best for minimising driver distraction from the road at night, that's why BMW went for it in the first place, their research showed it puts the least amount of strain on the eyes at night (the physics of light waves backs this up).

White backlighting, as BMW has unfortunately moved to now, might look 'nicer' and more 'modern', and might win BMW a few more sales, but is one of the most distracting colours for your eyes at night - only blue, as inflicted by VW on the Mk4 Golf and other VWs from that era, is worse.

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-03-2020 12:31PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's only ever the top end models that will be future classics imho.

In a 3 series BMW that's the M3 only.

That's why I have classic in inverted commas above. Classic to me as opposed to being worth a fortune or being in high demand to other people.

Thanks all for the replies.

I've started looking at car covers after going to see it earlier in the week.....

ARGINITE · 21-03-2020 12:50PM

Kept the car, it's slowly disintegrating in front of me!

Have a 95 BMW E38 730i that's currently being worked on and a Mazda RX8 that I'm looking to put into storage.

scamalert · 21-03-2020 01:06PM

Kept the car, it's slowly disintegrating in front of me!

well you said it yourself, you are lucky to be able to have it, looks stunning and dont imagine it will change much, if you put in effort and didnt get rid of it early, id say you would regret selling it for whatever price, as having any classic in almost mint shape in the future will be something that will have memories, yes maybe not next 5 years but 10-15, people will twist their heads at it, def keep it, the elements is main issue while cover will provide some safety, in reality youd want something like it was before empty dry place, theres few prep steps that could be taken to preserve it better overall if wont drive it for years, but think main value will be having something that wont exist in time, as old yokes go you always seeing them bring back memories of time when it was simpler times, and imagine most people who can afford that dont care much what spec its more of sentimental value and overall upkeep that makes them happy to have something they can bring out over weekends onto road.

unkel · 21-03-2020 01:31PM

Lovely E46. Well worth keeping. The M-sport coupes are brilliant drivers' cars, even your 318Ci with its humble 2l 4 pot engine. I've had a few of them myself.

KevRossi · 21-03-2020 01:47PM

Kept the car, it's slowly disintegrating in front of me!

Keep it, you'll regret it. I've owned probably 30 cars over the years and have regretted selling 3 of them, and if you forced me, then there's 2 I would have/should have kept. I've even offered to buy them back from the current owners years later and they refused.

You need to fully waxoly it, then decide if you'll start it occasionally and drive it, or if it's going to be laid up for a while. Work it out from there. You seem to have space, so consider building a garage, shed, or at the least a carport. Cover it up no matter what you do and keep the interior dehumidified.

I've an 01 SAAB that I'm keeping, parked up, gets started and driven on a boreen every so often, has been that ways since 2013 and it's technically still in top nick.

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-03-2020 05:17PM

unkel wrote: »

Lovely E46. Well worth keeping. The M-sport coupes are brilliant drivers' cars, even your 318Ci with its humble 2l 4 pot engine. I've had a few of them myself.

Yeah, it's a funny one. The E92 is a 3.0 6 cylinder but the E46 is so much lighter and "chuckable" even with a very modest power output that it's just as much fun.

RandomViewer · 21-03-2020 05:24PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

It's only ever the top end models that will be future classics imho.

In a 3 series BMW that's the M3 only.

Any old mk1 or 2 escort is making silly money , MGs and old Triumphs are apparently collectable , 84 too 92 3series seems t be desirable no matter the spec, not everyone wants something overcomplicated

Henry Ford III · 22-03-2020 09:50AM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Any old mk1 or 2 escort is making silly money , MGs and old Triumphs are apparently collectable , 84 too 92 3series seems t be desirable no matter the spec, not everyone wants something overcomplicated

I own a MkII RS2000.

They make the big money. The nicest 4 door 1.3L Escort is worth about 1/3 the value of an RS model.

Keeping an old car as a future "classic" / restoration project - yay or nay?

Keep or sell? 27 votes

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