How dificult is it not to fall into an open grave?

Potential-Monke · 08-03-2020 11:52AM

They need to introduce a 'common sense' clause. If the powers that be deem that common sense and being aware of your surroundings could have prevented it, no pay out/case.

the purple tin · 08-03-2020 12:00PM

Alun wrote: »

What about the reference to 10 days in hospital for some minor soft tissue injuries?????

Especially with the hospitals so backed up. I'd have thought you would only get an overnight stay on a trolley at most with soft tissue injuries(bruising isn't it?).
There's something a bit off about this story, why won't they say how much she was awarded?

storker · 08-03-2020 12:05PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

But the fact remains that she fell into a hole that had no edge protection. It sounds stupid I know but if any of you fell into such a hole in work, even if you were well aware of it, you would probably win your case if you took it.
.

That's true, but let's look at how many funerals happen in Ireland per year. Deaths in Ireland per year come to +/- 30,000. Cremation may account for 1/5, so let's say 24,000 and lets take another 1/5, for deaths that involve multiple simultaneous interments and remains that are repatriated abroad. That leaves us with a very conservative 18,000 burials a year in Ireland that involve open graves with no edge protection, and yet people, somehow, miraculously, manage to avoid falling in. Or at least, so few that it's a microscopic percentage. I'd say that's reason enough to throw such cases out and say that it's reasonable for undertakers not to bother with edge protection.

bottlebrush · 08-03-2020 12:16PM

I doubt it will stop her going to more funerals - imagine burying a loved one and seeing her hanging about the grave

Rubberlegs · 08-03-2020 12:19PM

It had been raining heavily before my Dad was buried and the OH lost his footing at the graveside. He lurched backwards and only for a few of us grabbed him he would have gone in on top of Dad. The look of panic on his face was priceless. A hilarious moment on an otherwise sh1tty day. After reading that story I'm thinking we should have let him fall

Potential-Monke · 08-03-2020 12:28PM

the purple tin wrote: »

There's something a bit off about this story, why won't they say how much she was awarded?

Was settled outside of court so doesn't have to be disclosed. Usually it's quite a payout. Silence is expensive, even if it shouldn't be paid for.

bottlebrush wrote: »

I doubt it will stop her going to more funerals - imagine burying a loved one and seeing her hanging about the grave

If she was a local and one of my family died, she would be barred from the graveyard.

BattleCorp · 08-03-2020 12:35PM

the purple tin wrote: »

Especially with the hospitals so backed up. I'd have thought you would only get an overnight stay on a trolley at most with soft tissue injuries(bruising isn't it?).
There's something a bit off about this story, why won't they say how much she was awarded?

Soft tissue injury isn't bruising. The effects of some soft tissue injuries can last a lifetime - e.g. some people never fully recover from a soft tissue injury such as whiplash.

The only settlements that are made public are settlements involving children as they have to be approved by a judge in court.

If an adult settles with an insurance company out of court, the judge doesn't even know how much it has been settled for.

BattleCorp · 08-03-2020 12:36PM

Rubberlegs wrote: »

It had been raining heavily before my Dad was buried and the OH lost his footing at the graveside. He lurched backwards and only for a few of us grabbed him he would have gone in on top of Dad. The look of panic on his face was priceless. A hilarious moment on an otherwise sh1tty day. After reading that story I'm thinking we should have let him fall

I've never seen a person fall into a grave but I was at a funeral once where the priest's dog fell into the grave. Someone had to get down into the grave to take the dog out.

tipptom · 08-03-2020 12:41PM

the purple tin wrote: »

It happened to Leeland Palmer during his daughter Laura's funeral, although he didn't fall in he jumped.

His hair went grey overnight as well.

branie2 · 08-03-2020 12:42PM

Just a matter of watching you are standing.

Be right back · 08-03-2020 12:46PM

Just wondering how she managed not to see the great big hole and if she has a history of making claims?

tipptom · 08-03-2020 12:55PM

Sued for 65,settled for 25?

BattleCorp · 08-03-2020 01:00PM

tipptom wrote: »

Sued for 65,settled for 25?

I don't know how much she got but I'd bet my house it was a hell of a lot more than €25k. She spent 10 days in hospital so that's a significant injury.

jmreire · 08-03-2020 01:09PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Was settled outside of court so doesn't have to be disclosed. Usually it's quite a payout. Silence is expensive, even if it shouldn't be paid for.

If she was a local and one of my family died, she would be barred from the graveyard.

If she could not mind herself at a graveyard, I would not let her in the front door.

CrankyHaus · 08-03-2020 01:29PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

But the fact remains that she fell into a hole that had no edge protection. It sounds stupid I know but if any of you fell into such a hole in work, even if you were well aware of it, you would probably win your case if you took it.

A workplace and a funeral are very different. In a place of work repetitive tasks performed over a long period of time leads to a lack of attention which makes even a small risk of accident an eventual certainly, and the duty of care imposed by law reflects this.

At a funeral the gathering around an open hole for a few minutes is part of the event, which people elect to attend and manage the risks inherent in it by taking care for their own safety. Placing fluorescent barriers with flashing beacons around the grave would detract from the solemnity of the event for most mourners. The fact is we accept the slightly heightened risk of gathering around an open hole because of the emotional value we derive from it. Making this prohibitive for fear of litigation is absurd.

rainbowtrout · 08-03-2020 01:29PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I absolutely agree with all of you. She should have been more careful and been looking at where she was going.

But the fact remains that she fell into a hole that had no edge protection. It sounds stupid I know but if any of you fell into such a hole in work, even if you were well aware of it, you would probably win your case if you took it.

Would I take a case in such circumstances, I very much doubt it. I'd be too embarrassed.

Ya but she described it as a trap. A trap is something you are unaware of. If you have been to a funeral before, and I'm going to guess as this one was 77, she's been to quite a few, then she knows how funerals work and that there would be a big hole in the ground. If the coffin was in before she fell in, then she saw it being lowered and was aware that there was a hole in the ground. Hardly a trap. I'm surprised it made it to court at all to be honest, and disappointed that it was settled out of court and that she got anything.

There was a woman last year or the year before who tried to sue because she hurt her ankle hiking the Wicklow Way and lost her case, and the judge basically said that there was an inherent risk with hiking, and that by going on a hike she was accepting the risk of injury. Probably not the exact words, but that was the general gist of it.

If you go to a graveyard for a burial, you are accepting that there is going to be a big hole in the ground and you don't go too close to the edge, if you do there is a risk you might fall in.

She was also claiming because she was hit by her own handbag when she fell in. No one forced her to carry a handbag. And she also claimed that it reduced her ability to work. I don't know many people of that age who are still working. Soft tissue injuries sounds more like bruising than anything else.

lalababa · 08-03-2020 01:29PM

colm_mcm wrote: »

Whilst we probably all agree that the compo culture has gotten out of hand, you’d have to look at the likes of the undertakers like Allied funeral services who have a large chunk of the market, and have considerable assets. These are proper businesses and are organizing multiple funerals per day.
If this was any other business that oversee a big hole in the ground, it would be a given that they mitigate the risk of someone falling in.
I’m not suggesting there be big neon signs, or the requirement for mourners to watch an instructional video - but at least some organization with regards to where people stand etc.

F**k sake...bollo*ks

lalababa · 08-03-2020 01:38PM

storker wrote: »

That's true, but let's look at how many funerals happen in Ireland per year. Deaths in Ireland per year come to +/- 30,000. Cremation may account for 1/5, so let's say 24,000 and lets take another 1/5, for deaths that involve multiple simultaneous interments and remains that are repatriated abroad. That leaves us with a very conservative 18,000 burials a year in Ireland that involve open graves with no edge protection, and yet people, somehow, miraculously, manage to avoid falling in. Or at least, so few that it's a microscopic percentage. I'd say that's reason enough to throw such cases out and say that it's reasonable for undertakers not to bother with edge protection.

Are there only 30k deaths in Ireland per year...my God. There are around 60k doing their leaving cert..so what 75k births a year. Where are the other (75-30) 45k people.. immigrated??

Potential-Monke · 08-03-2020 01:44PM

lalababa wrote: »

Are there only 30k deaths in Ireland per year...my God. There are around 60k doing their leaving cert..so what 75k births a year. Where are the other (75-30) 45k people.. immigrated??

It's more than that. According to this site, there are 6.6 deaths per 1000 people annually, so at 4.83 million, it works out at about 318780 deaths per year (if I math good).

lalababa · 08-03-2020 01:46PM

I wonder like some poster said..to bring in a common sense clause.
Also instead of judges coming to a decision and award, if we had a jury, not quiet 12 maybe 6 . Because things ARE ridiculous ATM and are just getting worse. Especially for business, with insurance, service and product prices going up with every silly judgement.
We are heading quickly towards farce.

storker · 08-03-2020 01:50PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's more than that. According to this site, there are 6.6 deaths per 1000 people annually, so at 4.83 million, it works out at about 318780 deaths per year (if I math good).

Correct. My bad maths. But that reinforces my point x 10.

BattleCorp · 08-03-2020 01:52PM

lalababa wrote: »

I wonder like some poster said..to bring in a common sense clause.
Also instead of judges coming to a decision and award, if we had a jury, not quiet 12 maybe 6 . Because things ARE ridiculous ATM and are just getting worse. Especially for business, with insurance, service and product prices going up with every silly judgement.
We are heading quickly towards farce.

The settlement here had absolutely nothing to do with a judge or jury. It was an out-of-court settlement.

And common sense is not a thing that applies in court. The only thing that applies there is the law.

lalababa · 08-03-2020 02:22PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

The settlement here had absolutely nothing to do with a judge or jury. It was an out-of-court settlement.

And common sense is not a thing that applies in court. The only thing that applies there is the law.

Aahh... that's grand so. Nothing to see here.

Graces7 · 08-03-2020 02:26PM

alchemist33 wrote: »

"It was claimed that Ms Walsh was extremely emotionally upset and embarrassed by the incident."

Not embarrassed enough judging by this claim!

Maybe her way of deflecting! I mean REALLY! I would be mortified ( opps! maybe wrong word!) if I did that.

So if she can take legal action?

blackbox · 08-03-2020 02:46PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

The settlement here had absolutely nothing to do with a judge or jury. It was an out-of-court settlement.

And common sense is not a thing that applies in court. The only thing that applies there is the law.

It wouldn't have been settled out of court if both sides thought there was no chance of getting an award, so it has a lot to do with how the law is applied.

With regard to common sense, the judge can apportion responsibility for the damage. In this case, it could be perceived that the woman was 99% to blame.

fryup · 08-03-2020 02:59PM

another good reason to get cremated....no chance of someone jumping into the furnace after ya

BattleCorp · 08-03-2020 06:18PM

blackbox wrote: »

It wouldn't have been settled out of court if both sides thought there was no chance of getting an award, so it has a lot to do with how the law is applied.

There are three main ways that a defendant will settle out of court and all of them come down to money.

1. They know they will be found liable so they try settle as early as possible to keep costs down as low as possible.

2. Court cases are expensive. They may be 100% confident of winning in court but a protracted court battle could prove more costly than just settling in the first place.

3. Court is always a gamble and you are rarely guaranteed victory in court so many aren't willing to take that chance. Remember, if the defendant loses, they usually have to pay their opponents costs. That can seriously hit you in the pocket.

The most common ways for a plaintiff to settle is either being offered enough money or wanting to avoid a court appearance along with the publicity that it generates. Or if they have something to hide, such as an exaggeration of their injury etc.

With regard to common sense, the judge can apportion responsibility for the damage. In this case, it could be perceived that the woman was 99% to blame.

I wish that was the case. It would make my job so much easier if common sense was applied and contributory negligence was a big thing. But more often than not, the injured party isn't penalised too hard for their contributory negligence.

SnazzyPig · 08-03-2020 06:46PM

She should have sued her cousin for dying and thus causing her to go to a funeral and interment.

Meeoow · 08-03-2020 08:48PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's more than that. According to this site, there are 6.6 deaths per 1000 people annually, so at 4.83 million, it works out at about 318780 deaths per year (if I math good).

I think you need to drop a zero there. If we had over 300,000 deaths a year, there'd be plenty of auld ones falling into graves.

Calypso Realm · 09-03-2020 10:41AM

I have to say though, this was one of the funniest things I've read in a long time!

I'm also thankful I wasn't actually there because I know I'd have had difficulty containing myself on the day! My sense of humour has always gotten the better of me, despite all else!

How dificult is it not to fall into an open grave?

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