PV inverter options recommendations

lightson · 24-02-2020 1:18pm #1

Hi any advice on inverter choice appreciated.
Im still trying to get round to do DIY 8 panel instal 2.4KW ish.
About to send in ESB (NC6) for where I have to list the inverter I would like to use.
Readily available inverters in Ireland that don't seem to be silly money seem to be

Solis mini 4G 2KW or 3KW
ABB 2.5KW (more expensive)
Trannergy 2.7kw

any view do's dont's appreciated or other options. I have to choose so I can move on.

Thanks in advance

wexfordman2 · 24-02-2020 2:23pm

lightson wrote: »

Hi any advice on inverter choice appreciated.
Im still trying to get round to do DIY 8 panel instal 2.4KW ish.
About to send in ESB (NC6) for where I have to list the inverter I would like to use.
Readily available inverters in Ireland that don't seem to be silly money seem to be

Solis mini 4G 2KW or 3KW
ABB 2.5KW (more expensive)
Trannergy 2.7kw

any view do's dont's appreciated or other options. I have to choose so I can move on.

Thanks in advance

Check on the monitoring side of each inverter, getting data out is as important almost as anything. Compare the portal for each one and see how much data is made available to you.

lightson · 24-02-2020 2:54pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Check on the monitoring side of each inverter, getting data out is as important almost as anything. Compare the portal for each one and see how much data is made available to you.

Thanks yes.
Noticed a thread on the solis inverters seems like if the internet is no on then it didn’t collect data. So if you were away for a week and didn’t leave your router switch on you wouldn’t know what had been going on.
Would ideally like it that the inverter saved all the data and then when internet turned on and dumped/updated it.
Personally hate having router on all the time.
Anyone know if the above is possible?

rolion · 24-02-2020 9:04pm

May i ask why do you think is important to have historical reports or access to some graphs as the first choice based selection ?

Here is my ABB inverter,i think im the only one in Ireland using this manufacturer:
https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/?entityId=10278565

Working fine for the past few years and just coming near to 13MWh.
Very sturdy built, industrial grade and has top components and capacitors inside.

The online interface is ok_ish but i will love to have all the parameters displayed online as they are on the mini display,most important the temperatures.

wexfordman2 · 24-02-2020 9:14pm

rolion wrote: »

May i ask why do you think is important to have historical reports or access to some graphs as the first choice based selection ?

Here is my ABB inverter,i think im the only one in Ireland using this manufacturer:
https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/?entityId=10278565

Working fine for the past few years and just coming near to 13MWh.
Very sturdy built, industrial grade and has top components and capacitors inside.

The online interface is ok_ish but i will love to have all the parameters displayed online as they are on the mini display,most important the temperatures.

Who are you asking ?

rolion · 24-02-2020 9:19pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Who are you asking ?

@lightson !

Also,you can fill the ESB form with whatever type of inverter you like, just needs to be Irish grid approved. Then,you can install one that suits your budget.
No one is going to be checking the inverter type and i see no pressure for you to fill the form and buy the inverter at the same time !

I will look at the ESB meter, it has to be digital reading type !!

lightson · 24-02-2020 10:45pm

rolion wrote: »

May i ask why do you think is important to have historical reports or access to some graphs as the first choice based selection ?

Here is my ABB inverter,i think im the only one in Ireland using this manufacturer:
https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/?entityId=10278565

Working fine for the past few years and just coming near to 13MWh.
Very sturdy built, industrial grade and has top components and capacitors inside.

The online interface is ok_ish but i will love to have all the parameters displayed online as they are on the mini display,most important the temperatures.

Hi Rolion to be honest reliability efficiency and price would be priority. data interest is sometimes I am working away just back at weekends etc and want to know what has been going on and would be great if I didn't have to have router left on in order to collect data..

ABB looks good but is twice the price of the soils !

lightson · 24-02-2020 10:53pm

rolion wrote: »

@lightson !

Also,you can fill the ESB form with whatever type of inverter you like, just needs to be Irish grid approved. Then,you can install one that suits your budget.
No one is going to be checking the inverter type and i see no pressure for you to fill the form and buy the inverter at the same time !

I will look at the ESB meter, it has to be digital reading type !!

..

Is this true that it doesn't matter what inverter I put on the ESB form ??

Really if that is the case that would be useful and I can pic an allowed 3k inverter and move on. not sure what the sparky I have lined up to sign it off and do the final wiring think if it doesn't match the form. do you know the for sure?

Sure you would need to tell them that it is different if it changed ???

my meter is an old spinning Siemens brand.

wexfordman2 · 24-02-2020 10:57pm

lightson wrote: »

Hi Rolion to be honest reliability efficiency and price would be priority. data interest is sometimes I am working away just back at weekends etc and want to know what has been going on and would be great if I didn't have to have router left on in order to collect data..

ABB looks good but is twice the price of the soils !

Can I ask why you have an issue leaving the router on?

lightson · 24-02-2020 11:08pm

Guess don't like leaving things on when I'm out.

prefer to not have wifi on when I'm home but it is most of time...

lightson · 24-02-2020 11:20pm

I suppose I should have asked best reliable 3Kw inverter single string. not silly money

rolion · 24-02-2020 11:28pm

ABB,from your list,is industrial graded equipment.

I'll be very worried if your meter is the old style spinning wheel.
I'll start the procedure to upgrade it to a newer digital type ... yesterday.. I had bad experience with mine...spinning "anti gravity" and counting "against" my wallet.

wexfordman2 · 24-02-2020 11:47pm

lightson wrote: »

Guess don't like leaving things on when I'm out.

prefer to not have wifi on when I'm home but it is most of time...

Genuinely a router is a low power device, very low usage. If WiFi is your concern (and again, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about it), you could/should look for an inverter or data logger that has a wired Ethernet port instead of a wireless one.

Take a look at some of the Irish retail outlets that sell inverters to look at common models, for example prime hybrid or givenergy (mine is givenergy, but both are the same hardware ).

Try and avoid something that is less well known, or does not have Irish distribution, for that extra piece of mind.

lightson · 25-02-2020 12:40pm

so had a conversation with ESB Networks and email back.

dsogenarators@esb.ie don't deal with nc6 forms they go to Athlone and there is no tell or email for them.

on phone was advised that nc6 only for them to check what meter you have and if you want an import export meter.

With regards to tec specs on the form she said it is up to your electrician to decide if esb need notifying...of changes. but didn't think was necessary if it complies.

recommended putting a cover letter with the form with queries as this is the only way to contact esb micro generation dep in Athlone. can't find any email or tell as its all internal communication and bla black.

rolion · 25-02-2020 3:02pm

Im trying to give you an advice: forget the NC6 for the moment.

If your meter is the old analog and spinning wheel type...you need to upgrade it to digital type,be either smart import/export or just digital.
There are rumours that everyone will get a digital meter that can be remotely read (to be "read" as disconnected or kept under control) but that replacement can happen anytime soon or anytime next year(s).

Ring your electricity provider and tell them that you want it upgraded (you pay ESB €170 i think) or you want to change to dual tarif (day and night) and you will get it installed for free.

unkel · 25-02-2020 5:23pm

Don't pay a cent to get any meter installed! :eek:

Every home in Ireland will get smart meters installed starting later this year. These can measure import / export and will be installed completely for free.

rolion · 25-02-2020 7:10pm

unkel wrote: »

Don't pay a cent to get any meter installed! :eek:

Every home in Ireland will get smart meters installed starting later this year. These can measure import / export and will be installed completely for free.

Normal,I'll agree with you but let me ask you if you know how the analog meters behaves at reactive electricity "fed up" to the grid !!?
If I'll be OP,I'll get a digital meter before switch the DC side of the inverter.

Back to topic,if I can go back in time I'll choose a hybrid inverter,get maybe a 2kw power battery and use the Aux backup side of the inverter for lights or life support equipment, just in case some external natural events leaves my home without the grid.
That's based on the geographical location and reliability of the supply line...

lightson · 25-02-2020 10:48pm

Well wouldn't mind an import export meter prefer not to pay for it unless there is a FIT.

can I potentially leave my meter till if and when a fit comes?my meter.jpg

Back to inverters does anyone know do UK inverters work (permitted) in Ireland if they have EN50438? and is that all they must have?

what do you need to check if buying from the uk possibly from eBay or the likes?

Is there a known list of approved inverter for Ireland anywhere?

Thanks

Mr Q · 27-02-2020 5:45pm

lightson wrote: »

Well wouldn't mind an import export meter prefer not to pay for it unless there is a FIT.

can I potentially leave my meter till if and when a fit comes?my meter.jpg

Back to inverters does anyone know do UK inverters work (permitted) in Ireland if they have EN50438? and is that all they must have?

what do you need to check if buying from the uk possibly from eBay or the likes?

Is there a known list of approved inverter for Ireland anywhere?

Thanks

There are ABB Uno 2.0 on eBay at the minute for around the 300 euro mark so they will not always be more expensive than something like a Solis. From a seller with a lot of history too.

ABB have the Irish certs on their website for that model. SMA do similar so I assume most manufacturers have the various certs on their own sites.

spose · 27-02-2020 9:04pm

unkel wrote: »

Don't pay a cent to get any meter installed! :eek:

Every home in Ireland will get smart meters installed starting later this year. These can measure import / export and will be installed completely for free.

But ESB networks told me the export visibility is a different setting that won’t be turned on when they’re installed. I’m guessing it will cost that same €340 to turn it on when fit comes in

rolion · 27-02-2020 10:45pm

spose wrote: »

But ESB networks told me the export visibility is a different setting that won’t be turned on when they’re installed. I’m guessing it will cost that same €340 to turn it on when fit comes in

Corect... they are smart meters such as in digital format and remote monitoring / report for the electricity provider.

beepers · 26-09-2020 11:16pm

If you intend installing an OFF GRID as against a GRID LINKED system do not use the SOLIS RHI-3K-48ES.
My installer installed this inverter however it turned out to be a GRID LINKED inverter with a CRITICAL load on a BACKUP output. Not able to power the main output.

lightson · 28-09-2020 12:02am

Sounds like you installer Fecked up there.
I did end up with solis inverter but am grid tied.

beepers · 02-10-2020 10:24pm

I feel that the key to this mismatch is the ambiguous description of the inverter.
The installer did an extremely neat installion that I would be proud to put my name to if I had done the installation.

beepers · 03-10-2020 9:19pm

lightson wrote: »

Well wouldn't mind an import export meter prefer not to pay for it unless there is a FIT.

can I potentially leave my meter till if and when a fit comes?my meter.jpg

Back to inverters does anyone know do UK inverters work (permitted) in Ireland if they have EN50438? and is that all they must have?

what do you need to check if buying from the uk possibly from eBay or the likes?

Is there a known list of approved inverter for Ireland anywhere?

Thanks

Suggest try "Solartricity" most helpful after my system mismatch (not their system).

05-10-2020 1:06am

spose wrote: »

But ESB networks told me the export visibility is a different setting that won’t be turned on when they’re installed.

this is a good thing if they turn it on they'll be giving out about all the power i donate them. ssshhh...stop complaining you'll ruin it for the rest of us!

that meter price is a disincentive by the way. it's a €50 piece of hardware.

beepers · 10-10-2020 11:08pm

lightson wrote: »

Thanks yes.
Noticed a thread on the solis inverters seems like if the internet is no on then it didn’t collect data. So if you were away for a week and didn’t leave your router switch on you wouldn’t know what had been going on.
Would ideally like it that the inverter saved all the data and then when internet turned on and dumped/updated it.
Personally hate having router on all the time.
Anyone know if the above is possible?

From my experience with a SOLIS inverter keep well clear of them.

mp3guy · 10-10-2020 11:43pm

beepers wrote: »

From my experience with a SOLIS inverter keep well clear of them.

They're a very very popular inverter with standard installs in Ireland unfortunately.

11-10-2020 12:29am

The market is limited to Irish Standards. So it doesn't have to be good so much as certified to have market share.
My hardware is very good but not Irish compliant.

The big players (manufacturers) aren't interest in getting compliance because it's too small a market with near zero uptake.

unkel · 11-10-2020 1:22am

beepers wrote: »

From my experience with a SOLIS inverter keep well clear of them.

From your posts on this thread it seems you and / or your installer messed up. And your Solis inverter was not to blame, can you please clarify?

FWIW my own PV inverter is a Solis 3.6kW dual string input MPPT and it is fully compliant with Irish standards. An excellent piece of kit that I bought brand new for just over GBP200 iirc, an absolute bargain. Has worked perfectly for I think coming up to 3 years now. And to add to that, I have seen it produce 3.7kW, so well above what it is rated for.

11-10-2020 1:40am

I'll race ya Unkel. Mine are all Studer. 10 year warranty. Transformer based, it was a hybrid before hybrids were a thing.
First to 2030 gets two solar panels (or a cold fusion genset if they're invented by then?)

Mine can synchronise with other non-synchronising inverters.:P

(and yes that means you can't sell it and buy a better one with change leftover)

unkel · 11-10-2020 2:03am

The flipper in me doesn't like that stipend of no selling allowed

And the only Studer inverters I ever see for sale online when they are sold are poor value for money, a fool is after buying it, sucking up the shipping costs and the VAT and import duty. Surely you are not that fool importing them from the US, Liam?

But seriously we all need to add our weight into moving to renewables.

11-10-2020 2:23am

Haha nope I stole 'em...as good as, I can send you a link for some it you want.

You know the best thing about big heavy used inverters....they usually get the plastics damaged in shipping and you can get a partial refund of an hundred or two (seriously expensive buying swiss components) fortunately fiberglass is well cheap.

beepers · 11-10-2020 10:47am

unkel wrote: »

From your posts on this thread it seems you and / or your installer messed up. And your Solis inverter was not to blame, can you please clarify?

FWIW my own PV inverter is a Solis 3.6kW dual string input MPPT and it is fully compliant with Irish standards. An excellent piece of kit that I bought brand new for just over GBP200 iirc, an absolute bargain. Has worked perfectly for I think coming up to 3 years now. And to add to that, I have seen it produce 3.7kW, so well above what it is rated for.

Yes WE did. I wanted a system that would supply power to the house (main / consumption output). However the SOLIS inverter supplies power to a "backup output" not the main output in the event of mains failure. As my PV system is in/on an outbuilding this is not suitable. Also the WELL WATER PUMP would need rewiring as it is cabled into its own output on the consumer unit.

graememk · 11-10-2020 10:57am

beepers wrote: »

Yes WE did. I wanted a system that would supply power to the house (main / consumption output). However the SOLIS inverter supplies power to a "backup output" not the main output in the event of mains failure. As my PV system is in/on an outbuilding this is not suitable. Also the WELL WATER PUMP would need rewiring as it is cabled into its own output on the consumer unit.

That scenario would be the same for every grid tied system, also the standard inverters don't even have a EPS output, but the hybrid ones do as they are connected to a battery.

The automatic shutoff in a grid failure is to protect anyone that could be working on the lines and thats why the eps output is on a different line. Which then can be setup to manually or automatically switch over to the backup. Or usually it's just installed to a double socket for handiness

mp3guy · 11-10-2020 12:26pm

graememk wrote: »

That scenario would be the same for every grid tied system, also the standard inverters don't even have a EPS output, but the hybrid ones do as they are connected to a battery.

The automatic shutoff in a grid failure is to protect anyone that could be working on the lines and thats why the eps output is on a different line. Which then can be setup to manually or automatically switch over to the backup. Or usually it's just installed to a double socket for handiness

beepers wrote: »

Yes WE did. I wanted a system that would supply power to the house (main / consumption output). However the SOLIS inverter supplies power to a "backup output" not the main output in the event of mains failure. As my PV system is in/on an outbuilding this is not suitable. Also the WELL WATER PUMP would need rewiring as it is cabled into its own output on the consumer unit.

graememk is right it *should* shut off the main output for grid safety, but you can just put a changeover switch ahead of the supply from your ESB meter to your main consumer unit that has its secondary input from the EPS output of the inverter... provided you don't pull more than the ~3kw I believe it's rated for on back up power? No messing around with superfluous "back up sockets" or rewiring into sub boards etc...

graememk · 11-10-2020 1:39pm

mp3guy wrote: »

graememk is right it *should* shut off the main output for grid safety, but you can just put a changeover switch ahead of the supply from your ESB meter to your main consumer unit that has its secondary input from the EPS output of the inverter... provided you don't pull more than the ~3kw I believe it's rated for on back up power? No messing around with superfluous "back up sockets" or rewiring into sub boards etc...

Yeah I do understand the sub board thing, as it does make it idiot proof, and general installers have to account for that.

A person that understands the system and understands the limit, if your running off backup power you dont be switching on the oven, etc, you only use the essentials.

mp3guy · 11-10-2020 2:15pm

graememk wrote: »

Yeah I do understand the sub board thing, as it does make it idiot proof, and general installers have to account for that.

A person that understands the system and understands the limit, if your running off backup power you dont be switching on the oven, etc, you only use the essentials.

Also any decent inverter ought to just safely shut down when the draw on the EPS is too great. My plan is a manual changeover switch during a power cut, where I can also flick off the heavy loads (shower, oven etc...) on the main consumer unit while switching the changeover to prevent accidents.

11-10-2020 2:26pm

There ought to not be loads connected to the inverter that exceed it's rated output.

mp3guy · 11-10-2020 6:24pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

There ought to not be loads connected to the inverter that exceed it's rated output.

Ideally, but an inverter that doesn't go kaput when accidents happen is better than one that doesn't.

11-10-2020 8:24pm

Sure but your fitter ought have never wired it to enable it to overload. 101.

graememk · 11-10-2020 8:42pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Sure but your fitter ought have never wired it to enable it to overload. 101.

Hence the sub boards etc.

Could you have it doing something fancy like coming through a 10 amp breaker before going to the changeover switch or something like that to protect it? then removing the need for a sub board?

11-10-2020 8:49pm

Split the loads into grid supply and backup. Ie feed the grid loads direct and put the changeover between the mission critical stuff. Standard boaty thing.

mp3guy · 11-10-2020 8:50pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Sure but your fitter ought have never wired it to enable it to overload. 101.

I don't have a fitter or anything wired. 101. :pac:

PV inverter options recommendations

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