Caroline Flack found dead

Hannibal_Smith · 17-02-2020 02:47PM

retro:electro wrote: »

This is what I feel too. Everything I’ve read so far suggests it was the thoughts of the impending trial and the consequences of that that she could not cope with. She took her life hours after learning her trial would be going ahead and that body cam footage taken that night will be used against her. To me that suggests she was overwhelmed with the thoughts of the trial, was in a state of panic and anxiety and catastrophizing. If the charges had been dropped on Friday evening then it’s extremely likely that she would still be alive right now.

Her team didn’t even mention trolls, press intrusion or anything of the sort in their statement released. They focused solely on the pressure of the impending trial and slammed the CPS for pursuing with the charges. It’s every other idiot across social media who has taken it upon themselves to declare Caroline’s cause of death as trolling and used it as opportunity to write self serving, shallow platitudes about themselves and rage war on anyone who has ever said something critical about someone in the past when it’s a fight that not even her friends and family seem to be fighting right now.

Sure I dont know why they were bothering with a trial. You seem it have it all sown up. You even know why she killed herself.

Laura99 · 17-02-2020 02:48PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

Except there isn't footage of what went down. Why would the police be there before the actual thing happened? There's footage of a messy bedroom with blood on the sheets - her blood, according to him - and that's it.

And to say it's irrelevant if the scale of the attack was exaggerated is absolutely stunning. She isn't being judged and condemned by merely attacking her boyfriend. She's being judged and condemned by the idea that she took a lamp, while he was asleep, and split his head open with it. You don't think it changes the complexion if that isn't true?

She apparently admitted she had done on the body cam footage. CPS must have had further evidence other than just his claims on the night, because he had recanted and I'm sure would testify to this in court too. It's very common for DV victims to recant, which is why cps go ahead with charges without them if the evidence is there.

It's all very sad, a lot more complex than just this situation.

retro:electro · 17-02-2020 02:49PM

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes because after nearly 20 years on TV she should definitely be defined by this isolated domestic incident that you know nothing about except what you read from the parasitic tabloids. By all accounts this 'incident' had a huge detrimental effect on her and sadly led to this outcome.

Not to worry small time mealy mouthed Parish gossipers like you would make sure to remind her at every opportunity whispering behind your hand at Mass.

You really are bitter spiteful piece of work.

Do you even see the hypocrisy in what you’ve written here? You start by insisting we don’t judge someone based on one unfortunate night of their lives and then sign off by labelling this poster a bitter and spiteful piece of work because of one comment on a forum.

1800_Ladladlad · 17-02-2020 02:50PM

The way she went was sad. I didn't follow her by any means but I knew of her and the kind of person she was. I was surprised to hear of her alleged assault maybe I was beguiled. Seems a few want to ignore the truth that everyone is capable of violence and in this case, it was someone they least expected it to be. The eternal punishment did not match the alleged crime, we are the biggest judges of ourselves and the judgment she placed on herself sadly justified her decision at the time.

When a famous person takes their own life or who has mental health issues, I get uncomfortably irritated because of the type of people who put their Google degree in psychology into practice online. The feigned sorrow and the “I feel the need” statements of awareness and sentiments heard again and again. Im sure its been said here many times. Alot of it has to be for likes or attention to top up their self-esteem.

SusieBlue · 17-02-2020 02:51PM

vixdname wrote: »

Lets cut the bull and call a spade a spade.

This girl was mainly famous for her time on Love Island.

She, out of a rage, one night, picked up a lamp, and broke it across the skull of her boyfriend who was asleep in their bed.

An ex of hers, upon hearing about this said he wasnt surprised about this action at all, suggesting that she had a streak in her to commit violence when annoyed.

Because she was famous, and lived well financially from such fame, she attracted the attention of the media who reported it to the public.

Most of the public who were bothered about this issue claimed it was wrong of her to be violent to her partner and were against domestic abuse of any sort, irrespective of genders involved.

The girl herself obviously didnt like falling from the public pedestal she enjoyed before this assault on her boyfriend became public knowledge and she couldnt handle the pressure and fall from grace.

The girl may have had pre existing mental health issues which compounded the issues she was facing and unfortunately she decided the best way around it all was to end her own life.

Anyone, irrespective of fame or financial worth, who thinks the only way out of their problems is by committing suicide deserves help and understanding and its unfortunate that there wasnt enough of either to help her out of this predicament.

On the other hand, she was a violent individual who could have killed her partner due to her actions that night and she, like any one else that violently assaults their partners, deserved the backlash she got from the public or friends, violence female to female, male to male or female to male or male to female are all equally wrong and should not be seen in different lights.

She was wrong, she couldnt handle the backlash and because of her mental fragility ended up tragically taking her own life.

No she wasn't, she also presented X Factor, I'm a Celebrity and & featured on Strictly Come Dancing.
Love Island has little to do with either the incident or her suicide so I'm baffled as to why people keep making the connection.

Most of your post is pure conjecture & speculation, we can't call a spade a spade when the case hadn't even gone to court yet and the true context of what happened is still unknown.
All the "facts" in your post were widely reported in the same gutter press that has form for sensationalising, exaggerating, and telling downright lies.
She hadn't been convicted of anything yet you seem to have it all squared off and figured out.

retro:electro · 17-02-2020 02:52PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Sure I dont know why they were bothering with a trial. You seem it have it all sown up. You even know why she killed herself.

I have?, where do you see where I’ve said why she killed herself? I’ve speculated on possible reasons based on reports, as has everyone else on this forum. In actual fact the ones who have summed up her cause of death is people on social media blaming trolls and what have you despite the fact her family and team have heavily implied she couldn’t cope with the pressure of the impending trial, but sure don’t let that get in the way of your passive aggressive dig.

Tork · 17-02-2020 02:55PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

His version of events is of paramount importance because he's the only living person who can tell the story

That's assuming he's going to tell the truth. Victims of domestic abuse have been known to backtrack on their original stories, even though the incidents actually happened. I mentioned earlier in this thread a woman who was badly beaten up in public by her partner changing her story the next day and refusing to press charges. The consequences of this assault charge going ahead were enormous. It's possible that he tried to stop them pressing charges because of what it would do to his girlfriend and her career. For these reasons, I don't place any great value in him changing his story after the event. The police saw enough here to lead to charges. And why were the two of them ordered to stay away from each other if this was just a silly handbags sort of situation?

Because she's now dead, Lewis can say what he wants about that night and drive the narrative. He lives in the world of social media and wouldn't know what to do with himself if that was taken away from him.

partyguinness · 17-02-2020 02:59PM

retro:electro wrote: »

Do you even see the hypocrisy in what you’ve written here? You start by insisting we don’t judge someone based on one unfortunate night of their lives and then sign off by labelling this poster a bitter and spiteful piece of work because of one comment on a forum.

No this is also based on other comments on other threads- I just didn't bother referencing those comments.

It would be a rather huge leap to jump to that conclusion based on one comment.

partyguinness · 17-02-2020 03:05PM

Tork wrote: »

That's assuming he's going to tell the truth. Victims of domestic abuse have been known to backtrack on their original stories, even though the incidents actually happened. I mentioned earlier in this thread a woman who was badly beaten up in public by her partner changing her story the next day and refusing to press charges. The consequences of this assault charge going ahead were enormous. It's possible that he tried to stop them pressing charges because of what it would do to his girlfriend and her career. For these reasons, I don't place any great value in him changing his story after the event. The police saw enough here to lead to charges. And why were the two of them ordered to stay away from each other if this was just a silly handbags sort of situation?

Because she's now dead, Lewis can say what he wants about that night and drive the narrative. He lives in the world of social media and wouldn't know what to do with himself if that was taken away from him.

Domestic violence is never black and white. It isn't as straight forward case of "Girl/guy hits partner. Assault- charged- convicted. End of"

Domestic violence is complicated and multi faceted with all sorts of emotional implications that you do not get from say, a brawl outside a nightclub.

Dots1982 · 17-02-2020 03:06PM

If you think a 31 year old woman shouldn’t ever find a 17 year old boy attractive than that’s fine but just know that this is your own morality speaking. It’s not something anyone else needs to respect or place any heed in.

For me morality never comes into anything unless the situation directly involves myself. Judging people I’ve never met and don’t know by my own morality is a pointless exercise as you don’t know anything of what they’ve being through in life.

I stick to legal certainties and leave morality out of the equation as you can find yourself a hypocrite very quickly if you place trust in morality.

retro:electro · 17-02-2020 03:07PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

You've just accidentally hit the nail on the head. Both were probably in the throes of hysterics, yeah, so if you Retro:Electro say something in the throes of hysterics and later, with a bit more clarity and sobriety, decide it wasn't true, are you back-tracking to protect an abuser or were you just hysterical and hyperbolic in the first f*cking place? His version of events is of paramount importance because he's the only living person who can tell the story. And if he says something isn't true, and you say it is, then that makes you a very silly goose.

The point I’m making and the one you continually seem to be missing is that it does not matter what he decides to say the next day if the footage shows the immediate aftermath of an obvious attack, and apparently she admitted on the footage that she “whacked him over the head”. The reason police wear this body cam footage when called to domestic incidents is for these very reasons, where the next day the victim will play down what happened and say it was all a bit of nothing and just an exaggeration. In these types of situations people need to be protected from themselves.

If there was clear evidence that an attack took place then they are duty bound to press charges, what don’t you understand about that? And now the CPS are being attacked and blamed by people who don’t seem to understand that this is the process of the law. I’m getting tired of making the same point over and over to you so I’m just not going to reply to you anymore.

Tork · 17-02-2020 03:10PM

partyguinness wrote: »

Domestic violence is never black and white. It isn't as straight forward case of "Girl/guy hits partner. Assault- charged- convicted. End of"

Domestic violence is complicated and multi faceted with all sorts of emotional implications that you do not get from say, a brawl outside a nightclub.

Just to clarify. This was not a random brawl outside a nightclub. This woman was beaten up (quite badly) by her own partner in a public place. In other words, there were witnesses to their domestic and it's irrefutable what happened. But still, she changed her story and refused to press charges.

Heat_Wave · 17-02-2020 03:11PM

Ironicname wrote: »

That depends on where you draw the line. Should I be able to say I hate leo varadkar or is that abuse too?

“Hate”?? Why on earth would you be posting “I hate Leo Varadkar” online. What good will come from this? This isn’t even constructive.

You’d be better off saying you disagree with his ways of working etc. as opposed to saying you hate him.

And yes, this is abuse and shouldn’t be allowed. If he was your son/brother/father/partner, I am 100% certain you would not be saying that it’s okay for others to say they “hate” him online.

AryaStark · 17-02-2020 03:14PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you think a 31 year old woman shouldn’t ever find a 17 year old boy attractive than that’s fine but just know that this is your own morality speaking. It’s not something anyone else needs to respect or place any heed in.

For me morality never comes into anything unless the situation directly involves myself. Judging people I’ve never met and don’t know by my own morality is a pointless exercise as you don’t know anything of what they’ve being through in life.

I stick to legal certainties and leave morality out of the equation as you can find yourself a hypocrite very quickly if you place trust in morality.

Exactly. I am here expressing my opinion and using my own moral guide to come to the conclusions. I can't assure you that I won't ever sleep with a young boy!

I can't think of any reason or way that I would find it ok for a 31 year old man to have sex with a 17 year old girl or a 31 year old woman to have sex with a 17 year old boy.

My opinion is important to me and I don't understand why you or anyone have such an issue with me stating my opinion. It doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for her family or friends.... and I think it is horrible that she felt so alone and desperate and ended her life.

partyguinness · 17-02-2020 03:15PM

Tork wrote: »

Just to clarify. This was not a random brawl outside a nightclub. This woman was beaten up (quite badly) by her own partner in a public place. In other words, there were witnesses to their domestic and it's irrefutable what happened. But still, she changed her story and refused to press charges.

No sorry. I was making a general point about domestic violence and not a comment about the lady you mentioned. But having said that the fact she changed her story etc is typical of the type of complexity within relationship s that makes it very grey.

Dots1982 · 17-02-2020 03:17PM

AryaStark wrote: »

Exactly. I am here expressing my opinion and using my own moral guide to come to the conclusions. I can't assure you that I won't ever sleep with a young boy!

I can't think of any reason or way that I would find it ok for a 31 year old man to have sex with a 17 year old girl or a 31 year old woman to have sex with a 17 year old boy.

My opinion is important to me and I don't understand why you or anyone have such an issue with me stating my opinion. It doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for her family or friends.... and I think it is horrible that she felt so alone and desperate and ended her life.

If you had a brother or sister or a daughter or son in their 30s who was in a relationship with a 17 year old how would you treat the situation?

Keyzer · 17-02-2020 03:17PM

kylith wrote: »

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but frankly she reminds me of that asshole who murdered Clodagh Hawe and her children.

Just spotted this, mind boggling stuff...

TheBoyConor · 17-02-2020 03:18PM

Another Katy French.

AryaStark · 17-02-2020 03:20PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you had a brother or sister or a daughter or son in their 30s who was in a relationship with a 17 year old how would you treat the situation?

I would tell them exactly what I think which is that it is very wrong and I would ask them to explain... I do not and will never understand how a mature woman can find a young boy sexually attractive.

And if I had a son or brother who was 17 and brought home a 31 year old woman I would let her know how unwelcome she was around me. I would not be shy about letting her know how sick I found it- and I would not be comfortable around the situation.

partyguinness · 17-02-2020 03:25PM

kylith wrote: »

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but frankly she reminds me of that asshole who murdered Clodagh Hawe and her children.

You have nothing to worry about as that is not an opinion.

So that guy who murdered his wife and kids is comparable to Caroline Flack somehow....what am I missing here?

It is just plain stupidity. I can think of far better words to use to describe that post but it would result in a ban...go away and have lie down for yourself.

Hannibal_Smith · 17-02-2020 03:27PM

retro:electro wrote: »

She didn’t die because people were mean to her on social media. She apparently did a horrible thing and couldn’t cope with what the outcome was going to be.

^^^ There's where you said why she died.

retro:electro wrote: »

I have, where do you see where I’ve said why she killed herself? I’ve speculated on possible reasons based on reports, as has everyone else on this forum. In actual fact the ones who have summed up her cause of death is people on social media blaming trolls and what have you despite the fact her family and team have heavily implied she couldn’t cope with the pressure of the impending trial, but sure don’t let that get in the way of your passive aggressive dig.

What reports have you read? Because the only reports that couldhave been made were those after the first court appearance and all the reports say the same thing.

Her family havent said anything about why she died? Theyve asked for privacy. Do you not think a vulnerable person would be affected by the level of online abuse and tabloid scrutiny she endured?

The fact that youve called my comment a passive aggressive dig, is ironic. Im not even being mean and you didn't like it. Imagine enduring what Caroline did!

MayoAreMagic · 17-02-2020 03:30PM

AryaStark wrote: »

I would tell them exactly what I think which is that it is very wrong and I would ask them to explain... I do not and will never understand how a mature woman can find a young boy sexually attractive.

And if I had a son or brother who was 17 and brought home a 31 year old woman I would let her know how unwelcome she was around me. I would not be shy about letting her know how sick I found it- and I would not be comfortable around the situation.

The reality is she or anyone else was entitled to do so if they do wished, what your feel personally about it doesnt really matter in that regard. Differemt cultures feel differently about it, im sure both feel they are right.

Im curious as to the media coverage her domestic issue received. People are saying she got a very rough time over it, but I dont recall it being out of the ordinary tbh. It was always going to get coverage, but I have often seen worse levels of intrusion...

jimwallace197 · 17-02-2020 03:31PM

The saddest thing about all of this is that she felt it was necessary to take her life because of a domestic violence incident and this being more than likely her first offence & the fact she was a female would have more than likely only resulted in a restraining order and suspended sentence, max.

People place too much importance in what other people think of them and their public persona these days, usually people without much substance underneath tend to be like this.

It's sad that she felt the need to take her life, but in a way, this shines more of a light on female domestic abuse on males in relationships which is alot more prevalent that people realize and the pitfalls men face as a result of this. Fight back, go to prison, dont do anything, potentially die or incur a serious injury, call the police, unlikely to be taken seriously anyway unless like in this case she used a weapon to injure him and admitted the assualt at the scene. No win situation and its a serious issue at the moment.

Raconteuse · 17-02-2020 03:32PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

If you think a 31 year old woman shouldn’t ever find a 17 year old boy attractive

Who said someone shouldn't find someone attractive?

People said it was weird or inappropriate for them to be in a relationship with each other but where did anyone say she shouldn't find him attractive?

For me morality never comes into anything unless the situation directly involves myself. Judging people I’ve never met and don’t know by my own morality is a pointless exercise as you don’t know anything of what they’ve being through in life.

I stick to legal certainties and leave morality out of the equation as you can find yourself a hypocrite very quickly if you place trust in morality.

I don't buy when people say they don't judge. We all judge in certain contexts. And surely you have a moral compass when it comes to abuse and murder, even though they don't affect you when it's others involved.

Expressing opinion on a well known person's life which they have volunteered to the public is perfectly standard. Harassment is of course not. I just think it's strange to fancy and go out with a baby faced teen boy when you're over 30 but I'm not stopping anyone, and just giving my opinion.

Raconteuse · 17-02-2020 03:37PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Where does this hate come from? What's wrong with you?

It's just something said for the sake of it. No meaning to it.

Dots1982 · 17-02-2020 03:39PM

Raconteuse wrote: »

Who said someone shouldn't find someone attractive?

People said it was weird or inappropriate for them to be in a relationship with each other but where did anyone say she shouldn't find him attractive?

I don't buy when people say they don't judge. We all judge in certain contexts. And surely you have a moral compass when it comes to abuse and murder, even though they don't affect you when it's others involved.

Expressing opinion on a well known person's life which they have volunteered to the public is perfectly standard. Harassment is of course not. I just think it's strange to fancy and go out with a baby faced teen boy when you're over 30 but I'm not stopping anyone, and just giving my opinion.

Aryastark said she can’t understand how a 31 year old can be attracted to a 17 year old.

Of course I judge people guilty of abuse and murder; they are illegal. I don’t bring morality into it when it’s legal and it’s people I don’t know.

retro:electro · 17-02-2020 03:43PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

^^^ There's where you said why she died.

Her team released a statement slamming the CPS for pursuing a “show trial” and heavily implied that she couldn’t cope with the pressure of an the impending case. Have you even read their statement? Nowhere does it mention online trolls or mean comments, yet that hasn’t stopped hundreds of thousands stating a campaign of kindness across social media, as if people being mean to her is what caused her to kill herself. Where are people getting this from? Now I’m sure if she was getting abuse it certainly didn’t help, but I haven’t seen any evidence of this trolling. I’ve seen comments criticising her for apparently doing something awful, that’s not the same as trolling.

It is they who you should be targeting with your passive aggressive know it all comment, not me, as they seem to know exactly why she did what she did.

Her team have said she couldn’t cope with the pressure, they slammed the CPS and she tragically took her own life hours after being made aware that body cam footage would be used against her. So yes, it’s more reasonable to deduce that it was the pressure of the trial and the anxieties around that which was a major factor. Again, pure speculation on my part and none of us will know for sure until there is an inquest.

I realise now my original comment you quoted doesn’t read well so I will edit now accordingly.

Millicently · 17-02-2020 03:48PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Aryastark said she can’t understand how a 31 year old can be attracted to a 17 year old.

Of course I judge people guilty of abuse and murder; they are illegal. I don’t bring morality into it when it’s legal and it’s people I don’t know.

Of course a 31 year old can be attracted to a 17 year old but that doesn't mean they should have sex with them. It was creepy, plain and simple and if it were a man who was doing it people would call them out on being a bit of a pervert. The woman clearly wasn't right in the head on a number of issues. I watched her on Kathy Burkes show All Woman and she was clearly not right. Then again the whole show business/entertainment industry is full of people who aren't entirely sane.

She was part of the media, she was happy to go ahead and present Love Island even though 2 people who'd been on the show and a third connected to someone who'd been on the show committed suicide. She was no saint, she made a stupid decision and couldn't handle the consequences of her actions, all very sad but the only person to blame is herself. Her family must be devastated and I doubt that they need her management company attacking the CPS and questioning the law implying that her gender/mental health issues/celebrity should have made her exempt from prosecution. The vile nasty abusive stuff on Social Media has to stop, people should have to provide their real names to open an account and not be able to hide behind aliases.

Dots1982 · 17-02-2020 03:53PM

Millicently wrote: »

Of course a 31 year old can be attracted to a 17 year old

I’m not the one arguing that they can’t understand it

MayoAreMagic · 17-02-2020 03:59PM

jimwallace197 wrote: »

The saddest thing about all of this is that she felt it was necessary to take her life because of a domestic violence incident and this being more than likely her first offence & the fact she was a female would have more than likely only resulted in a restraining order and suspended sentence, max.

Is that truely the case though? Id say it is a bit naive to think that every single thing that has taken place in her life, or even this relationship was played out in that one incident as reported by media.
Its probably more likely that there were other incidents and the guy followed through on threats to call police on this occasion.

Personally I feel she was someone who just wasnt equipped for fame, rather than getting any particularly harsh treatment that was worse than treatment other celebrities received.
It also should be pointed out that while facing the gaze of the ireland and GB public for a while must be a rough experience, there are much harsher hardships out there that people live with. I dont believe she was driven to take her own life. I think it was the actions of someone who needed professional help.
That is why these celeb friends of hers who are now posting constant tearful odes to her are something I find quite hard to swallow. If they were actually her friends they would have been spending enough time with her to see that she needed help and would have helped her get it.
The blonde irish one that took her job really takes the biscuit for me. Her name escapes me at present, but basically this long tearful spiel about her 'vivacious' friend. Your friend whose job you had whipped away from her in about 15 minutes you mean? Ffs like.
To my mind all she is thinking throughout that spiel is 'my career my career my career'

Caroline Flack found dead

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