Picard 1x07 - "Nepenthe" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

ilovesmybrick · 05-03-2020 9:29am #1

So I may have "acquired" this episode last week due to Amazons snafu with episode 6, so I've been patiently waiting for this thread to be opened!

I thought this was a great episode, though I'm thinking that the last three are going to either have to have a relentless pace to tie up the story, or they'll all have to have the increased runtime that this episode had.

Spear · 05-03-2020 1:48pm

I didn't know that the episode had leaked previously. It would explain how a major spoiler for this episode was already floating about.

Bit of a high casualty rate for any former borg though.

ilovesmybrick · 05-03-2020 2:14pm

Spear wrote: »

I didn't know that the episode had leaked previously. It would explain how a major spoiler for this episode was already floating about.

Bit of a high casualty rate for any former borg though.

Amazon prime in Japan accidentally released episode seven instead of six. It doesn't appear to have been widely distributed, but I was sent a version last Friday...I fully intended on waiting to watch a better copy, but barely lasted a day!

I wonder how many of the borg they killed. Was it just those with Hugh, or are they doing a cull of them all?

Agent Coulson · 05-03-2020 2:43pm

Well a child actor who wasn't annoying and did a great job as Will and Deanna's daughter.

I really enjoyed that episode and a nice way to The Riker's again.

Slydice · 05-03-2020 6:50pm

Enjoyed that episode. Mind Meld, Tyken's Rift nostalgia!

Was caught off guard with Hugh though

Not freakin cool what's happening to all the former Borg! Sure would be something if Elnor could pull off an independence movement or something, maybe move the cube to Vashti, restore some order there and the original intent of the place.

Sad story there about Thad. That moment when Soji said Ardani and they looked at each other!

Deanna was great with the Betazed acting. The way she just looked at Picard.

It was cool how Will had Shields around the house!

More info about what was going on with Aggie! It's wierd.. has me wondering if the head of starfleet security is a Vulcan with the mind meld or a Romulan up to something.. the vision she gave Aggie looks like she might know the future.. so I'm understanding a bit better why Aggie is so conflicted.

Slydice · 05-03-2020 6:53pm

OMG THAT LAST SCENE FROM NEXT WEEKS PREVIEW! :eek:

Seven Hooked into the Queen interface!

:eek:

helimachoptor · 05-03-2020 10:28pm

Best ep by far, but next week looks bloody amazing.

The bond between Picard, riker and troí just comes across as so natural.

expectationlost · 05-03-2020 10:40pm

Troy and Rykers child was super annoying! the wrong child died!

Goodshape · 06-03-2020 12:08am

A little too much exposition and the stuff on the cube was a bit pantomimey, but otherwise a good episode!

The scene around the dinner table with Riker, Troi, and Picard was nice

Very sorry to see Hugh go. That seemed unnecessary.

06-03-2020 12:58am

FFS, Hugh. We all fvcking liked him.

Stark · 06-03-2020 1:14am

The name of the child was a nice throwback to that TNG episode where Deanna discovered she had a deceased sister who her mother suppressed all memory of.

Spear · 06-03-2020 1:37am

Stark wrote: »

The name of the child was a nice throwback to that TNG episode where Deanna discovered she had a deceased sister who her mother suppressed all memory of.

There's an older, weirder throwback in there. Riker refers to having trouble with the Kzinti. That's a reference to a cat like species from The Animated Series.

Evade · 06-03-2020 1:56am

While I liked the Picard/Riker/Troi stuff, it really felt like old friends catching up and not an out of place nickname in sight, it was all kind of pointless. I was waiting for it to be a simulation like Future Imperfect. I wonder how they do those without some kind of AI.

The cube stuff, while very dumb, at least moved things along and it looks like Seven will be back. Picard really shouldn't have stopped off for Elrond, that time wasted seems to have made everything worse.

Random episode thoughts as it was playing

It's been three weeks?
300 whole gigabytes? Bring back teraquads
Commodore Oh's askew rank pip is annoying
So she is a Vulcan, why the sunglasses?
Are they going to throw in a time travel plot in the next two episodes or a Vulcans precognitive now too?
Agnes is going to stay in the Matrix
40,000 ly in days
Where's elf boy?
So Romulan Super Extra Secret Police respect treaties with the Federation on the cube but conduct black ops on Earth, totally makes sense
Jaime Romulan will pull a Boba Fett chasing Han Solo in Empire on not Han Solo
Hugh probably wouldn't be in that mess if Picard went straight to the Cube and picked elf boy up on the way back
Who could have guessed?
More elves?
"I am not a merry man"
Picard has a d20 on his jacket
Probably not 40,000 ly away
Picard and Riker reunion is the best scene in the series
He's about two ship lengths away
So no one has functional sensors any more?
Come Agnes, lets take drugs
The dead son thing seems unnecessary
Data head tilt over pizza
Riker was at least a captain by the time he retired
Now the dead son thing makes sense, it's still a little forced
Troi seems off
Oh, she's trying to read her
No more Hugh
Romulan's do have functional sensors
The dinner conversation seems very fake like Future Imperfect
Do artificial hearts change rhythms when lying? Seems like a design flaw
Maybe activate the EMH so he can un blue pill you
How does killing yourself stop the tracker?

Stark wrote: »

The name of the child was a nice throwback to that TNG episode where Deanna discovered she had a deceased sister who her mother suppressed all memory of.

Her name was Kestra, what's the connection?

Spear · 06-03-2020 2:07am

Evade wrote: »

Random episode thoughts as it was playing

[*]So she is a Vulcan, why the sunglasses?

The writer explained on Twitter that this was her clumsy attempt to look intimidating to a human.

[*]40,000 ly in days

It had a range of up to 40k ly, they never said how far they actually travelled.

[*]Troi seems off
[*]Oh, she's trying to read her

I read that slightly differently. Troi seemed to have a slightly angry or resentful tone there, which makes sense if you consider what a slap in the face Soji's existence is to her. Troi can't get the positronic network needed to save her son, yet Maddox goes and ignores the ban and gets the kids he wanted.

AllForIt · 06-03-2020 3:37am

I like the Commodore Oh character. I like baddies. In fiction, of course. The dark sunglasses worked for me as well.

It's interesting that in the far future we still haven't gone beyond airpods for personal music listening, but transparent screen whip ups are a thing. Whatever happened to google glasses?

What's with Rafi's hairstyle lol. I think the style is 'Pigtails', not being a hairstyle expert.

Did you know synths who don't know they are synths have an 'identity'. And it's really hard to come to terms with your 'identity' being changed, says Picard. I though in a federation future all this identity stuff would be done away with. Something about this show doesn't feel quite like the future, rather the present, our present.

All that nitpicking aside, I though it was by far and away the best episode in the series. A bitta nostalgia no doubt, but the episode in itself was more competent than any in the series so far. More of the same please.

Roar · 06-03-2020 8:12am

Best episode of the series. I just wish it was all Picard/Riker/Troi stuff.

One thing that really annoyed me was having Jonathan Frakes’ name on the intro credits. Bit of a spoiler obviously, would have preferred not knowing.

TheValeyard · 06-03-2020 8:16am

Really good episode. Very well done. Couple of small things annoying me, but overall I liked it. Great to see Riker back on screen!

The Megaphone · 06-03-2020 10:49am

Really enjoyed this episode but Rios needs to get a new EMH - the guy is useless!

And the fact that the sickbay is an open room off the open cargo bay off the open bridge makes me question why nobody else witnessed Maddox die. Must have employed the same chippies who installed all the sound proofing in the Fair City sets!

Evade · 06-03-2020 11:56am

Spear wrote: »

The writer explained on Twitter that this was her clumsy attempt to look intimidating to a human.

That just makes Oh look incompetent. Agnes is a research scientist Oh's already much stronger than most humans and is the head of Starfleet security she doesn't need anything else to be intimidating.

Spear wrote: »

It had a range of up to 40k ly, they never said how far they actually travelled.

I got that after. I'm too lazy to edit out things I was wrong about.

06-03-2020 12:41pm

Aside from the reunion, very much a meh episode for me. Marina Sirtis still looks amazing though.

The Romulan, Narek?, Must be the worst covert tracker in the galaxy. "If I stay three ships behind they won't spot me in all this traffic".

Rikers home looks cool. Even cooler with built in shields.

You can just imagine it:

Riker:"Darn, its raining. Computer, beam the pizza straight to the galley"

TheValeyard · 06-03-2020 2:09pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Aside from the reunion, very much a meh episode for me. Marina Sirtis still looks amazing though.

The Romulan, Narek?, Must be the worst covert tracker in the galaxy. "If I stay three ships behind they won't spot me in all this traffic".

Rikers home looks cool. Even cooler with built in shields.

You can just imagine it:

Riker:"Darn, its raining. Computer, beam the pizza straight to the galley"

You're doing it wrong

Riker: Computer, stop rain.

Roar · 06-03-2020 2:10pm

I got a big kick out of Riker yelling “red alert” when his pizza burned I have to say

TheValeyard · 06-03-2020 2:36pm

Roar wrote: »

I got a big kick out of Riker yelling “red alert” when his pizza burned I have to say

Yeah was a real feel good reunion episode....excluding Hughs untimely demise. But they are on a Borg cube with Borg tech and presuming Seven is on her way. She might bring him back the way she brought back Neelix.

liamtech · 06-03-2020 3:31pm

Really liked this episode but far more fascinated/excited/worried about next week!

Does anyone have any opinions on these possibilities

does it seem that Seven is being turned into a BORG QUEEN of sorts (very end of trailer)
Does it look like there is a Borg Sphere in the back of this Cube? (right after romulan agent stats 'something far worse is coming")
Does that look like a Transwarp Conduit opening (while someone is saying 'must react quickly)

06-03-2020 4:01pm

Come here, are we discussing next week' episode here?

Trailer or no that is massive spoiler territory above

velo.2010 · 06-03-2020 4:22pm

Spear wrote: »

I read that slightly differently. Troi seemed to have a slightly angry or resentful tone there, which makes sense if you consider what a slap in the face Soji's existence is to her. Troi can't get the positronic network needed to save her son, yet Maddox goes and ignores the ban and gets the kids he wanted.

I have to watch the episode again but yeah, I got the felling Troi was actually about to slap the face of Soji for a moment. I don't know if Sirtis conveyed exactly what Troi was supposed to be feeling at that moment. The performances from both Sirtis and Frakes were slightly stilted but that's to be forgiven as both have not been active as actors recently.

Two questions:
1. Was that mind meld some sort of Discovery related time travel arc (I haven't watched DSC but know they jump to the future in season 2) or the Vulcan Tal Shiar agent simply seeking to freak out Jurati and bend her to her will?

2. Seven's calling card... I thought she gave that to Picard? Did he give it to Elnor? Whatever the case, it was very handy to suddenly find it hanging there on board a huge Borg cube!

I thought Riker was talking about trouble with the Xindi. That had me thinking there was definitely going to be some sort of time travel plot later on. Phew, he was just mentioning a catlike species that appeared in the animated series!:D

Good episode. Nice to see Riker and Troi (the Troi-Rikers?). Like I said, I will have to watch again to pick up on some more details.

Evade · 06-03-2020 4:30pm

velo.2010 wrote: »

Two questions:
1. Was that mind meld some sort of Discovery related time travel arc (I haven't watched DSC but know they jump to the future in season 2) or the Vulcan Tal Shiar agent simply seeking to freak out Jurati and bend her to her will?

Knowing what will happen in the future implies time travel but nothing to do with STD as far as I know. As for why a mind meld? Probably to show the watchers she's actually a Vulcan not a secret Romulan. But mind melds are usually to gather first hand accounts so is Oh a time traveler or did she meld with a time traveler?

liamtech · 06-03-2020 5:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Come here, are we discussing next week' episode here?

Trailer or no that is massive spoiler territory above

OK well genuine apologies - however in my defense, this thread is labeled [**SPOILERS WITHIN**], and also makes no reference to not discussing the trailer for next weeks episode

Could Mod perhaps make a call on this? Or if one has already been made could my post be deleted or re-posted in a separate discussion about the trailer for next week

BTW i am genuinely apologizing folks - i would NOT have posted this if i thought anyone had not watched the trailer - OR - if it was against policy

That said, i am eager to have a discussion on the trailer if anyone is interested in doing so

EDIT: I have attempted to spoiler tag my post but am unable to do this - could mod assist with this? Thanks and again my apologies

Slydice · 06-03-2020 7:20pm

liamtech wrote: »

EDIT: I have attempted to spoiler tag my post but am unable to do this - could mod assist with this? Thanks and again my apologies

if you still have the edit button, the advanced button brings up the regular posting screen and it has the spoiler button (in case that's what you're missing)

Sad Professor · 06-03-2020 7:49pm

I have added spoiler tags to liamtech's post.

To be clear, the spoiler warning in the thread title applies to the current episode only. Discussion of previews/trailers for future episodes should be hidden behind spoiler tags.

ilovesmybrick · 06-03-2020 8:21pm

liamtech wrote: »

OK well genuine apologies - however in my defense, this thread is labeled [**SPOILERS WITHIN**], and also makes no reference to not discussing the trailer for next weeks episode

Could Mod perhaps make a call on this? Or if one has already been made could my post be deleted or re-posted in a separate discussion about the trailer for next week

BTW i am genuinely apologizing folks - i would NOT have posted this if i thought anyone had not watched the trailer - OR - if it was against policy

That said, i am eager to have a discussion on the trailer if anyone is interested in doing so

EDIT: I have attempted to spoiler tag my post but am unable to do this - could mod assist with this? Thanks and again my apologies

I think it'd be worthwhile to have a trailer-spoiler-thread. There's a lot to unpack! I'll create one now

_Kaiser_ · 06-03-2020 8:53pm

An episode of two halves..

All the stuff with Will and Deanna was great and natural, but as you'd expect from characters/actors who've been together for decades. The daughter wasn't too annoying either.

All the rest - shyte basically, especially the stuff on the ship.

All the cameos are doing (aside from showing us what could have been), is highlighting just how bad the new cast are.

<insert clip of young SG1 from Stargate's 200 here>

pixelburp · 06-03-2020 9:09pm

Best episode of the season, it all worked well, and even if the Riker/Troi reunion will dominate the discussion the other threads worked well enough. Can't really fight the decades of chemistry and goodwill for the old cast, but at least they had an episode centred around them, rather than relegated to walk-on cameos.

06-03-2020 9:38pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Best episode of the season, it all worked well, and even if the Riker/Troi reunion will dominate the discussion the other threads worked well enough. Can't really fight the decades of chemistry and goodwill for the old cast, but at least they had an episode centred around them, rather than relegated to walk-on cameos.

If this was the best episode of the season than STP has been poor, and it has.

AMKC · 06-03-2020 11:01pm

I enjoyed that. Great to see Picard, Riker and Troi all back together again and glad it was a whole episode not just a few small scenes.

I did not find the kid annoying at all.

Loved Rikers house equipped with sensors and shields and all the other tech too. I actually thought he was messing at first when he said shields up lol.

Sad to see Hugh killed off and the scientist in a coma. Raffi is the one I think no one would miss if they wanted to kill a character off.

Nerak really was not very clever was he. They were bound to figure out there must have been a tracker either on the ship or in one of them if he kept finding them and getting just to close like he did.

Why was the medical hologram so slow to act?

I think she was going to tell Raffi what she had done that she killed Maddox before your man interrupted them.

fritzelly · 07-03-2020 12:07am

Great episode - Marina looks great for her age
Felt like a TNG reunion episode with a nice warm fuzzy feeling

But the how is he tracking us when he is literally 6 feet behind was terrible

McDermotX · 07-03-2020 12:15am

Some decent interaction with Riker and Picard, less so, though still there in patches with Troi, and probably the closest to 'Picard' that we've seen with this Picard.

Herself with the daughter and all the rest of it was absolute abysmal bobbins. Par for the course with what we've seen up to now.

Get it over with.

fritzelly · 07-03-2020 12:41am

Dunno if anyone is watching The Ready Room but Frakes made a good point...

Wesley: ...giving fans what they want without being fan service?
Frakes: Did the fans know what they wanted

Fans: We want more Star Trek
...
New Star Trek show
...
Fans: This isn't Star Trek

Kirby · 07-03-2020 1:46am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

An episode of two halves..

All the stuff with Will and Deanna was great and natural, but as you'd expect from characters/actors who've been together for decades. The daughter wasn't too annoying either.

All the rest - shyte basically, especially the stuff on the ship.

All the cameos are doing (aside from showing us what could have been), is highlighting just how bad the new cast are.

<insert clip of young SG1 from Stargate's 200 here>

Granted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_C_PefoE4o

"Dude that hot chick was so totally a goa'uld!" :P

Full_Circle_81 · 07-03-2020 10:33am

Kirby wrote: »

Granted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_C_PefoE4o

"Dude that hot chick was so totally a goa'uld!" :P

What the hell was that clip and how do I see more of it?!

GSPfan · 07-03-2020 11:13am

I found that episode to be very emotional, in a good way. I think the decision to introduce a dead son of the Rikers is a ballsy move that worked. I hope it’s not some future storyline with time travel bringing him back with the help from Soji’s DNA or something like that.

Wonder does Kestra have 1/4 betazoid powers?

Sad to see another former Borg go.

Hope it picks up the pace until the end now.

Sad Professor · 07-03-2020 11:31am

GSPfan wrote: »

I found that episode to be very emotional, in a good way. I think the decision to introduce a dead son of the Rikers is a ballsy move that worked. I hope it’s not some future storyline with time travel bringing him back with the help from Soji’s DNA or something like that.

Riker's dead son was a plot device to explain why they were on some random planet and why they wouldn't leave to help Picard.

I think this show was largely designed around the studio's desire for a multi-season long-running show combined with the fear that Stewart could die mid-production. Thus it couldn't be a TNG reboot and Picard couldn't be too central to the story. There had to be a new crew, new ship that could be the main focus of future seasons if Stewart died. It's a shame, I would have a preferred a one-off limited series that was really about Picard and Ent-D crew.

Relikk · 07-03-2020 11:40am

Full_Circle_81 wrote: »

What the hell was that clip and how do I see more of it?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/200_(Stargate_SG-1)

07-03-2020 11:40am

We've seen cloning technology exists in this timeline. In fact, even Riker has a clone who's name I can't remember.

Presumably there's no point in cloning the dead son because he would have the same genetic condition and still no positronic matrix to help cure it. Except, now Soji has arrived on the scene. Hmmm...

Evade · 07-03-2020 11:49am

It was a virus not a congenital condition but cloning seems to be frowned on in the Federation.

Stark · 07-03-2020 11:52am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We've seen cloning technology exists in this timeline. In fact, even Riker has a clone who's name I can't remember.

"Thomas Riker". He wasn't a clone, he was the result of a transporter accident where the pattern was duplicated.

I think actual cloning is banned due to the ban on genetic engineering.

07-03-2020 12:16pm

Ok. Nevermind then.

07-03-2020 12:24pm

Funnily enough, I only watched that DS9 episode

where Thomas Riker steals the Defiant

again during the week.

GSPfan · 07-03-2020 3:05pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Riker's dead son was a plot device to explain why they were on some random planet and why they wouldn't leave to help Picard.

I think this show was largely designed around the studio's desire for a multi-season long-running show combined with the fear that Stewart could die mid-production. Thus it couldn't be a TNG reboot and Picard couldn't be too central to the story. There had to be a new crew, new ship that could be the main focus of future seasons if Stewart died. It's a shame, I would have a preferred a one-off limited series that was really about Picard and Ent-D crew.

They don’t need to justify not abandoning their daughter to get involved with the Romulans by inventing a dead son. Pretty sure they could have given a valid reason that wasn’t so grim. I commend them for doing it, it was a surprising cruel twist. Gave depth to Kestra if anything as I think we felt more empathy toward her as a result. It definitely wasn’t a plot device to explain why they were there and won’t leave.

As for your thoughts on this not being a non-centric Picard show........ You realise it’s literally the most Picard centric show they could have made, his name is in the titles. It’s his show. If Patrick Stewart died it would be over. I wouldn’t think anyone is thinking he will die by the way, unless the bloody coronavirus gets him.

Sad Professor · 07-03-2020 3:30pm

GSPfan wrote: »

They don’t need to justify not abandoning their daughter to get involved with the Romulans by inventing a dead son. Pretty sure they could have given a valid reason that wasn’t so grim. I commend them for doing it, it was a surprising cruel twist. Gave depth to Kestra if anything as I think we felt more empathy toward her as a result. It definitely wasn’t a plot device to explain why they were there and won’t leave.

It's a good plot device, but still a plot device. They could have given many bad or nonsensical reasons for keeping them on the planet, but a personal/family one works best. Picard is one of their oldest friends and their former captain. Their loyalty to him is immense. They either had to shatter that loyalty (as happens in All Good Things) or they needed to give Will/Troi a personal reason for not getting involved. The latter allowed them to write the friendly reunion episode that they did whilst still absolving Riker/Troi from any obligation to help Picard apart from giving him a place to stay for a few days.

As for your thoughts on this not being a non-centric Picard show........ You realise it’s literally the most Picard centric show they could have made, his name is in the titles. It’s his show. If Patrick Stewart died it would be over. I wouldn’t think anyone is thinking he will die by the way, unless the bloody coronavirus gets him.

I don't think the show is that Picard centric at all. He's surrounded by new characters and most episodes have a b story that has nothing to do with him. Stewart dies and Rios renames the ship the Picard and the show continues.

07-03-2020 4:02pm

When Mark McManus, the title character in Taggart died, the show continued.

ST Picard could become about his legacy.

Picard 1x07 - "Nepenthe" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Picard 1x07 - "Nepenthe" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]