RTE cameraman attacked by Gardai

mynamejeff · 07-03-2020 08:23PM

assuming the upcoming euros take place as panned I wonder if the expected groups of hooligans will be allowed to roam the streets causing carnage because the gardai aren't allowed to engage them for fear of offending some one who hadn't the scene to get out of the wat of a line of riot police

and what the response of the idiots here will be

07-03-2020 08:38PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

since this verdict was handed down, many Guards are simply handing back their public order gear and withdrawing from the volunteer list for POU duty, because they feel they have no support for reasonable force in dangerous situations so they and members of the public are now endangered themselves.
.

Well exactly this, as is typical of the response by Garda management.
Same when a young guard was prosecuted in court for driving with blue lights & sirens on, actually within speed limits, he hit a pedestrian & was prosecuted.
He got no backing from his management.
Guards are on their own, even if they are just doing their job.

However, guards being guards, they will continue to do their job, even when they have good cause to say no.

Better Than Christ · 08-03-2020 12:15AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

In your example, you knew there were protests happening quite often, but still went that same route. Would it have been too much of a bother to avoid that 1 street? If i'm not mistaken, lots of Dublin (and Irish cities in general) are in a square pattern, wouldn't have been much trouble to avoid the area imo (don't know the area so I could be mistaken).

Because of the crowds, I deliberately avoided walking down the street where the (completely safe and peaceful) protest was actually happening. I was shoved by the guard on the adjoining Kildare St, which was fully open to traffic and pedestrians at the time. I couldn't avoid it because I had to catch a bus from there. It was clear to me at the time that the guards were trying to contain the protest on Molesworth St in order to prevent Kildare St from grinding to a halt too, which was completely understandable. Assaulting random people was, to put it mildly, not understandable at all.

Potential-Monke wrote:

And you are right, if you had turned around it probably wouldn't have been taken the way you'd like and be seen as a refusal and possibly escalate.

I find that troubling. That their response to something so passive as stopping and turning around would be to use further violence. I find it impossible to have any respect for an organisation that behaves like that.

Muahahaha · 08-03-2020 06:15PM

Pedro K wrote: »

I've seen similar happen after football matches. Some of the public order unit are absolute gowls who are dying for it to kick off.

I think part of the problem with public order units in any police force is that when they recruit them they are obviously looking for lads who dont mind being in a scrap and indeed many of them might enjoy it. Theres a balance to be found, they need people who can handle severe aggression but their own aggression has to be controlled and within the laws set down.

The UK Met had a big overhaul of how their officers deal with necessary force during protests after the case of Ian Tomlinson, a newspaper seller who died after an officer struck him from behind his back with a baton. That case was a watershed in the UK for police behaviour as it came out that the Met had immediately set in motion the beginnings of a cover up after he died. Initially they denied engaging with Tomlinson at all that day but then several different videos of the incident emerged revealing this to be lies. In the videos before he died he was shown walking away from police officers with his hands in his pockets when he was attacked from behind and pushed to the ground.

In the subsequent enquiry it came out that the officer who assaulted Tomlinson involved had been the subject of 10 complaints from members of the public in 12 years. Complaints involved multiple assaults and a road rage incident when he was off duty. It also emerged that he had removed his identity numbers off his shoulder and had failed to record any notes of the assault in his notebook as required by law. On top of that earlier in the day he had assaulted a BBC cameraman and put him to the ground. In the end the officer was charged with manslaughter but was aquitted but the Met sacked him for gross misconduct and using excessive and illegal force.

LaFuton · 08-03-2020 06:16PM

durty bastid

pgj2015 · 08-03-2020 06:22PM

LaFuton wrote: »

durty bastid

great contribution.

Potential-Monke · 08-03-2020 06:23PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

had been the subject of 10 complaints from members of the public in 12 years

Just on that, and not defending this lad in the slightest, but that's not a lot of complaints in 12 years. Scumbags lodge complaints just because they feel hard done by, so I'd take some of them with a pinch of salt. While it does appear to paint a better picture of this scum cop (who hits someone from behind, pure scum behavior), I just wanted to point out that nearly every cop gets a few complaints, simply just for doing their job. Complaints board will entertain anyone.

08-03-2020 06:31PM

So I'm curious.. what makes the videographer any different from anyone else in that video that got a belt of a baton?

Surely, if the Garda is done for hitting the RTE lad, then they can be done for hitting anyone else, too? There's a chap at the start of the video that has "legal viewer" or something like that scribbled on his hi-vis, and he's belted by a baton as he walks away form the Garda (ie; with his back to the Garda).

Surely he's just as entitled (if not more so!) to go and get a few Euro in compensation for the sleepless nights he had.

Also, kind of irrelevant, but I love that RTE cut the video the minute the camera is tapped, as if that broke the camera or something. :rolleyes: I'm surprised they didn't add some static special effects to make it look like the camera was knackered altogether.

(As an aside, I've experience as a pro photojournalist - I've never gotten hit with a baton, but just out of curiosity, did RTE man get any compensation? Just so I know where to stand if there's a protest on again anytime soon.. :P )

Potential-Monke · 08-03-2020 06:53PM

Something about journalists being special people who deserve special treatment so they can be in the thick of it and record it all for the masses to lap up in shock journalism. As far as I'm concerned, if there's a public order line and it's moving towards you, fast, shouting get back, you get back, regardless of who you are.

And yes, convenient timing for the camera to 'break'. :rolleyes:

The Tetrarch · 08-03-2020 07:27PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Something about journalists being special people who deserve special treatment so they can be in the thick of it and record it all for the masses to lap up in shock journalism. As far as I'm concerned, if there's a public order line and it's moving towards you, fast, shouting get back, you get back, regardless of who you are.

And yes, convenient timing for the camera to 'break'. :rolleyes:

A few of the population might not like your police state.
The law applies to everyone. A jury of his peers found him guilty.

Plumbthedepths · 09-03-2020 02:32AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Something about journalists being special people who deserve special treatment so they can be in the thick of it and record it all for the masses to lap up in shock journalism. As far as I'm concerned, if there's a public order line and it's moving towards you, fast, shouting get back, you get back, regardless of who you are.

And yes, convenient timing for the camera to 'break'. :rolleyes:

Wasn't the problem for the guard in question that he stepped out of the line to strike the camera man? I've served in the military I never found someone operating a camera as a threat, the person with two free hands is a different story.

Larbre34 · 09-03-2020 05:41AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Wasn't the problem for the guard in question that he stepped out of the line to strike the camera man? I've served in the military I never found someone operating a camera as a threat, the person with two free hands is a different story.

In the footage he steps out of the line and strikes a few people in the protesting group as they try to push them back up the street. I guess being able to discern relative threats in a mob of people is proportional to how scared or adrenalined you are yourself at that moment.

Potential-Monke · 15-03-2020 11:50AM

The Tetrarch wrote: »

A few of the population might not like your police state.
The law applies to everyone. A jury of his peers found him guilty.

I'm not disputing it, but a Jury of peers will not know what it's like to police a public order line. Not excusing it, but a jury of peers are not peers to a Garda, imo. Different worlds.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Wasn't the problem for the guard in question that he stepped out of the line to strike the camera man? I've served in the military I never found someone operating a camera as a threat, the person with two free hands is a different story.

Yeah, he does that. But that happens with nearly every line over here. It's not as military as other countries, which leads to less of a line and more of an area most times. As someone mentioned, if he was the public order unit, it means he's a normal Garda and gets called to these situations when needed. Lack of constant use usually results in this happening.

Also, having being on the frontline, the people with the cameras can be just as dangerous. Everyone is a camerman these days, especially with the cost of professional smaller cameras (like what that cameraman was using - portable). I wouldn't dismiss someone just because they're holding a camera. I wouldn't dismiss anyone in front of me tbh, as everyone is capable of doing things you wouldn't expect. Another difference, imo, between the mentality of a civvie and that of a Garda/police.

Larbre34 wrote: »

In the footage he steps out of the line and strikes a few people in the protesting group as they try to push them back up the street. I guess being able to discern relative threats in a mob of people is proportional to how scared or adrenalined you are yourself at that moment.

Exactly. Directions being shouted from behind, far more people shouting at you in the front, a lot of which wouldn't think twice about belting you or throwing stuff at you. Then you have the civvie cameramen stuck in the middle of it. Cameras have zoom, stand back, get a good angle and zoom. No need to be in the thick of it imo. Again, not excusing this particular Garda, but it's not black and white on that line.

Still think the cameraman is blowing it out of proportion with his lack of trust, blah blah give me money statements. He shouldn't have been hit, but he's acting like he got battered over and over by multiple Gardai. That's what galls me.

Stovepipe · 15-03-2020 02:23PM

Anybody remember "robocop" of a few years ago, twatting the college kids like a mad drummer? All the Southsiders whinging,exactly like the camera jockey.

RTE cameraman attacked by Gardai

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