Caroline Flack found dead

SusieBlue · 18-02-2020 11:38AM

Hammer89 wrote: »

The photos were real but according to him and another report recently, the blood wasn't his.

That's a huge piece of context that the tabloids are guilty of manipulating. It was presented in such a way that you can be left in no doubt that it was his blood, and then that enhances the drama, which in turn enhances the public's disdain for the woman.

There's a good chance they didn't know that it wasn't his blood at the time, which makes it even worse because when a news outlet is assuming things, rather than knowing them, then Jesus, what chance do any of us have if we find ourselves in their pages one day?

And this is why people are calling for a change in laws. She isn't the first person they've done this to and she won't be the last.

The relentless taunting and bullying by the press over the last few months absolutely was a contributing factor in her suicide.
Even the most mentally stable person wouldn't be able to cope with that level of abuse and intrusion.

retro:electro · 18-02-2020 11:46AM

In fairness none of us actually know whose blood it was. That’s a detail that would have become apparent in the trial as it would all have been tested. He’s saying it wasn’t his, he’s also saying he wasn’t hit and that nothing happened. It might not be his, it could all be hers, or it could be a mix of both. Even the smallest of head injuries are notoriously bloody, but if she had wrist lacerations there is bound to be her blood too. We’ll likely never know now.

Tea Shock · 18-02-2020 11:55AM

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Anyway, i thought Nick Ferrari made some fair points on the last word yesterday afternoon. If you didn't hear it, he pretty much said it was not the Media's fault

I heard it and I thought Ferrari was an arsehole

He's pretty much a man with a history of redtop scummy journalism saying anything he can to protect redtop scummy journalism - and the wild generalizations he made and applied to Caroline Flack didn't hold much merit!

Porklife · 18-02-2020 11:58AM

Boggles wrote: »

It was more than likely heading for the magistrates court, 1 maybe 2 days max.

Again people seem to be completely missing the possibility that there was a extremely strong chance she would have been found not guilty.

Even if she was found guilty, she would have been looking at probably a fine as a first offender.

Of course when one reads headlines like "Bedroom Bloodbath" accompanied by fake crime scene photos covered in blood, then yes I imagine certain minds could be bent into thinking we are dealing with a modern day Rose West.

I agree with you but as she suffered from depression, she was probably imagining the worst case scenario and picturing herself vilified and hated by the public and at least ten years in prison. People suffering from depression tend to be very negative with their train of thoughts and tend to have obsessive thoughts that drive them demented. I'm sure her family and friends tried to reassure her of all possible outcomes but I would imagine she was absolutely thinking the worst and could not handle it.

Sardonicat · 18-02-2020 12:01PM

Did she suffer from depression?

seamus · 18-02-2020 12:09PM

Tea Shock wrote: »

I heard it and I thought Ferrari was an arsehole

This tbh. His role on TLW is to be a bit contrary, but he's usually not an outright troll.

But basically his only response to it was, "She knew how the game was played, this is the game, this is how it works". Which is the biggest load of sh1te.

But that's always been the tabloid excuse; "You can't court the press when things are on the up, and then expect them to leave you alone when you're on the way down".

Of course you can. That's like saying, "You can't expect someone to pay you money when you do a good job, and not take it back from you when you stop working for them".

Porklife · 18-02-2020 12:10PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Did she suffer from depression?

Apparently she did... I read that she did.. she definitely had mental health issues.

Millicently · 18-02-2020 12:12PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

You said this earlier in the thread as well and I’m still waiting for an explanation on where the double standards were.
She lost her career, she was annihilated by the press and the police pressed charges even though her bf didn’t want them to. She had zero public support.
Everyone took the allegations most seriously.

It’s possible to recognise that it’s sad and needless that she committed suicide while accepting she was wrong to assault her partner (if the allegations are true).
You can believe both things, it doesn’t have to be one or the other, and it doesn’t mean there are double standards. It’s called being human.

That’s why people are upset over her passing.
Not because they’re forgotten what she did, but because they empathise with the level of hopelessness & despair she felt that the only option to her was to take her own life.

TBH this smacks a lot of the bizarre hysteria over princess Diana's death, it's like misery porn. People didn't know her, they knew her contrived public persona but they feel that somehow she should have been exempt from public scrutiny and prosecution. So sick and tired of this woman being portrayed as a victim.

She didn't have her ex boyfriend sign a nondisclosure agreement for no reason. She assaulted her boyfriend and while he seems to be an attention seeking asshole he didn't deserve it, but a lot of people seem to think he did. All said and done, a random woman who presented so called Reality TV shows killed herself because she didn't want to face a court case for domestic violence. It's not the end of the world. She's not a saint, she was a TV persona, if people want to get upset about a death at least make it about something that matters, not some dead celebrity who'd have sold her own mother if it got her a step up the ladder.

vixdname · 18-02-2020 12:14PM

"So with all that info you must have direct and unfettered access to the police interviews and CPS Book of Evidence. Fair ****s."

"Clearly 'she' was a close and dear friend of yours with that concise summation".

Not at all, the facts I outlined are all readily available in public domain.

Not sure you who insisted with the "She" quotation but wasn't the person in question female ??? hence the "She".

Apparently youre getting so upset about the content of this discussion I can only surmise it was yourself who was a dear close friend of this girl.

How well did you know her ???

Stevieluvsye · 18-02-2020 12:17PM

Millicently wrote: »

TBH this smacks a lot of the bizarre hysteria over princess Diana's death, it's like misery porn. People didn't know her, they knew her contrived public persona but they feel that somehow she should have been exempt from public scrutiny and prosecution. So sick and tired of this woman being portrayed as a victim.

She didn't have her ex boyfriend sign a nondisclosure agreement for no reason. She assaulted her boyfriend and while he seems to be an attention seeking asshole he didn't deserve it, but a lot of people seem to think he did. All said and done, a random woman who presented so called Reality TV shows killed herself because she didn't want to face a court case for domestic violence. It's not the end of the world. She's not a saint, she was a TV persona, if people want to get upset about a death at least make it about something that matters, not some dead celebrity who'd have sold her own mother if it got her a step up the ladder.

Well said.

I don't have any delight in her death but she came across as a thunderkunt who loved herself.

I had an argument with wife last night on this "How do you know what the fcuk she was like" says she. Just giving my opinion of her, says i

Hannibal_Smith · 18-02-2020 12:17PM

Millicently wrote: »

TBH this smacks a lot of the bizarre hysteria over princess Diana's death, it's like misery porn. People didn't know her, they knew her contrived public persona but they feel that somehow she should have been exempt from public scrutiny and prosecution. So sick and tired of this woman being portrayed as a victim.

She didn't have her ex boyfriend sign a nondisclosure agreement for no reason. She assaulted her boyfriend and while he seems to be an attention seeking asshole he didn't deserve it, but a lot of people seem to think he did. All said and done, a random woman who presented so called Reality TV shows killed herself because she didn't want to face a court case for domestic violence. It's not the end of the world. She's not a saint, she was a TV persona, if people want to get upset about a death at least make it about something that matters, not some dead celebrity who'd have sold her own mother if it got her a step up the ladder.

Who said he deserved to be assaulted?

If you don't think she and her death matter, then why is it a point of discussion for you? It's like an online version of rubbernecking.

sashafierce · 18-02-2020 12:19PM

Porklife wrote: »

You didn't know her though, you liked how she presented herself or who you assumed she was but you didn't actually know her.

I think the very fact that she allegedly attacked her boyfriend, sleeping or otherwise after reading a text message shows a clear sign of mental instability. If she had larcerations on her wrists at the same it further cements this. Finding out somebody is cheating on you is horrific (I've been there so I know the pain) but your reaction shouldn't be to attack them. The girl was obviously unwell and even told paramedics the night before that she was suicidal.

Obviously nobody thinks her assault was justified (that is of course if she did it) but ultimately it is irrelevant now. The woman took her own life. If she was guilty of the crime that surely that is punishment enough. My personal view is that she probably did hit him with the lamp and was so terrified of the truth coming out and a long and arduous trial that she just couldn't handle it and instead took her own life.

It can't be easy living in the public eye and being surrounded by young beautiful women on a daily basis. She was clearly struggling to cope with it all and it has sadly ended in tragedy.

No one knows anyone only themselves. As with all celebrities and all people we only know what we see and what I seen of her I really liked. She was one of my favourite celebrities and I've followed her since I'm a celeb. I'm so sad this happened to her ðŸ˜¢

RabbleRouser2k · 18-02-2020 12:20PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Did she suffer from depression?

Yep, had a pretty well documented history of it. Even when she won Strictly Come Dancing, she woke up the next day crippled with depression.

Had taken medication for it too.

Having my own history of mental illness, I know how absolutely s**t one can feel.

The 'fake friends' thing you end up with in the whole 'showbiz' crud wouldn't help that.

Fr_Dougal · 18-02-2020 12:25PM

seamus wrote: »

But basically his only response to it was, "She knew how the game was played, this is the game, this is how it works". Which is the biggest load of sh1te.

But that's always been the tabloid excuse; "You can't court the press when things are on the up, and then expect them to leave you alone when you're on the way down".

Of course you can. That's like saying, "You can't expect someone to pay you money when you do a good job, and not take it back from you when you stop working for them".

I disagree with you, Seamus.

It’s actually like saying “You can’t expect someone to give you positive media coverage when you do a good job, and not give you negative media coverage when you mess up”.

She courted the media, magazines, photo shoots, interviews.

SusieBlue · 18-02-2020 12:27PM

Millicently wrote: »

TBH this smacks a lot of the bizarre hysteria over princess Diana's death, it's like misery porn. People didn't know her, they knew her contrived public persona but they feel that somehow she should have been exempt from public scrutiny and prosecution. So sick and tired of this woman being portrayed as a victim.

She didn't have her ex boyfriend sign a nondisclosure agreement for no reason. She assaulted her boyfriend and while he seems to be an attention seeking asshole he didn't deserve it, but a lot of people seem to think he did. All said and done, a random woman who presented so called Reality TV shows killed herself because she didn't want to face a court case for domestic violence. It's not the end of the world. She's not a saint, she was a TV persona, if people want to get upset about a death at least make it about something that matters, not some dead celebrity who'd have sold her own mother if it got her a step up the ladder.

Wow, that response is quite hysterical. I never said she should be exempt from critcism or scrutiny, and I (nor anyine else here) never said her boyfriend deserved to be assaulted. So you're getting your knickers in a twist due to your own lack of comprehension there.

You don't seem have an ounce of empathy or compassion in your body. I'm not portraying her as a victim, I am seeing her for the human that she is.
Human beings are flawed creatures by nature.

You and your inisistence at portraying her to be some sort of She Devil is as bad as those who are making a martyr out of her. For someone who claims to think her death is irrelevant and unworthy of any pity, you sure seem to have a lot of strong, anger filled opinions on her.
My view is far more balanced than yours is. This isn't a black and white situation, as much as you would like it to be.

Did it ever occur to you that suicide is something that may have personally touched the lives of some of those posting here? That is why I feel pity.
Everyone should have a shot at redemption but she saw such little hope for her future, she didn't give herself the chance.
I think that's really sad and I won't apologise for having empathy towards another person when I'm not perfect myself.
I will never be the kind of person that rejoices at the death of another & its quite stomach turning that some here are determined to do that.

Porklife · 18-02-2020 12:28PM

sashafierce wrote: »

No one knows anyone only themselves. As with all celebrities and all people we only know what we see and what I seen of her I really liked. She was one of my favourite celebrities and I've followed her since I'm a celeb. I'm so sad this happened to her &#55357;&#56866;

How do you feel about the alleged assault out of interest?

I don't know her at all and have never watched Love Island or I'm a Celebrity so had zero opinion or knowledge of her (bar her name and I knew what she looked like) until now.

Sephiroth_dude · 18-02-2020 12:31PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

You're an absolute liar. Show me the post. You're the same poster who has already gone back on something in this thread and now you're about to do it again. Anything I said earlier was limited to the allegation of the lamp you utter clown, not the attack itself. I'm fairly sure I even said something like the attack aspect was undeniable. Is this your tactic when you're not getting your own way? First call the other person bias and then lie about something they said. Very mature.

Mod

Absolutely no need to call other poster's names, cop on.

sashafierce · 18-02-2020 12:33PM

Porklife wrote: »

How do you feel about the alleged assault out of interest?

I don't know her at all and have never watched Love Island or I'm a Celebrity so had zero opinion or knowledge of her (bar her name and I knew what she looked like) until now.

Honestly I feel sad it happened but I don't judge her because I don't know what happened and I wasn't there. However, I've been in a relationship where things got physical on both ends so maybe I relate a bit more and that's why it's gotten me so down the last few days.

From what I seen of her she seemed so lovely and had a great personality. That's what I choose to remember her by.

Porklife · 18-02-2020 12:39PM

sashafierce wrote: »

Honestly I feel sad it happened but I don't judge her because I don't know what happened and I wasn't there. However, I've been in a relationship where things got physical on both ends so maybe I relate a bit more and that's why it's gotten me so down the last few days.

From what I seen of her she seemed so lovely and had a great personality. That's what I choose to remember her by.

I understand. I didn't know anything about her and I felt really down reading about it on Sunday and have been thinking alot about it since. Regardless of what happened that night, we know for absolute certain what happened on Saturday evening and it's incredibly sad no doubt about it.

retro:electro · 18-02-2020 12:42PM

It is possible to:
- believe what she allegedly did was appalling and worthy of charges
- believe the CPS were right to bring the case to trial
- believe the whole thing had no business being in the public domain until (if a) conviction was secured
- believe the press and media are ruthless who don’t know when to stop and there should be restrictions when something sensitive like this is subjudice (the bloody picture was especially appalling and had no business being circulated before a trial)
- believe that there are so many self serving narcissists now jumping out of the woodwork for their own gain
- believe Caroline was a deeply troubled girl whose death can’t be simplified, explained away or others prevented by forming simple hashtag.

You can think all of those things individually and then objectively think the whole thing is an extremely sad, tragic and unnecessary situation. She wasn’t a martyr but she also wasn’t evil. She was human and she had good and bad inside of her like all of us. She was clearly loved by a lot of people, had a lot of friends who adored her and it’s lovely to see. You’re allowed to have a spectrum of conflicting opinions with regards to the circumstances because it’s not straightforward, it’s a complex situation with a lot of emotionally triggering dynamics at play.

Sardonicat · 18-02-2020 12:45PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Yep, had a pretty well documented history of it. Even when she won Strictly Come Dancing, she woke up the next day crippled with depression.

Had taken medication for it too.

Having my own history of mental illness, I know how absolutely s**t one can feel.

The 'fake friends' thing you end up with in the whole 'showbiz' crud wouldn't help that.

I do too (have a history of quite severe episodes of depression) . I'm not buying that as a reason ot an excuse for assaulting her partner though (if she did). Reading about her behaviour I have no doubt that she had mental health issues but depression isn't what sprung to my mind. Obviously, I don't know the full picture, though. It's sad that her life spiralled out to the degree it did to the point she was harming others and herself and ultimately she is dead. Truly awful

Hannibal_Smith · 18-02-2020 12:46PM

Some of the pedal back brakes must be at breaking point.

18-02-2020 12:48PM

surely working in a very public media role is completely unsuited to very emotionally unstable people.

Stevieluvsye · 18-02-2020 12:51PM

glasso wrote: »

surely working in a very public media role is completely unsuited to very emotionally unstable people.

My understanding (and i was told this by a ladyfriend this morning) is that she only started to develop signs of depression once she entered the public eye, maybe it was after she got slaughtered for dating that 1 direction lad

Porklife · 18-02-2020 12:52PM

retro:electro wrote: »

It is possible to:
- believe what she allegedly did was appalling and worthy of charges
- believe the CPS were right to bring the case to trial
- believe the whole thing had no business being in the public domain until (if a) conviction was secured
- believe the press and media are ruthless who don’t know when to stop and there should be restrictions when something sensitive like this is subjudice (the bloody picture was especially appalling and had no business being circulated before a trial)
- believe that there are so many self serving narcissists now jumping out of the woodwork for their own gain
- believe Caroline was a deeply troubled girl whose death can’t be simplified, explained away or others prevented by forming simple hashtag.

You can think all of those things individually and then objectively think the whole thing is an extremely sad, tragic and unnecessary situation. She wasn’t a martyr but she also wasn’t evil. She was human and she had good and bad inside of her like all of us. She was clearly loved by a lot of people, had a lot of friends who adored her and it’s lovely to see. You’re allowed to have a spectrum of conflicting opinions with regards to the circumstances because it’s not straightforward, it’s a complex situation with a lot of emotionally triggering dynamics at play.

It's possible in my book because it's exactly how I feel! Well said.

Sardonicat · 18-02-2020 12:54PM

glasso wrote: »

surely working in a very public media role is completely unsuited to very emotionally unstable people.

Amen to that! Sadly, some conditions lend themselves to a constant craving for attention and approval. All you have to do is look at the type of individuals who put themselves forward for reality TV. They are the last people who should be there but make 'good tv' so are chosen to up the ratings . It's all pretty grim

Ray Palmer · 18-02-2020 12:58PM

retro:electro wrote: »

You can think all of those things individually and then objectively think the whole thing is an extremely sad, tragic and unnecessary situation. She wasn’t a martyr but she also wasn’t evil.

You actually don't know anything for sure. She may very well have been "evil". It is such a riddiculious thing to call people as it is completely subjective.
We don't know if she committed suicide over guilt, scrutiny or fears of more information coming out.

Compare what happened to John Lesslie. He lost his job and was found innocent. Now try Meline Sky. She was convicted of spousal abuse yet presents a show on BBC 2. The outcome for Flock was always going to be less than that of a man. If John Lesslie killed himself before his trial I very much doubt there would be such support for him.

retro:electro · 18-02-2020 12:59PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Some of the pedal back brakes must be at breaking point.

I’m sure that’s aimed at me, because it wouldn’t be like you to be passive aggressive. I’ve never back peddled, I’ll refer you to my very first post here which are still my feelings on it all. It’s possible to have a spectrum of emotions when there are a lot of dynamics at play:

The media didn’t kill her. She was charged with assault, were they just meant to ignore that fact and pretend it never happened? Having said that, social media has created a level of accessibility where you can literally @whoeveryoulike and abuse them to your hearts content, with a vulnerable person like this, in a situation like that, like this it’s a recipe for disaster.

It’s incredibly sad that this is how her life ended, and I have a genuine pit of stomach sadness that she felt this was her only option. But I think when things like this happen it’s too easy to look for someone to blame. It’s the same with the previous Love Island deaths —tragic and all as they were, clearly issues were already at play there. Reports claim she had slit her wrists the night she was charged with assault, so its clear that perhaps she was on some kind of downward spiral. It’s just incredibly sad that this is how it ended. I say this as someone who was never much of a fan, but I’m genuinely sad today to hear this news. She always came across as someone who seemed so young at heart with a lively spirit.

People shouldn’t have to caveat or punctuate every single post with how tragic and sad this is. Surely that’s a given? Whatever your personal feelings on the girl you’d want to be an absolute gowl of the highest order not to think it was all desperately sad.
But I’ll await another passive aggressive reply.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 18-02-2020 01:04PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Amen to that! Sadly, some conditions lend themselves to a constant craving for attention and approval. All you have to do is look at the type of individuals who put themselves forward for reality TV. They are the last people who should be there but make 'good tv' so are chosen to up the ratings . It's all pretty grim

Caroline Flacks Twitter header reads 'Normal is the cruelest of all insults'.

Media presence for certain people who want to feel special, unique, loved........ it's a double edged sword that can quickly turn from fawning fans to insults and critique.

Social media has been proven to elevate narcissism and attention seeking personalities. There's so many now that they have inadvertently become mainstream, the new normal.

I do think its terrible that whatever Caroline Flacks issues were that she felt there was only one way out.

She seemed to have good family and friends supporting her but public opinion appeared to mean a lot to her as well.

Sad that she thought there was no other way and I hope her family and friends can pull through.

SusieBlue · 18-02-2020 01:05PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You actually don't know anything for sure. She may very well have been "evil". It is such a riddiculious thing to call people as it is completely subjective.
We don't know if she committed suicide over guilt, scrutiny or fears of more information coming out.

Compare what happened to John Lesslie. He lost his job and was found innocent. Now try Meline Sky. She was convicted of spousal abuse yet presents a show on BBC 2. The outcome for Flock was always going to be less than that of a man. If John Lesslie killed himself before his trial I very much doubt there would be such support for him.

Chris Brown is still enjoying a very lucrative, successful career despite battering Rihanna.

R Kelly's career peaked around the time he married a 15yr old child, despite the obvious pedophelia and rumours he had been physically & emotionally abusive to her. It was years later before his past caught up with him and questions were asked.

Stop trying to make it into a gender war.

Caroline Flack found dead

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