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What have we come to

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  • #2132
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,283 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What have we come to? You might ask that again this evening.
    The same broad cross section of social media that told me something seismic was going to happen in the election ain't reacting well to Leo's huff and departure to opposition.
    Cullinane got some flak but it has largely died down now. Leo managing to get the attention on himself again.


  • #2133
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    shesty wrote: »
    There was an article written a couple of weeks ago and this was one of the things discussed...I don't always agree with Dan O'Brien, but what he said made good sense in this one (before the election). The text around the election of a leader was as follows:

    "Yet another illustration of how different Sinn Féin is, is its leadership and how it is chosen. Democratic political parties tend towards internal chaos. Rivalries abound when a lot of ambitious people with different views on policies and presentation come together. Well developed egos clash. Nowhere is all this more in evidence than when party leadership positions become vacant.

    It was far from evident when Gerry Adams stood down as Sinn Féin leader two years ago. A normal democratic party would have had multiple candidates throwing their hats in the ring, particularly as it had been 35 years since the last change of leadership. Only one candidate emerged. Again, there are no parallels in democratic Europe of a party being led - unchallenged - for a third of a century and a new leader being elected without a contest."

    The rest of the article is here, for anyone interested:

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/greatest-threat-posed-by-sinn-fein-isnt-to-the-economy-its-to-our-democratic-fabric-38931659.html

    O'Brien makes valid points but clearly at this point the electorate is not bothered by these finer points. They may rear their ugly head if SF is in Government and they are making a balls of it and popular opinion begins to turn against them. If SF make a success of being in government then the finer points will only be of interest to those who were already anti SF.

    Bear in mind also that the Independent Newspaper would be known for being an anti SF paper. Which of course is their right but clearly influences their commentary on SF.


  • #2134
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Cupatae wrote: »
    That was a fairly vulture like radio interview , regardless of what someone does..having a free for all on a radio show is Abit tasteless

    Didnt listen to it. Not interested.


  • #2135
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What have we come to? You might ask that again this evening.
    The same broad cross section of social media that told me something seismic was going to happen in the election ain't reacting well to Leo's huff and departure to opposition.
    Cullinane got some flak but it has largely died down now. Leo managing to get the attention on himself again.

    Leo was never going to go into government with SF so what else was he to do? He had to come out and in this instance restate his held position of no coalition with SF. The question for Leo is, is it tenable for him to remain as FG leader. As for Cullinane his credibility may have been compromised. Time will tell.


  • #2136
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,283 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    I don't but you seem to gloss over all these issues with ah kind of ah sure SF will be SF as if it is expected. You give them loads of leeway.

    Catheine Noone's serious political career ended when she called Leo Vaadkar autistic, and then said it is all about context people talk about n!ggers.

    When O'Snodaigh of SF called Alan Shatter - Goebells it only seemed to enhance his!

    When Culliane and Ellis were making eejits of themselves with the 'up the ra' and get out you black and tans not a single reprimand from Mary Lou.
    All we got is I am not thier mammy!

    I am sure many SF supporters are having a great laugh over it.

    It is true Paddy Holohan was 'suspended' from the party.
    But only because I feel what he said about women upset Mary Lou personally. Plus it did the women's SF vote no harm by seeming to take action.

    I voted for SF for the first time in a GE because I have satisfied myself that the IRA is gone and that it has no influence on them. It is an historic organisation.

    If you know different you shouldn't, firstly vote for them and secondly , go to the relevant authorities with the info you have assembled.


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  • #2137
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Not true I am well aware of the fella he is exactly what is wrong with the culture of SF.



    SF have done so much things way wrong it hard to keep track of them all.
    Most people forget them and they blow over. Most would be career ending stuff for normal politicians. But on the SF scale it ends up enhancing thier image. Paddy Holohan is the rare exception. Where it became indefensible.



    Nobody agrees with all the policies of a party there are always some that are tweaked or amended.

    Lots of them in SF's case changed overtime -

    From when they were the equivalent of today's dissidents
    To now power sharing with the DUP and entering the dail.

    The whole 'culture' of SF stinks from top to bottom in my view and they need a root and branch cleanout.

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:p84SQzxKYksJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

    But it is SF 'policy' to not only keep such people but have them run for election!

    I would call it he 'gouger quota'. In SF it is definitely much higher than any other party in the dail.

    I can't take you seriously.
    I hope you come to terms with the loss.


  • #2138
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,448 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Varadkar must be ****ting it! If anyone actually does anything in the next government, it will be more than he has done in nine years!


  • #2139
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,370 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    holyhead wrote: »
    O'Brien makes valid points but clearly at this point the electorate is not bothered by these finer points. They may rear their ugly head if SF is in Government and they are making a balls of it and popular opinion begins to turn against them. If SF make a success of being in government then the finer points will only be of interest to those who were already anti SF.

    Bear in mind also that the Independent Newspaper would be known for being an anti SF paper. Which of course is their right but clearly influences their commentary on SF.

    Yeah what it will take is something SF does to upset the youth vote. A misguided throwaway comment about mental health or something of the like.

    High chance of it happening Mary Lou can't muzzle all the eejits

    Plus if dissent republicanism gets serious it could really damage SF among the new young vote in the ROI. As many would see SF placed in a difficult position of careful words. Plus the younger new SF vote in the ROI will not be used of that craic.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • #2140
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,283 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    holyhead wrote: »
    Leo was never going to go into government with SF so what else was he to do? He had to come out and in this instance restate his held position of no coalition with SF. The question for Leo is, is it tenable for him to remain as FG leader. As for Cullinane his credibility may have been compromised. Time will tell.

    Leo could have stayed quiet, like M. Martin and let the situation play out.


  • #2141
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Varadkar must be ****ting it! If anyone actually does anything in the next government, it will be more than he has done in nine years!

    He was Taoiseach 3 years.

    You are obsessed with Leo Varadkar.

    Its weird and scary.

    He's gone, can you not get over it?


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  • #2142
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I voted for SF for the first time in a GE because I have satisfied myself that the IRA is gone and that it has no influence on them. It is an historic organisation.

    If you know different you shouldn't, firstly vote for them and secondly , go to the relevant authorities with the info you have assembled.

    Going to the police about IRA activity can get you disappeared :p

    If you think the IRA/Gerry Adams has no influence on the SF then you probably believe GA was never in the IRA!


  • #2143
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,448 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    He was Taoiseach 3 years.

    You are obsessed with Leo Varadkar.

    Its weird and scary.

    He's gone, can you not get over it?

    he's not gone, he's still FG leader...


  • #2144
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    He was Taoiseach 3 years.

    You are obsessed with Leo Varadkar.

    Its weird and scary.

    He's gone, can you not get over it?

    Nope, less than 3 years and out of government with less TDs than June 2017. Out polled by a Shinner. 5th count before he was deemed elected. Can't remember any other sitting Taoiseach failing to get elected on the first count.


  • #2145
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,283 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    holyhead wrote: »
    Going to the police about IRA activity can get you disappeared :p

    If you think the IRA/Gerry Adams has no influence on the SF then you probably believe GA was never in the IRA!

    Whatever influence Gerry has is certainly working. Biggest party in the country now.

    They should make him Leader.


    Oh wait!


  • #2146
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Whatever influence Gerry has is certainly working. Biggest party in the country now.

    They should make him Leader.


    Oh wait!

    The lack of a leadership contest within SF is puzzling. All democratic parties have had elections for their leadership position. I don't think SF would have gotten their vote if GA was the official leader. I do think however he is still hugely influential in SF if not the covert leader with Mary Lou as a respectable front.


  • #2147
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    he's not gone, he's still FG leader...

    Leader yes but I think his days are numbered. It's just not plausible to have a party leader who barely makes it in and having been a Taoiseach. I expect Coveney to be the new leader within a year either through Varadkar stepping down or Coveney testing the water.


  • #2148
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,283 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    holyhead wrote: »
    The lack of a leadership contest within SF is puzzling. All democratic parties have had elections for their leadership position. I don't think SF would have gotten their vote if GA was the official leader. I do think however he is still hugely influential in SF if not the covert leader with Mary Lou as a respectable front.

    Well you have found a reason not to vote for them?


    Seriously folks. This is jump the shark territory now. 'I think..., therefore it is so'.


  • #2149
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Well you have found a reason not to vote for them?


    Seriously folks. This is jump the shark territory now. 'I think..., therefore it is so'.

    Francie you voted for SF. Good for you. That doesn't mean that they are immune from reasonable observations. I'm not looking to vote or not vote for Sinn Fein. However they are going to be open to scrutiny which is what happens when you pursue and in their case secure votes in an election.


  • #2150
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    What are the circumstances in the Good Friday Agreement which would permit a poll on reunification? Whilst I don't think it influenced SF's vote in the Republic it is certainly a major plank of their policies.


  • #2151
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    I'm not able to share the link but it is worth reading a blog my Shane Paul O'Doherty entitled "Mary Lou MacDonald-No Links To The Ira?". If you punch it into google it will come up as the first link to click on.
    Very interesting reading. I appreciate that O'Doherty is very much anti SF having once been in the IRA. But having been on the inside he has a better idea than most how SF/IRA operate.


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  • #2152
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,283 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    holyhead wrote: »
    Francie you voted for SF. Good for you. That doesn't mean that they are immune from reasonable observations. I'm not looking to vote or not vote for Sinn Fein. However they are going to be open to scrutiny which is what happens when you pursue and in their case secure votes in an election.

    :):) Is there a party in these islands that has been scrutinised more than SF??


  • #2153
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    :):) Is there a party in these islands that has been scrutinised more than SF??

    None more secretive ;)


  • #2154
    Die Hard 2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Die Hard 2019


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    :):) Is there a party in these islands that has been scrutinised more than SF??

    Do you believe that Sinn Fein politicians support the IRA and refer to us as "the free state " (by us I mean people from the 26 counties that had the election we are discussing)


  • #2155
    Higgins5473
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    holyhead wrote: »
    None more secretive ;)

    Really? Tri colours aloft, come out you black and tans being sung and elected TD's celebrating publicly the armed struggle...I don't think there is a more transparent party around no matter what your thoughts on them are.


  • #2156
    Cupatae
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Cupatae


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    :):) Is there a party in these islands that has been scrutinised more than SF??

    They are gonna get alot more of it, as a matter of fact I think them getting into power will be a poisoned chalice, this could blow up very badly.. there's alot riding on this one and if they don't get it spot on it could write them off.


  • #2157
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Higgins5473 wrote: »
    Really? Tri colours aloft, come out you black and tans being sung and elected TD's celebrating publicly the armed struggle...I don't think there is a more transparent party around no matter what your thoughts on them are.

    Tell me then what process was undergone whereby Mary Lou became leader? The same Mary Lou who insisted we had to have a contest to elect our next President.


  • #2158
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,283 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    holyhead wrote: »
    None more secretive ;)

    There was a SF member on here who explained the whole leadership choice process. Basically it is led from the Cumann's. Can't remember the details but, while it was a different way of doing it, it didn't sound undemocratic to me.

    BTW I am glad Adams and MMcG stayed as long as they did. The GFA would never have happened or survived had they not.
    People think it all ended when the document was signed...that was actually only the beginning.
    Nobody else could have kept very different and untrusting people onside, only that pair IMO.


  • #2159
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,012 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    holyhead wrote: »
    The lack of a leadership contest within SF is puzzling. All democratic parties have had elections for their leadership position. I don't think SF would have gotten their vote if GA was the official leader. I do think however he is still hugely influential in SF if not the covert leader with Mary Lou as a respectable front.

    Didn't work out for Simon Coveney. Voted leader only for the shadowy figures in polo shirts to put Varadkar in place. Still, worked out well...


  • #2160
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There was a SF member on here who explained the whole leadership choice process. Basically it is led from the Cumann's. Can't remember the details but, while it was a different way of doing it, it didn't sound undemocratic to me.

    BTW I am glad Adams and MMcG stayed as long as they did. The GFA would never have happened or survived had they not.
    People think it all ended when the document was signed...that was actually only the beginning.
    Nobody else could have kept very different and untrusting people onside, only that pair IMO.

    The problem is most of the public don't know how she was elected which is weird in a democracy. I do agree that the GFA was a good thing. I am happy their is peace in N.I. and long may it continue.


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  • #2161
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Didn't work out for Simon Coveney. Voted leader only for the shadowy figures in polo shirts to put Varadkar in place. Still, worked out well...

    Your post makes absolutely no sense to me!


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