Idea for a grant to modify driveways to accommodate cars

Ush1 · 05-03-2020 8:56pm #1

Not sure where to post this but it's an idea I had.

One thing that doesn't sit right with me is private property aka cars being stored on public roads. I notice in my estate that cars are parked all along the sides of the roads making it annoying to navigate. Many of the houses have driveways big enough for the extra cars but you would need to adjust the walls.

My idea is the government give a grant to modify your driveway to accommodate your car or cars. Do you think this is something government would entertain and that people would avail of?

Zebra3 · 05-03-2020 9:20pm

Put down double yellow lines and enforce it.

hurikane · 05-03-2020 9:22pm

So you don’t want private cars on public property and want to pay people with public money to park them on their private property?

MJohnston · 05-03-2020 9:23pm

There should in no way be a grant for this imo. Governments should be spending on money on public transport that reduces people's need to store a car anywhere.

This modification requires planning permission anyway, which should tell you that the government/local authorities don't want it to happen.

Pete_Cavan · 06-03-2020 12:17am

There are many streets around Dublin of early 20th century houses with a small front garden, these are generally totally unused and often not maintained. The residents park on the sside of the public road which is not wide enough to accommodate driving and parked cars resulting in insufficient space for cars to pass, parking on footpaths, or both. God help a cyclist trying to get down the road or someone pushing a buggy on the footpath. This is not just residential side streets, it is on artery roads as well.

I have often thought that it would be a good idea to incentivise residents to convert their front garden into a parking space, even if that is covering part of the cost or doing the work for them. Everyone gets a space for one car and that's it. In return the public get their road and footpath back.

magicbastarder · 06-03-2020 12:32am

'government incentivises private car ownership' is not a policy position which makes any sense.
i used to live in a house without a driveway (in phibsboro). one of the reasons i bought the house was because it would remove a lot of the need for me to own a car.

MJohnston · 06-03-2020 1:14am

Let me see, we want to tear up lawns and flora and replace them with driveways for cars....sure, of course, this is great.

Caranica · 06-03-2020 1:23am

If you remove on street parking where are visitors, tradespeople, officials going to park? It's all very well to say in the driveway but each would have limited capacity, much less than might be available on the street at any given time.

Vic_08 · 06-03-2020 2:12am

Unless an entire street was done at the same time with the road being double yellowed as well it will do no good, some will have driveways but the street will just fill up with other parked cars.

work · 06-03-2020 2:23am

Ush1 wrote: »

Not sure where to post this but it's an idea I had.

One thing that doesn't sit right with me is private property aka cars being stored on public roads. I notice in my estate that cars are parked all along the sides of the roads making it annoying to navigate. Many of the houses have driveways big enough for the extra cars but you would need to adjust the walls.

My idea is the government give a grant to modify your driveway to accommodate your car or cars. Do you think this is something government would entertain and that people would avail of?

No just ban parking on the road and you must park privately. Simple I belive has already been done

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 8:38am

Zebra3 wrote: »

Put down double yellow lines and enforce it.

I agree but carrot as well as stick. This gives people help to move the cars off the road if they have the space to.

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:07am

hurikane wrote: »

So you don’t want private cars on public property and want to pay people with public money to park them on their private property?

Yes, there's no inherent contradiction there. It doesn't even have to be public money, you could make the works VAT exempt same as the HRI.

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:10am

MJohnston wrote: »

There should in no way be a grant for this imo. Governments should be spending on money on public transport that reduces people's need to store a car anywhere.

This modification requires planning permission anyway, which should tell you that the government/local authorities don't want it to happen.

I don't think lack of money has been an issue of late for public transport projects and I can't see an incentive of this type costing much. It would be a drop in the ocean in terms of budgets.

It wouldn't always require planning I don't think. Does any modification of a driveway require planning? Changing grass to tarmac?

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:11am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

There are many streets around Dublin of early 20th century houses with a small front garden, these are generally totally unused and often not maintained. The residents park on the sside of the public road which is not wide enough to accommodate driving and parked cars resulting in insufficient space for cars to pass, parking on footpaths, or both. God help a cyclist trying to get down the road or someone pushing a buggy on the footpath. This is not just residential side streets, it is on artery roads as well.

I have often thought that it would be a good idea to incentivise residents to convert their front garden into a parking space, even if that is covering part of the cost or doing the work for them. Everyone gets a space for one car and that's it. In return the public get their road and footpath back.

Exactly my point. It would also lower their car insurance premium and access for ambulances and emergency services should improve.

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:13am

magicbastarder wrote: »

'government incentivises private car ownership' is not a policy position which makes any sense.
i used to live in a house without a driveway (in phibsboro). one of the reasons i bought the house was because it would remove a lot of the need for me to own a car.

You think it would induce demand like that? I don't think it would but if that was the case you could add clauses. Maybe the car or cars have to be registered to you before a certain date to avail?

Weepsie · 06-03-2020 9:13am

If they can afford multiple cars, too many to fit all in driveway, they can afford to get the work done themselves. car ownership is too high as is and should be moves to encourage less of it

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:16am

Caranica wrote: »

If you remove on street parking where are visitors, tradespeople, officials going to park? It's all very well to say in the driveway but each would have limited capacity, much less than might be available on the street at any given time.

Most housing estate streets are not clogged up by visitors or temporary access, it is by people who live there parking their car on the road.

To be honest I never mentioned double yellow lines but if the incentive is widely took up in an area you could look to introduce that.

antix80 · 06-03-2020 9:19am

I park in front of my driveway. Half on the footpath and half on the road.

Op, there is a serious cost involved in what you're suggesting. Youre talking thousands, it's not just a case of knocking a wall and pouring some concrete along the footpath to make a ramp.

Plus it solves absolutely nothing. Some households have 2 cars and some have none. So if the households without cars don't take up the offer to ruin their garden, it still leaves cars of residents and their visitors on the road.

If street parking was restricted you'd probably find people without cars renting out their driveways.. And you'd be giving them a grant to do it.

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:19am

Vic_08 wrote: »

Unless an entire street was done at the same time with the road being double yellowed as well it will do no good, some will have driveways but the street will just fill up with other parked cars.

Perhaps, but at least you've cleared a number of vehicles from the road. I don't even know if their would be much uptake in such an incentive but it could at least be an option.

Any reduction of cars on roads is a good thing. Obviously less car ownership should be a long term goal but this would be a short term help.

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:20am

Weepsie wrote: »

If they can afford multiple cars, too many to fit all in driveway, they can afford to get the work done themselves. car ownership is too high as is and should be moves to encourage less of it

Many people can't afford to get that work done and you can get a car for 500 euro, it's hardly any symbol of status or wealth. Some folks need it for work and would prefer increased security of having it on their own property.

magicbastarder · 06-03-2020 9:20am

you need PP to change the access at the front of the house. the public kerb will also need to be dished, probably.

magicbastarder · 06-03-2020 9:22am

antix80 wrote: »

I park in front of my driveway. Half on the footpath and half on the road.

you know it's (technically) illegal to park on a footpath? not that you'd notice with the absolute zero level of policing this in ireland.

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:23am

antix80 wrote: »

I park in front of my driveway. Half on the footpath and half on the road.

Op, there is a serious cost involved in what you're suggesting. Youre talking thousands, it's not just a case of knocking a wall and pouring some concrete along the footpath to make a ramp.

Plus it solves absolutely nothing. Some households have 2 cars and some have none. So if the households without cars don't take up the offer to ruin their garden, it still leaves cars of residents and their visitors on the road.

If street parking was restricted you'd probably find people without cars renting out their driveways.. And you'd be giving them a grant to do it.

I don't understand what you mean. If people have the room to park their car on their property but don't have money to get the work done, they could avail of it. That is how it would reduce the number of cars on the road.

If someone doesn't have a car and has a driveway, obviously there is no issue as they don't have a car.

Plus you can easily show you need to be registered owner of at least one car to avail of the grant.

blackbox · 06-03-2020 9:24am

Some people park on the road to keep their driveway free for the kids to play on.

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:25am

magicbastarder wrote: »

you need PP to change the access at the front of the house. the public kerb will also need to be dished, probably.

It's case by case. In my own estate in many cases it's simply changing grass for tarmac/paving and sometimes perhaps removing part of there front wall.

Ush1 · 06-03-2020 9:27am

blackbox wrote: »

Some people park on the road to keep their driveway free for the kids to play on.

I personally find that a bad reason. Perhaps if the roads outside their driveway were clearer the kids could play there?

magicbastarder · 06-03-2020 9:31am

Ush1 wrote: »

It's case by case. In my own estate in many cases it's simply changing grass for tarmac/paving and sometimes perhaps removing part of there front wall.

removing any part of the wall specifically needs PP.

Can I provide car parking in my garden without permission?

Yes. To the front or side for not more than 2 cars.
(Page 157, Class 6, Part B(ii))
NB. The widening of vehicular entrances is not exempt. (3.5 meters max with permission)

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/planning/planning-applications/do-i-need-planning-application

Peregrinus · 06-03-2020 9:44am

Essentially, up to now, the taxpayer has provided free storage space to car owners, by allowing them to store their cars on the public highway when not actually using them.

This is arguably a bad policy for at least two reasons. One, it represents a transfer of wealth from taxpayers generally to car owners specifically. Why would we think this was a good idea? Secondly, it diminishes the utility of the highway for other users, particularly footpath users (when cars are parked on or partly on the footpath), cyclists (who tend to cycle at the margins of the road, where cars park) and people who live in built-up areas (where traffic flows are signficantly restricted because so much road surface is taken out of action to provide storage for stationary private vehicles).

We can effectively withdraw taxpayer support by banning parking on the street. It's then up to car owners to find somewhere to store their cars.

One possiblity is "in the front garden", if space permits. There's no obvious reason to pay people to adapt their front gardens; the whole point of this is that the taxpayer should stop subsidising storage for vehicles while they are not being used. There's also the objection that the people most adversely affected by the on-street parking ban are those who don't have front gardens - they are going to have to pay possibly quite a lot to store their cars at what might be an inconvenient distance from their homes. If there's a case to be made for public money being spent to alleviate the plight of those disadvantaged by the change in policy regarding on-street parking, surely that money should be directed first of all towards this group?

JustAThought · 06-03-2020 9:51am

some houses or streets, their aspect, walls and iorn fencing /streetscaping are considered of historic or architectural interest snd are protected.particularly georgian, edwardian etc which you find quite a lot of in the city centre - hemce the need for planning permission. An Taisce also keep a wry eye on these as do local preservation and special architectural interest groups.

MJohnston · 06-03-2020 9:54am

Ush1 wrote: »

I don't think lack of money has been an issue of late for public transport projects and I can't see an incentive of this type costing much. It would be a drop in the ocean in terms of budgets.

It wouldn't always require planning I don't think. Does any modification of a driveway require planning? Changing grass to tarmac?

Hold on a second - you're literally talking about creating a budget to pay people to have a driveway put in.

No.

No, no, no, no, no.

And you're complaining that we're spending money on public transport projects??

This is a nutto thread, it's an idea that's completely going against the tides of where we're headed as a society, I'm out!

Peregrinus · 06-03-2020 9:55am

JustAThought wrote: »

some houses or streets, their aspect, walls and iorn fencing /streetscaping are considered of historic or architectural interest snd are protected.particularly georgian, edwardian etc which you find quite a lot of in the city centre - hemce the need for planning permission. An Taisce also keep a wry eye on these as do local preservation and special architectural interest groups.

But it's not just a matter of historical or architectural interest. Any creation of a vehicular entrance on/off the street needs to be looked at - traffic engineers want to know how close it is to any junction, whether it creates a hazard, how it relates to or affects streetlamps, street trees or other street furniture, what the sight-lines are like, etc, etc.

Idea for a grant to modify driveways to accommodate cars

Comments