Implied term in a contract- Public/civil Service.

Adrianno28 · 21-02-2020 01:13AM #1

I work for a county council in the west of the country and have a contract like everyone. In the course of my work I/we in my team, through necessity/helpfulness in the course of the work, carry out extra duties on a voluntary basis. By extra duties I mean duties we do not have to do, duties not in our contract. Recently, the tasks we volunteer for have been made more formal, for example allocated time in our work day to complete these tasks, whereas before it was just a case of doing the tasks as required. I cant go into specifics!

At what point, looking at employment/contract law does this become part of my "implied terms" in my contract and I cannot refuse to do the tasks? Looking at one website it states; " The employee by his/her actions accepts the change (in the contract)saying or doing anything. Where this continues long enough, the change will be deemed to be part of the contract".

It has been suggested or assumed that we should use our personal mobile phones for some part of these tasks, however, I refused to use my personal phone for work as there are other options available. This wasn't really appreciated by my manager although they didnt make an issue of it, but whatever. :rolleyes:

I have a great job that I love but I feel the line between work and personal is being blurred because we all get on so well on the team, so they just ask us to do something or assume we will do it without asking... its just put on our to do list. So we have to either do it or go to the manager and say I'm not doing it, which of course nobody wants to do.

There are only so many hours in the day and its starting to irritate people.

Any help or suggestions would be great. I know I can just say no but I don't mind being flexible.. up to a point

hardybuck · 21-02-2020 01:19AM

Adrianno28 wrote: »

I work for a county council in the west of the country and have a contract like everyone. In the course of my work I/we in my team, through necessity/helpfulness in the course of the work, carry out extra duties on a voluntary basis. By extra duties I mean duties we do not have to do, duties not in our contract. Recently, the tasks we volunteer for have been made more formal, for example allocated time in our work day to complete these tasks, whereas before it was just a case of doing the tasks as required. I cant go into specifics!

At what point, looking at employment/contract law does this become part of my "implied terms" in my contract and I cannot refuse to do the tasks? Looking at one website it states; " The employee by his/her actions accepts the change (in the contract)saying or doing anything. Where this continues long enough, the change will be deemed to be part of the contract".

It has been suggested or assumed that we should use our personal mobile phones for some part of these tasks, however, I refused to use my personal phone for work as there are other options available. This wasn't really appreciated by my manager although they didnt make an issue of it, but whatever. :rolleyes:

I have a great job that I love but I feel the line between work and personal is being blurred because we all get on so well on the team, so they just ask us to do something or assume we will do it without asking... its just put on our to do list. So we have to either do it or go to the manager and say I'm not doing it, which of course nobody wants to do. There are only so many hours in the day and its starting to irritate people.

Any help or suggestions would be great. I know I can just say no but I don't mind being flexible.. up to a point

Would you not be better off just asking for a work phone? You don't mind the odd call but it's becoming a more regular thing you'd prefer to have a work phone.

If someone put in an FOI for those communications you'd have to give them over for processing.

Adrianno28 · 21-02-2020 01:24AM

hardybuck wrote: »

If someone put in an FOI for those communications you'd have to give them over for processing.

Its not to make calls or use email. its to use the phone to download apps and use for a weekly task. No personal data is being accessed, inputted or processed. But thanks, there could be GDPR implications if the phone is used at all, for any reason in the course of my work.

They wouldnt give me a workphone, because of my grade and I wouldnt want one!

beauf · 21-02-2020 02:43AM

In my experience of people don't want to do something, but can't be seen to refuse, they simply procrastinate and/or do it badly.

Johnny Sausage · 21-02-2020 07:56AM

Adrianno28 wrote: »

Its not to make calls or use email. its to use the phone to download apps and use for a weekly task. No personal data is being accessed, inputted or processed. But thanks, there could be GDPR implications if the phone is used at all, for any reason in the course of my work.

They wouldnt give me a workphone, because of my grade and I wouldnt want one!

could they provide a tablet or similar handheld device like an itouch or whatever (i dunno if they sill even make those) for the apps?

LeBash · 21-02-2020 08:19AM

Adrianno28 wrote: »

I work for a county council in the west of the country and have a contract like everyone. In the course of my work I/we in my team, through necessity/helpfulness in the course of the work, carry out extra duties on a voluntary basis. By extra duties I mean duties we do not have to do, duties not in our contract. Recently, the tasks we volunteer for have been made more formal, for example allocated time in our work day to complete these tasks, whereas before it was just a case of doing the tasks as required. I cant go into specifics!

At what point, looking at employment/contract law does this become part of my "implied terms" in my contract and I cannot refuse to do the tasks? Looking at one website it states; " The employee by his/her actions accepts the change (in the contract)saying or doing anything. Where this continues long enough, the change will be deemed to be part of the contract".

It has been suggested or assumed that we should use our personal mobile phones for some part of these tasks, however, I refused to use my personal phone for work as there are other options available. This wasn't really appreciated by my manager although they didnt make an issue of it, but whatever. :rolleyes:

I have a great job that I love but I feel the line between work and personal is being blurred because we all get on so well on the team, so they just ask us to do something or assume we will do it without asking... its just put on our to do list. So we have to either do it or go to the manager and say I'm not doing it, which of course nobody wants to do. There are only so many hours in the day and its starting to irritate people.

Any help or suggestions would be great. I know I can just say no but I don't mind being flexible.. up to a point

You say you love your great job. Stick the app on the phone and dont let it blur you work and private life by not opening it at night when your not working. You can use your settings to turn off notifications at 5pm for the app of you want.

This sounds a little childish imo.

Diceicle · 21-02-2020 08:24AM

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

could they provide a tablet or similar handheld device like an itouch or whatever (i dunno if they sill even make those) for the apps?

In my experience of the public sector - certain parts of it are tight as a ducks when it comes to spend particularlt outside the Corporate teams, more so when you are of a lower to middle Grade. Senior Management, not so much. I know management with Surface Pro tablets being used as paper-weights - or presumably brought home for the kids to use at this stage.

OP are you in the union? It might be worth getting their take on things.

21-02-2020 08:40AM

Adrianno28 wrote: »

Its not to make calls or use email. its to use the phone to download apps and use for a weekly task. No personal data is being accessed, inputted or processed. But thanks, there could be GDPR implications if the phone is used at all, for any reason in the course of my work.

They wouldnt give me a workphone, because of my grade and I wouldnt want one!

So it’s an app/tool that you use for work, which doesn’t cost anything? Where’s the problem with that?

Batgurl · 21-02-2020 11:25AM

Personally, I’d never use a personal device, equipment, asset in the course of my work. Leave aside the “I don’t want to” because if they choose to get you one, you are contractually obliged to use it during work hours. Focus on the legal implications.

As someone previously pointed out, there’s an information privacy issue. If any legal or FOI issue comes up, it’s your phone that will be taken and held.

Is it insured as a work device? If not, and you damage it, it’s likely not covered. Will your work replace?

Who’s responsibility is the maintenance and upkeep? What if the screen gets smashed? Or the app performance decreases? Or you get drunk on a night out and lose it? Will they buy you a new one or will you be expected to replace? Most people probably wouldn’t replace straight away but if you need it for work, what’s the solution?

There’s also the moral issue. Where do you draw the line when expecting people to supply their own work equipment? If you choose to give up your smartphone for ideological reasons (a growing number of people are moving back to analog-esque devices) what do they expect you to do?

It’s worth discussing all this with your manager. Of course you could take the nuclear option and say you’ve downsized to a non-smartphone. Force their hand?

21-02-2020 01:15PM

Batgurl wrote: »

Personally, I’d never use a personal device, equipment, asset in the course of my work. Leave aside the “I don’t want to” because if they choose to get you one, you are contractually obliged to use it during work hours. Focus on the legal implications.

As someone previously pointed out, there’s an information privacy issue. If any legal or FOI issue comes up, it’s your phone that will be taken and held.

Is it insured as a work device? If not, and you damage it, it’s likely not covered. Will your work replace?

Who’s responsibility is the maintenance and upkeep? What if the screen gets smashed? Or the app performance decreases? Or you get drunk on a night out and lose it? Will they buy you a new one or will you be expected to replace? Most people probably wouldn’t replace straight away but if you need it for work, what’s the solution?

There’s also the moral issue. Where do you draw the line when expecting people to supply their own work equipment? If you choose to give up your smartphone for ideological reasons (a growing number of people are moving back to analog-esque devices) what do they expect you to do?

It’s worth discussing all this with your manager. Of course you could take the nuclear option and say you’ve downsized to a non-smartphone. Force their hand?

You are over thinking this me thinks, when you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras. Its an app on a phone which involves no personal data input.

Fann Linn · 21-02-2020 01:22PM

LeBash wrote: »

You say you love your great job. Stick the app on the phone and dont let it blur you work and private life by not opening it at night when your not working. You can use your settings to turn off notifications at 5pm for the app of you want.

This sounds a little childish imo.

Not a bit childish at all IMO. Like the op I work in a LA and I'm provided with a work phone and samsung tab for work related apps calls emails etc.

The op should refuse to use his own phone for work related tasks. Aside from GDPR, FOI requests etc its nice to leave both inside the van in the evening, on weekends and when on A/L.

Typing on my own phone now btw!!!

21-02-2020 01:37PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Not a bit childish at all IMO. Like the op I work in a LA and I'm provided with a work phone and samsung tab for work related apps calls emails etc.

The op should refuse to use his own phone for work related tasks. Aside from GDPR, FOI requests etc its nice to leave both inside the van in the evening, on weekends and when on A/L.

Typing on my own phone now btw!!!

Why would the op/an employee recieve a FOI request for what’s on his/her phone? If that data is uploaded to LA database, it would be the LA who would have to provide the information. And please read GDPR regs, the op is not storing personal data, please, enough with the FOI and GDPR crap.

Fann Linn · 21-02-2020 01:55PM

Dav010 wrote: »

Why would the op/an employee recieve a FOI request for what’s on his/her phone? If that data is uploaded to LA database, it would be the LA who would have to provide the information. And please read GDPR regs, the op is not storing personal data, please, enough with the FOI and GDPR crap.

I said disregard FOI and GDPR requests.

Burgo · 21-02-2020 02:38PM

There is no reason they shouldn't be providing a device to use, just a manager not bothered about going through the proper channels to requisition one. It's just easier to ask staff to use their own.

beauf · 21-02-2020 03:17PM

I don't think its the main issue. The main issue is more stuff being added to the workload, that was ok when it was infrequent and temporary.

But now its become part of their normal routine and its increased the workload, perhaps to the point at which its unsustainable.

Implied term in a contract- Public/civil Service.

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