Now ye're talking - to a landlord

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 2:01pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They provide a service to the public in the absence of successive governments pulling their fingers out and doing so. The public avails of what is currently a highly expensive service because there's no other option. From the figures you posted, it seems as though you're more or less making ends meet, so it's not that difficult. Not right now, at least.

But what happens to you and your rental properties in the (admittedly unlikely) event of the market swinging the other way and average rents dropping to a fairer and more manageable level for tenants? And aside from your own hypothetical predicament, would that be a good or bad thing for society as a whole?

Hi there
In 2008 I was in this predicament you mentioned
Interest rates were higher and rents were a lot less
I just had to suck it up and add my own money to the rent to cover it ... and use my own money to pay the tax bill

rents do need to go down I’ll be the first to say it ..

hap are paying far too much and it seems to me half the country are on it ....

I let a house in October and I had 200 applications from people on HAP and 5 without ....

There is also I feel a growing number of people ego think they are entitled to a house without ever doing a days work in their lives ......

John Hutton · 04-03-2020 2:01pm

When the revolution comes would you prefer the guillotine or the axe?

Geuze · 04-03-2020 2:48pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

At the moment I roughly take in monthly

4700 rent

Mortgage is 3450
House insurance 100
Annual tax bill is about 12k (say 1000 a month )
Solicitors fees 1500 a year
Prtb
Lpt
Maintaince and repairs

So basically I make zero in capital per month ( I did have to add money to the rent to cover the mortgage for a long time )

I hope nobody on the thread is making the typical, classic mistake of confusing profitability with cashflow.

When calculating net rental profits, we deduct mortgage interest from the gross rent.

When calculating cashflow, as what seems to be above, we deduct mortgage interest and mortgage capital repayment.

Remember, the capital repayment is a form of saving.

It appears from above that massive profits are being earned, as the 3450 seems to include both interest and capital repayments.

Graham · 04-03-2020 2:57pm

Many profitable business fail because of cashflow issues.

Sustaining a negative cashflow for 15 years is no mean feat.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 3:16pm

Geuze wrote: »

I hope nobody on the thread is making the typical, classic mistake of confusing profitability with cashflow.

When calculating net rental profits, we deduct mortgage interest from the gross rent.

When calculating cashflow, as what seems to be above, we deduct mortgage interest and mortgage capital repayment.

Remember, the capital repayment is a form of saving.

It appears from above that massive profits are being earned, as the 3450 seems to include both interest and capital repayments.

If you can let me know where the massive profits are then let me know...
Profits on Paper or virtual money tied up in equity are of no value .. they wont buy a new washing machine or pay a plumber.
i had 400k in equity in 2007 .. this went to -400k in 2012...

The houses are still only worth 66% of what i paid for them in 2004-2006 and they were in negative equity for 10 years

I was also using my own money to top up the rents,pay all the taxes,house insurance etc for about 10 years,
and i had to make sure i had enough cashflow at all times for repairs /taxes etc

djan · 04-03-2020 3:42pm

Fair play to you OP. The negative and uninformed comments are a good reflection of the opinions shoved down the throats of the general public.

It's quite difficult to manage rental properties. There is a huge risk associated with it, especially given the law here being very pro tennant. Yes there are monetary gains to be made but not as easily as people make it out to be. A return on investment is not guaranteed as even as of now after pumping 10's of thousands of euros, still only about breaking even.

To help aid the crisis I would argue for lowering of taxes, enforcing rental agreements (both in level of service provided and non payment evictions) and reducing the requirements on news builds while easing foreign building contractors to operate?

My questions is, as a landlord do you think the above would work?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 3:48pm

djan wrote: »

Fair play to you OP. The negative and uninformed comments are a good reflection of the opinions shoved down the throats of the general public.

It's quite difficult to manage rental properties. There is a huge risk associated with it, especially given the law here being very pro tennant. Yes there are monetary gains to be made but not as easily as people make it out to be. A return on investment is not guaranteed as even as of now after pumping 10's of thousands of euros, still only about breaking even.

To help aid the crisis I would argue for lowering of taxes, enforcing rental agreements (both in level of service provided and non payment evictions) and reducing the requirements on news builds while easing foreign building contractors to operate?

My questions is, as a landlord do you think the above would work?

Hi there,

Yes i agree with some of your points

Additionally I would also like to see the PRTB holding deposits or another third party

i would not like to reduce requirements on new builds …(specs?)
and re the foreign contractors i have had friends work on site where 2 lads were doing the same jobs .. one was being paid 5 an hour from a Turkish company and the other 25 from an Irish company .. .i don't agree with this

argolis · 04-03-2020 5:33pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

If you can let me know where the massive profits are then let me know...
Profits on Paper or virtual money tied up in equity are of no value .. they wont buy a new washing machine or pay a plumber.
i had 400k in equity in 2007 .. this went to -400k in 2012...

I'm in a similar situation with a single apartment which I co-own. Bought in 2005. Still in negative equity, the rent is finally covering enough mortgage + tax so that it's now cashflow neutral when we used to have to subsidise it.

But I also recognise that there's a mortgage being paid down on it and one day that will be gone and almost all the rent is then income. It's an enforced savings plan.

I don't agree with your opinion that you're not "earning anything" from it. As others have pointed out, you're paying down a massive mortgage and will in 9 years own three places free and clear. How you can say "you don't know where the profits are" is beyond me.

If I use a mortgage calculator for 807k @ 25 years with 9 years remaining, I guesstimate you bought the places for at least 900k total, you now have 320k outstanding and your repayments in 2020 are now split into €7,100 in interest and €34,400 in capital. That capital payment? That's your profits.

I just did some rough spreadsheet calculations using the expenses figures you quoted. For me, they don't work out as there's a 10k hole in them. For you to have a €12k tax bill at the higher rate of tax means you have €24k of taxable profits and therefore you'd have about €32k of expenses.

Even being generous and saying €20,000 of that was mortgage interest, you've got outgoings each year of €44,000 expenses + tax, meaning you're still netting €12,000

And even if I'm waaaaay off and you're only about cashflow neutral, you're still paying down a mortgage at a rate of at least €24k per annum, if not €34k.

When that mortgage is paid off, those places will be netting you €34,000, after tax.

I totally applaud your gumption in buying those places, especially young, sticking with them, everything you've done and wish you all the best because I know what goes into it. I also appreciate your other answers, they're interesting.

But in 9 years you'll own at least 600k worth of assets producing at least €34,000 cash into your hand. To come on here and say "money tied up in equity is of no value" and "where are the massive profits" is insulting anyone's intelligence, as if the properties are somehow worthless.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 5:42pm

argolis wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation with a single apartment which I co-own. Bought in 2005. Still in negative equity, the rent is finally covering enough mortgage + tax so that it's now cashflow neutral when we used to have to subsidise it.

But I also recognise that there's a mortgage being paid down on it and one day that will be gone and almost all the rent is then income. It's an enforced savings plan.

I don't agree with your opinion that you're not "earning anything" from it. As others have pointed out, you're paying down a massive mortgage and will in 9 years own three places free and clear. How you can say "you don't know where the profits are" is beyond me.

If I use a mortgage calculator for 807k @ 25 years with 9 years remaining, I guesstimate you bought the places for at least 900k total, you now have 320k outstanding and your repayments in 2020 are now split into €7,100 in interest and €34,400 in capital. That capital payment? That's your profits.

I just did some rough spreadsheet calculations using the expenses figures you quoted. For me, they don't work out as there's a 10k hole in them. For you to have a €12k tax bill at the higher rate of tax means you have €24k of taxable profits and therefore you'd have about €32k of expenses.

Even being generous and saying €20,000 of that was mortgage interest, you've got outgoings each year of €44,000 expenses + tax, meaning you're still netting €12,000

And even if I'm waaaaay off and you're only about cashflow neutral, you're still paying down a mortgage at a rate of at least €24k per annum, if not €34k.

When that mortgage is paid off, those places will be netting you €34,000, after tax.

I totally applaud your gumption in buying those places, especially young, sticking with them, everything you've done and wish you all the best because I know what goes into it. I also appreciate your other answers, they're interesting.

But in 9 years you'll own at least 600k worth of assets producing at least €34,000 cash into your hand. To come on here and say "money tied up in equity is of no value" and "where are the massive profits" is insulting anyone's intelligence, as if the properties are somehow worthless.

Humm interesting ….
I did not mean to insult your intelligence ….

in 9 years time I may have 600k of assets producing 35k in rent a year or I may not … in 2007 I had 1.2 million of assets and then in 2012 I had 400K of assets ..All along I still had to fund a lot of it from my own pocket ...
who knows what's going to happen in 9 years time ..my point is that when someone tells you . you have a massive profit and you have a plumber calling or a leak in a roof or a hole in a wall I cant pay them in equity.. I have to use my own cash while paying my own mortgage to run all this and keep it going …

as I said earlier .. if I sold today and added up what I put in I would be at zero .. so where is the massive profits ??
zero after running 3 houses for 16 years ?? what profit ?? what massive profit ??

Diemos · 04-03-2020 5:50pm

argolis wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation with a single apartment which I co-own. Bought in 2005. Still in negative equity, the rent is finally covering enough mortgage + tax so that it's now cashflow neutral when we used to have to subsidise it.

But I also recognise that there's a mortgage being paid down on it and one day that will be gone and almost all the rent is then income. It's an enforced savings plan.

I don't agree with your opinion that you're not "earning anything" from it. As others have pointed out, you're paying down a massive mortgage and will in 9 years own three places free and clear. How you can say "you don't know where the profits are" is beyond me.

If I use a mortgage calculator for 807k @ 25 years with 9 years remaining, I guesstimate you bought the places for at least 900k total, you now have 320k outstanding and your repayments in 2020 are now split into €7,100 in interest and €34,400 in capital. That capital payment? That's your profits.

I just did some rough spreadsheet calculations using the expenses figures you quoted. For me, they don't work out as there's a 10k hole in them. For you to have a €12k tax bill at the higher rate of tax means you have €24k of taxable profits and therefore you'd have about €32k of expenses.

Even being generous and saying €20,000 of that was mortgage interest, you've got outgoings each year of €44,000 expenses + tax, meaning you're still netting €12,000

And even if I'm waaaaay off and you're only about cashflow neutral, you're still paying down a mortgage at a rate of at least €24k per annum, if not €34k.

When that mortgage is paid off, those places will be netting you €34,000, after tax.

I totally applaud your gumption in buying those places, especially young, sticking with them, everything you've done and wish you all the best because I know what goes into it. I also appreciate your other answers, they're interesting.

But in 9 years you'll own at least 600k worth of assets producing at least €34,000 cash into your hand. To come on here and say "money tied up in equity is of no value" and "where are the massive profits" is insulting anyone's intelligence, as if the properties are somehow worthless.

I think you are being a little harsh on the guy.
Your numbers are projections (the most likely outcome give the information at hand).
From his perspective right now, he just sees payments going out and does not differentiate which of the payment is interest vs capital.

You are making a lot of big assumptions that everything will stay the same and the poster will be milking it.
But right now, he is flat even, by the numbers. So I think he has answered honestly, as he sees it.
I hope he gets the figures you are stating.

argolis · 04-03-2020 6:01pm

Yeah look, I think my figures are wrong. The guy/gal has been eating the costs and will be for the next nine years. I just can't get behind the thinking that cashflow is everything, when it doesn't take into account the whole picture that someone is eventually going to be massively rewarded.

I read the comment as quite dismissive that the properties were worth anything really, which really tees me off especially when Boards is full of stories of people who struggle.

So, I apologise if I came across too harshly and do carry on!

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 6:02pm

argolis wrote: »

Yeah look, I think my figures are wrong. The guy/gal has been eating the costs and will be for the next nine years. I just can't get behind the thinking that cashflow is everything, when it doesn't take into account the whole picture that someone is eventually going to be massively rewarded.

I read the comment as quite dismissive that the properties were worth anything really, which really tees me off especially when Boards is full of stories of people who struggle.

So, I apologise if I came across too harshly and do carry on!

thanks !;););)

dubrov · 04-03-2020 6:24pm

argolis wrote: »

Yeah look, I think my figures are wrong. The guy/gal has been eating the costs and will be for the next nine years. I just can't get behind the thinking that cashflow is everything, when it doesn't take into account the whole picture that someone is eventually going to be massively rewarded.

I read the comment as quite dismissive that the properties were worth anything really, which really tees me off especially when Boards is full of stories of people who struggle.

So, I apologise if I came across too harshly and do carry on!

In fairness, it is a huge point and needed to be made. Many will read this thread thinking Profit = Rent minus Mortgage payment.

Cashflow is a big problem for landlords but capital is where most of the profit is stored. Landlords in positive equity struggling with cashflow always have the option to remortgage or restructure the mortgage to release cashflow.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 6:34pm

dubrov wrote: »

In fairness, it is a huge point and needed to be made. Many will read this thread thinking Profit = Rent minus Mortgage payment.

Cashflow is a big problem for landlords but capital is where most of the profit is stored. Landlords in positive equity struggling with cashflow always have the option to remortgage or restructure the mortgage to release cashflow.

I see your point but its not that simple..

I am on a tracker of .75% if I went to the bank with any sort of issue they would do their best to get me off that …..adding 1000s to my repayments..

In the real world when you are dealing with your own bills and subbing the rent etc … Profit IS rent minus mortgage minus Tax bill....

As I said before if I sold everything now I would walk away with zero after 16 years...

DubCount · 04-03-2020 7:07pm

Is there anything that would convince you to buy/rent another property?

Pkiernan · 04-03-2020 7:12pm

The good old landlords haters out in force here.

SuperRabbit · 04-03-2020 7:14pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

That is true yes... I did have to save up the 8% deposit myself an then I think the stamp duty was another 15k and then 2k of solicitors bills . I wanted to get a rental house for my future/pension

Yeah but the thing is we all want to get a mortgage so we have a house for our future/pension/to live in and we can't get a mortgage. I'd really like you to say "I am really privileged, yes." That would make me happy.

As I said before if I sold everything now I would walk away with zero after 16 years...

Would you really walk away with zero? Has it not been part of your income for most of the last 16 years? How is that walking away with zero?

Would you say you are grateful for what you have?

You don't have to feel privileged or be grateful, you don't owe me anything, I'd just like to see that.

Graham · 04-03-2020 7:30pm

15 years of subsidising 3 properties and only just out of negative equity.

Living the dream

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 7:32pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Yeah but the thing is we all want to get a mortgage so we have a house for our future/pension/to live in and we can't get a mortgage. I'd really like you to say "I am really privileged, yes." That would make me happy.

Would you really walk away with zero? Has it not been part of your income for most of the last 16 years? How is that walking away with zero?

Would you say you are grateful for what you have?

You don't have to feel privileged or be grateful, you don't owe me anything, I'd just like to see that.

It has not been any part of my income for 16 Years
I reckon I have put over 160k of my own money to keep them running the past 16 years
If I sold them all tomorrow I would walk away with prob 180k

I worked very hard to buy and keep the houses
I had 3 jobs at one stage .... as I said earlier when all my pals were in Ibiza /buying cars etc I was home saving
I don’t see how being grateful or privileged really applies here to be honest ....

Feisar · 04-03-2020 7:36pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

One fella was selling drugs
Another built a bomb in the garage and blew up an estate agents in Roscommon it was all over the news at the time ... gave them both notice ....the bomb fella made up all threats but nothing ever came of them .. he got 2 years in the end over it the house was raided and all over him

Does the state pay for the repairs after they kick in the door?

Feisar · 04-03-2020 7:37pm

Given the chance would you do it all again?

Feisar · 04-03-2020 7:41pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

If you can let me know where the massive profits are then let me know...
Profits on Paper or virtual money tied up in equity are of no value .. they wont buy a new washing machine or pay a plumber.
i had 400k in equity in 2007 .. this went to -400k in 2012...

The houses are still only worth 66% of what i paid for them in 2004-2006 and they were in negative equity for 10 years

I was also using my own money to top up the rents,pay all the taxes,house insurance etc for about 10 years,
and i had to make sure i had enough cashflow at all times for repairs /taxes etc

Fair play to you overall so please don't see my next question/observation.

Do you think that the above is a reason why housing shouldn't be used as an investment tool by private individuals?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 7:42pm

Feisar wrote: »

Does the state pay for the repairs after they kick in the door?

I never followed it up I just got a new one and sucked it up

strangel00p · 04-03-2020 7:43pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Yeah but the thing is we all want to get a mortgage so we have a house for our future/pension/to live in and we can't get a mortgage. I'd really like you to say "I am really privileged, yes." That would make me happy.

It is nobodys responsibility to make you happy, that's up to you. Why does he have to say to anyone that he is really privileged? As he said himself, when his friends were enjoying themselves in ibiza, he was busy saving. Nobody gave him his property, he worked for it and good luck to him if he is earning a few quid from it.

Pints? · 04-03-2020 7:44pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

Hi
I told the back the first house was for me to live in in 2004 I bought it and rented it out straight away and 9 months later I went back to the bank and went for a second one and a year after that I went and got the third one ....after saving up for all the stamp duty and sols fees
The bank were only too happy for my business ...
Back then I was on about 40k a year and the bank gave me over 807k .... at 23 /25 years old ... looking back it was crazy

To answer your question I tell people that they can do what they want with the house once they give it back to me the same colour as I gave it to them . They can have pets too no problem . I use a letting agent for one house given the grief I have had with 2 tenants in it

How did you save the deposit for the second house in 9 months considering you would have needed roughly a 25% deposit (~80k) as it had to be BTL when you were on 40k? Did you come in to some money also?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 7:44pm

Feisar wrote: »

Given the chance would you do it all again?

Yes but with a few small changes
One of them is a 2 bed .. I should have gotten all 3 beds

My saving grace is that I have a good job so I could fund the shortfalls and I was so young when I started on it all

Would I do it now and start again ? No way

Iscreamkone · 04-03-2020 7:46pm

I laugh at the posters who say that our landlord friend is privileged.
I applaud his entrepreneurial spirit and graft in keeping this enterprise afloat all these years (many didn’t).
Best of luck for the future

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 7:48pm

Pints? wrote: »

How did you save the deposit for the second house in 9 months considering you would have needed roughly a 25% deposit (~80k) as it had to be BTL when you were on 40k? Did you come in to some money also?

The bank didn’t want a 25 % deposit for the second one only about 8% I think
They didn’t want any deposit for the third one . I had Ulster bank and Boi both mad for me to transfer the mortgages to them .. looking back it was madness
To give a 23 year old nearly 1 million in borrowing ??

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 7:49pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I laugh at the posters who say that our landlord friend is privileged.
I applaud his entrepreneurial spirit and graft in keeping this enterprise afloat all these years (many didn’t).
Best of luck for the future

Thanks very much for your kind words

Pints? · 04-03-2020 7:57pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

The bank didn’t want a 25 % deposit for the second one only about 8% I think
They didn’t want any deposit for the third one . I had Ulster bank and Boi both mad for me to transfer the mortgages to them .. looking back it was madness
To give a 23 year old nearly 1 million in borrowing ??

Another 8% was still 23k saved in 9 months on ~40k. Crazy times indeed!

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 8:04pm

Pints? wrote: »

Another 8% was still 23k saved in 9 months on ~40k. Crazy times indeed!

Hi where do you get 23k from ?
I don’t think I mentioned any of the purchase prices of the houses
how long I was saving or how much I had saved up

On the first house I got interest only for 1 year
So the payment was very low end I was getting 1100 a month I had it rented a week after I got the keys
This helped me also ...

All this by the way was over 15 years ago I’m doing my best to remember

Graham · 04-03-2020 8:06pm

In 2010 you had a frightening amount of negative equity, a large set of mortgages and 3 peoples homes hanging over you.

What kept you going when many other landlords threw in the towel?

What was that year like for you, do you remember much of it?

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 8:11pm

Graham wrote: »

In 2010 you had a frightening amount of negative equity, a large set of mortgages and 3 peoples homes hanging over you.

What kept you going when many other landlords threw in the towel?

What was that year like for you, do you remember much of it?

Ha it was a right headache all right
I was putting about 1/4 of my wages per month subbing the rent
Interest rates were a bit higher too..
I was in over 400 k of negitive equity too . In Ireland you can’t just hand the keys back as far as I know if you do the bank will sell them and still persue you for the balance . Bankruptcy laws were different then too
It was hard but I was lucky that the recession didn’t really have too much of an affect on my job and I had a sideline second job that made a few quid too

Basically I just put my head down and worked morning noon and night

SuperRabbit · 04-03-2020 8:12pm

strangel00p wrote: »

It is nobodys responsibility to make you happy, that's up to you. Why does he have to say to anyone that he is really privileged? As he said himself, when his friends were enjoying themselves in ibiza, he was busy saving. Nobody gave him his property, he worked for it and good luck to him if he is earning a few quid from it.

I've never been to Ibiza, this attitude of assuming all the rest of us are responsible for not being able to get mortgages, and have all been partying and having fun ( I'm not in Fianna Fail. ) and not working hard and saving, is pretty ignorant. Believe it or not you can work incredibly hard and have no fun and still not be granted a mortgage.

Good luck to him indeed but this "poor me" thing is a bit grating. It's just increasing the divide instead of bridging it, which is what he came here for?

Landlord dude, genuinely sorry to hear it hasn't earned you anything yet but it's a pretty great pension plan you got there, it will all come up millhouse

Pints? · 04-03-2020 8:18pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

Hi where do you get 23k from ?
I don’t think I mentioned any of the purchase prices of the houses
how long I was saving or how much I had saved up

On the first house I got interest only for 1 year
So the payment was very low end I was getting 1100 a month I had it rented a week after I got the keys
This helped me also ...

All this by the way was over 15 years ago I’m doing my best to remember

The 23k was around the 8-10% of house prices in 2004. I also thought you said you scraped together the deposit for the first property. Apologies

gar32 · 04-03-2020 8:19pm

Roughly in 9 years time. If you got say €35k a year without any mortgages. Tax would be almost 1/2 and you will you will have expensive etc. Maybe €16k incoming from them each year. Giving the cost of living you would still need to work. Would you consider buying more properties so this income would be high for your retirement? I am a landlord for a small apartment & I am thinking to buy a 2nd now the mortgage is paid off.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 8:21pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I've never been to Ibiza, this attitude of assuming all the rest of us are responsible for not being able to get mortgages, and have all been partying and having fun ( I'm not in Fianna Fail. ) and not working hard and saving, is pretty ignorant. Believe it or not you can work incredibly hard and have no fun and still not be granted a mortgage.

Good luck to him indeed but this "poor me" thing is a bit grating. It's just increasing the divide instead of bridging it, which is what he came here for?

Landlord dude, genuinely sorry to hear it hasn't earned you anything yet but it's a pretty great pension plan you got there, it will all come up millhouse

I didn’t come here for anything
It was easy to get a mortgage in 2004-2006
And you are right about Ibiza I wouldn’t go there either !!
Also if I’m grating you don’t have to read any more of the thread

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 8:24pm

gar32 wrote: »

Roughly in 9 years time. If you got say €35k a year without any mortgages. Tax would be almost 1/2 and you will you will have expensive etc. Maybe €16k incoming from them each year. Giving the cost of living you would still need to work. Would you consider buying more properties so this income would be high for your retirement? I am a landlord for a small apartment & I am thinking to buy a 2nd now the mortgage is paid off.

I’m not sure to be honest if I did go again I wouldn’t borrow so much I would try to have at least 50% up ,Also I doubt the bank would give me any more!!
the rents at the moment are around 4300 if that was my only income the tax would be less

gar32 · 04-03-2020 8:30pm

OK 51K a year would be good enough to live on. I would just like to say well done. The negative comment on here from people unable to think bigger then there job's for making money. Enjoy it when it works out for you. Which I am sure it will

ReneeCali · 04-03-2020 8:34pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

That is true yes... I did have to save up the 8% deposit myself an then I think the stamp duty was another 15k and then 2k of solicitors bills . I wanted to get a rental house for my future/pension

The negative spin I was referring to was about that we are all in it for the greed and making a fortune with rents not paying any tax etc..

You are all in it for greed for goodness sake you don't seriously expect us to believe you are doing this out of the goodness of your heart.

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 8:39pm

ReneeCali wrote: »

You are all in it for greed for goodness sake you don't seriously expect us to believe you are doing this out of the goodness of your heart.

Humm Interesting point a business that is run to make a profit = greed ( even tho I have not made any profits at all as previously explained )

Would you not go for a promotion in work because if they paid you more it would be greedy ?
Pls explain what you mean by greed ?
You are aware that I saved up for deposits for years and I have mortgages

helimachoptor · 04-03-2020 8:42pm

ReneeCali wrote: »

You are all in it for greed for goodness sake you don't seriously expect us to believe you are doing this out of the goodness of your heart.

I wouldnt say that, I'm an accidental landlord, bought a place and then through some different circumstances had to rent it out.
Its rented 13 years, last year was the first time there was any cash left over after paying all the bills that come with having a rental.

Also like the Op, mine is a HAP, so we take less than the market rate. I could get a lot more if i kicked my tenants out and got "private" ones.

Iscreamkone · 04-03-2020 8:46pm

ReneeCali wrote: »

You are all in it for greed for goodness sake you don't seriously expect us to believe you are doing this out of the goodness of your heart.

Its not show-friends
It’s show-business, sir.

If he provides housing for a number of families - Bravo.
If he makes a profit - Bravo

Never be embarrassed to make a profit

SuperRabbit · 04-03-2020 8:51pm

If he provides housing for a number of families

I didn't realize he was building social housing

No one said you should be embarrassed to make a profit. I would say you should feel privileged and grateful to have gotten a mortgage while they were giving them away like sweets

I'm a Landlord, AMA · 04-03-2020 9:01pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I didn't realize he was building social housing

No one said you should be embarrassed to make a profit. I would say you should feel privileged and grateful to have gotten a mortgage while they were giving them away like sweets

I don’t really understand your question to be honest ?
Are you saying did I feel privileged that I could work hard and save up untill I qualified for a mortgage ? Do you mean that I should be privileged and grateful I was healthy and was able to work ?
If so I am grateful that I never had any medical issues ......

Also even tho the mortgage criteria was much less back then I still had to
Save up deposit and show p60 and all that .....
Like I still had to qualify for it

SuperRabbit · 04-03-2020 9:16pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

I don’t really understand your question to be honest ?
Are you saying did I feel privileged that I could work hard and save up untill I qualified for a mortgage ? Do you mean that I should be privileged and grateful I was healthy and was able to work ?
If so I am grateful that I never had any medical issues ......

t

Yes yes exactly you should feel privileged and grateful for those things

Also even tho the mortgage criteria was much less back then I still had to
Save up deposit and show p60 and all that .....
Like I still had to qualify for it

and you should feel privileged and grateful because if you were just a bit younger you could do all that and more and still not get a mortgage

Iscreamkone · 04-03-2020 9:34pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

I didn't realize he was building social housing

No one said you should be embarrassed to make a profit. I would say you should feel privileged and grateful to have gotten a mortgage while they were giving them away like sweets

The landlord IS actually providing social housing- he has said that all his properties are in HAP.

Talk of privilege is bo11ix if you ask me.
The landlord applied successfully to the banks for a mortgage (remember the banks expected to make a handsome profit from him). He was hardly privileged when he was 400k in the red was he?

He has kept his enterprise afloat during the worst recession in living memory and some people think he’s like an English landlord of old. His business is like any other - he provides a service that is needed, and he gets paid for it.

ReneeCali · 04-03-2020 10:16pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

Humm Interesting point a business that is run to make a profit = greed ( even tho I have not made any profits at all as previously explained )

Would you not go for a promotion in work because if they paid you more it would be greedy ?
Pls explain what you mean by greed ?
You are aware that I saved up for deposits for years and I have mortgages

Ok, so answer me this...what was your occupation in 2004?

Geuze · 04-03-2020 10:50pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

If you can let me know where the massive profits are then let me know...

Sorry, I haven't read every post, so I may have missed whether the mortgage payments were broken down into:

interest payments
capital repayments

The interest figures are needed to calculate the net rental profits.

You would have these figures yourself, from your annual tax return.

Geuze · 04-03-2020 10:55pm

I'm a Landlord, AMA wrote: »

In the real world when you are dealing with your own bills and subbing the rent etc … Profit IS rent minus mortgage minus Tax bill....

As I said before if I sold everything now I would walk away with zero after 16 years...

I have sympathy with your unrealised capital loss.

I suffered a realised capital loss myself, not nice.

However, net rental profits = gross rent less mortgage interest less other allowable expenses.

After all, you must do this calculation every year for your tax return.

Yes, many landlords must use cash to cover costs, yes, that is a cashflow issue, yes, BUT, they are saving and building up net assets.

Now ye're talking - to a landlord

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