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CAP cuts/ do we have a Taoiseach?

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  • 18-02-2020 8:57am
    #1
    Masifxx
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭


    I heard Tim Cullinan on the Radio about proposals from the EU to cut CAP payments. He said the latest proposal could cost Irish farmers €100m per year? He said this could be decided this Thursday. Yet our politicians seem totally focussed on the outcome of the election. It seems that only for the IFA in Brussels there wouldn’t have been a word about it. This is a serious worry. Do we actually have a Taoiseach to go to this meeting?


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    #2
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    The money pot is getting smaller, society has moved on from food security, The focus is on biodiversity and climate action.

    Leo is going over, not that sending Leo on this errand was ever going to yield much but that’s what we have.


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    #3
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭alps


    Masifxx wrote: »
    I heard Tim Cullinan on the Radio about proposals from the EU to cut CAP payments. He said the latest proposal could cost Irish farmers €100m per year? He said this could be decided this Thursday. Yet our politicians seem totally focussed on the outcome of the election. It seems that only for the IFA in Brussels there wouldn’t have been a word about it. This is a serious worry. Do we actually have a Taoiseach to go to this meeting?

    You'd be concerned about the timing. Leo will be in our corner. He gave pre-election commitments to make up any CAP shorfall, but how motivated will he be? Is there less skin in the game for him now?


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    #4
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    alps wrote: »
    You'd be concerned about the timing. Leo will be in our corner. He gave pre-election commitments to make up any CAP shorfall, but how motivated will he be? Is there less skin in the game for him now?

    I can’t see Leo had any skin in the game anyway. Doesn’t affect anything inside the M50 so the blueshirts would have but a passing interest.


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    #5
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Probably going over to see if there are any jobs going, can't see his ego living in a minority coalition government


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    #6
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,265 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/taoiseach-i-will-be-arguing-that-cap-funding-should-at-least-be-maintained/

    The Toiseach is going out however IFA are only trying to cover there own ass. Remember the three candidates and there stance on upward only convergence. It was pointed out that there would be cuts and that there was little chance of maintaining Cap funding. There is three battles going on the amount of the budget, national convergence and EU convergence. There may be a move to national funding bring allowed. This may be a disaster for Ireland as we are a net agri exporter as opposed to most other nations being net importers.

    At some stage IFA and government have to start dealing with the reality on the ground that the answer to farm income lies at milk and meat processor's gates.

    The issue of convergence will see the average entitlement Inc greening being a out 220 euro. Even if the minimum entitlement stays at 150 euro it leaves cuts of 20-25 %on above average entitlement. This will make maintenance of historical payments unsustainable. It will also mean a maximum payment level will be put on place and now this may be sub 50k.

    I suspects lot of the realignment will be left to national governments

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #7
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,096 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/taoiseach-i-will-be-arguing-that-cap-funding-should-at-least-be-maintained/

    The Toiseach is going out however IFA are only trying to cover there own ass. Remember the three candidates and there stance on upward only convergence. It was pointed out that there would be cuts and that there was little chance of maintaining Cap funding. There is three battles going on the amount of the budget, national convergence and EU convergence. There may be a move to national funding bring allowed. This may be a disaster for Ireland as we are a net agri exporter as opposed to most other nations being net importers.

    At some stage IFA and government have to start dealing with the reality on the ground that the answer to farm income lies at milk and meat processor's gates.

    The issue of convergence will see the average entitlement Inc greening being a out 220 euro. Even if the minimum entitlement stays at 150 euro it leaves cuts of 20-25 %on above average entitlement. This will make maintenance of historical payments unsustainable. It will also mean a maximum payment level will be put on place and now this may be sub 50k.

    I suspects lot of the realignment will be left to national governments

    I'm afraid that scarcity is the only solution to the beef price conundrum and that's the reality , standing at factory gates are only a joke.
    There's eight or nine different farm organizations, if it was that easy, one of them would've solved it


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    #8
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    wrangler wrote: »
    I'm afraid that scarcity is the only solution to the beef price conundrum and that's the reality , standing at factory gates are only a joke.
    There's eight or nine different farm organizations, if it was that easy, one of them would've solved it

    I'm actually coming round to the idea that even scarcity will have SFA effect on the price of beef in the long term. Even if we halved the national herd the price might rise in the short term but without supply the processors will just look further afield and import the deficit and still pay naff all for home produced beef.

    At the end of the day the consumer talks a good fight about buying local and paying more for Irish beef but when inside in the supermarket that's all forgotten and the cheapest price wins out regardless of where it comes from.


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    #9
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,096 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    tractorporn wrote: »
    I'm actually coming round to the idea that even scarcity will have SFA effect on the price of beef in the long term. Even if we halved the national herd the price might rise in the short term but without supply the processors will just look further afield and import the deficit and still pay naff all for home produced beef.

    At the end of the day the consumer talks a good fight about buying local and paying more for Irish beef but when inside in the supermarket that's all forgotten and the cheapest price wins out regardless of where it comes from.

    Yea, should've said a world scarcity. Irish production won't make much difference .


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    #10
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,388 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Am I right in thinking that such a reduction would result in a cut to the SFP and such?

    I ask as I receive no payments so not up with the lingo


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    #11
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,096 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Am I right in thinking that such a reduction would result in a cut to the SFP and such?

    I ask as I receive no payments so not up with the lingo

    I doubt it, the reverse might be nearer reality. even you might be on the BPS treadmill next year.


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    #12
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,388 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    wrangler wrote: »
    I doubt it, the reverse might be nearer reality. even you might be on the BPS treadmill next year.

    Never look for payments. Less hassle


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    #13
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Never look for payments. Less hassle

    No hassle in payments.


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    #14
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,388 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    _Brian wrote: »
    No hassle in payments.

    No inspections either


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    #15
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,265 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Am I right in thinking that such a reduction would result in a cut to the SFP and such?

    I ask as I receive no payments so not up with the lingo

    There is 3-4 challenges to SFP/BPS, Brexit had reduced the budget, there would have been a push towards a reduction anyway, you have convergence and finally you have the threat to link payment to climate change or bio diversity.

    Brexit alone if linear would cause a 15% cut in virtually one swell swoop. But there will be a push on climate change and convergence as well. Where that leaves the old chestnut of upward only convergence no one knows

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #16
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Am I right in thinking that such a reduction would result in a cut to the SFP and such?

    I ask as I receive no payments so not up with the lingo

    It depends on what pillar they end up cutting and by how much. Pillar 1 is the BPS and some want that cut right back and the money diverted to Pillar 2. Pillar 2 is the environmental, conservation and special schemes like AEOS and Glas.

    It's looking likely there will be a 10% cut and that will target those over the average payments more than those under the average due to convergence. The 5 biggest countries paying into it don't want to contribute any more while the biggest recipients want a bigger budget and a bigger share of what budget there is.

    The talk is about an increase in contribution from 1% to 1.1% of GDP, iirc.


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    #17
    Grueller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Reggie. wrote: »
    No inspections either

    Sure what have you to worry about. If you are doing things semi right there is nothing to go wrong.


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    #18
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,388 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Grueller wrote: »
    Sure what have you to worry about. If you are doing things semi right there is nothing to go wrong.

    I like the simple life. Everyone piss off away from me :D


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    #19
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,236 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Arms cache. :rolleyes:


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    #20
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,388 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Say my name wrote: »
    Arms cache. :rolleyes:

    Due to the cost rise of ammo, a warning shot will not be issued


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    #21
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,523 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Reggie. wrote: »
    No inspections either

    Haven’t had an inspection here in about 18 years.


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    #22
    Cattlepen
    Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭Cattlepen


    I think it’s all scaremongering so a smaller cut to the cap will look like a victory. They need the cap if they want a way of keeping us obedient


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    #23
    Neddyusa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Neddyusa


    _Brian wrote: »
    Haven’t had an inspection here in about 18 years.

    That's it - you've jinxed it now.
    You'll get the phonecall in the morning!


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    #24
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,388 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Neddyusa wrote: »
    That's it - you've jinxed it now.
    You'll get the phonecall in the morning!

    Guaranteed


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    #25
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,672 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Full flattening of payments appears to be the only answer to a shrinking CAP budget - the massive payments going to the biggest operators and corporations cannot be justified at any level in the years ahead


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    #26
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,907 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Full flattening of payments appears to be the only answer to a shrinking CAP budget - the massive payments going to the biggest operators and corporations cannot be justified at any level in the years ahead

    I think they had their decades in the sun. What does convergence mean?


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    #27
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    I think they had their decades in the sun. What does convergence mean?

    Convergence means cutting the higher value entitlements and raising the lower value entitlements so that eventually they are all close to the national average. This has been happening since 2015 I think it is. So lads who had higher than national average entitlements per hectare have been having cuts for the last 5 years and those under average have been getting increases.

    There is also country convergence at EU level whereby the countries with the highest average entitlement values are being cut and the countries with the lowest value entitlements are getting increases

    Basically it’s a way of getting all entitlements closer to the same value across the EU

    If I remember correctly Ireland’s value is pretty much on average for the EU so country convergence won’t have a massive impact on us - someone might correct that if I’m wrong


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    #28
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,096 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Reggie. wrote: »
    Never look for payments. Less hassle

    Some thought they were cute hoors in the 1990s with the same idea,
    They're now complaining about poor entitlements


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    #29
    Reggie.
    Registered Users Posts: 24,388 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    wrangler wrote: »
    Some thought they were cute hoors in the 1990s with the same idea,
    They're now complaining about poor entitlements

    I ain't one


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    #30
    Masifxx
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Masifxx


    These payments bring in over €1billion a year to farmers in Ireland. Sure there is compliance/inspections but not many farmers could afford to ignore payments or take less payments unless you have other sources of income. The price of our product is getting further from our control. We had protests of all kinds last year and still no impact on the beef price. Drove it down if anything.
    Payments are a political decision. Farmers fund an IFA office in Brussels and this is where the action is on this. Are the farm Groups in other countries putting up much of a fight? Looks to me like the farm lobby in Europe has weakened?


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    #31
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    A bit more on the discussion of funding.

    'We face a real battle to save CAP budget' - Taoiseach concedes

    https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/schemes/we-face-a-real-battle-to-save-cap-budget-taoiseach-concedes-38964521.html


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