What have we come to

storker · 12-02-2020 02:51PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Owning property is by very definition wealth. The world over property is where wealth is contained so to tax it makes sense. I've never heard of any "left" party wanting to abolish what is a wealth tax.

I've never understood that either. Only income, profits or purchases should be taxed.

FrancieBrady · 12-02-2020 02:52PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You are being deliberately disingenuous to that poster as you were to me.

Many people vote in terms of collation Labour FF etc.

Just as many who voted SF wanted FF/FG out and hoped for a left alliance and Green surge.

You vote for a party and give them permission to form/go into a coalition.

You DON'T and CAN'T vote for a specific coalition. Don't be ridiculous.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 02:55PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But you don't know that. You are guessing. From a rather condescending position if I may say so.

'The young are stupid and uneducated...unlike me hence I am going to go on a crusade to educate them.

Which flies in the face of the fact that every media organ of this state published details of the past in the lead up to the election.

And the electorate said?...well you don't need me to tell you what they said.

I am not guessing I know what the hardcore base SF stereotype vote is

Much as I know the new SF votes reasons - they took a chance on them for the craic, used it as a protest vote, or are just too young to remember as much as others.

You are in the take a chance on them category.

And most of this new battle ground was fought on social media to impressionable young minds. An area where SF are years ahead of the other traditional parties.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 02:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You vote for a party and give them permission to form/go into a coalition.

You DON'T and CAN'T vote for a specific coalition. Don't be ridiculous.

Well I voted labour and FG because they said they would NOT go into coalition with SF. If they said they would I would have looked elsewhere.

In Irish politics most people know there is likely to be a coalition of one description or another. Some vote accordingly as I did.

I fail to see how this is so hard for you to believe.

Idbatterim · 12-02-2020 03:01PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All SF can do here is to try and form another alternative. They cannot force others to go into government with them.
They seemed to me to be straight out of the traps to investigate the potential.

Leo, is 'expecting to be/wanting to be the main opposition. Without even trying to fulfill the wish of the 22% who voted FG.

that prize prick varadkar, only got re-elected by the skin of his teeth. time to go, he can go do those private speeches, for tens of thousands an hour, he can tell them all, how he managed to lose power in a country , during a boom, with mostly laughable alternatives.

gormdubhgorm · 12-02-2020 03:02PM

shesty wrote: »

This is Ireland...up to now, you could make a fair stab on who would up in coalition!!

Yep FG, Labour, Greens SD was my hope - nice mix of centre right and centre left.

Nice balance. No 'yahoo' antics from TD's (hopefully)

That was my ideal mix. No SF or FF.

MrMusician18 · 12-02-2020 03:02PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is nowhere on the ballot paper where you can say 'I vote for a Labour FG Greens and SD coalition.

Silly buggers stuff now.

Nowhere on the ballot paper did it say vote SF for 100k houses either, but a lot of people did vote that way because of that.

Motivations for a vote can be for any reason under the sun. Everyone has the choice to use their vote, and exercise it, realistic expectations or not, as they see fit.

Idbatterim · 12-02-2020 03:03PM

for those of you talking about the markers and sentiment etc, sure should we just reduce their liability to zero? wouldnt that suit them better! LOL!

MrMusician18 · 12-02-2020 03:09PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

that prize prick varadkar, only got re-elected by the skin of his teeth. time to go, he can go do those private speeches, for tens of thousands an hour, he can tell them all, how he managed to lose power in a country , during a boom, with mostly laughable alternatives.

Leo Varadkar was something like 250 votes short of the quota on the first count. His election was never in doubt. Skin of his teath me bollocks.

If you're going to be pig ignorant about someone, at least be right.

FrancieBrady · 12-02-2020 03:11PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Nowhere on the ballot paper did it say vote SF for 100k houses either, but a lot of people did vote that way because of that.

Who said the ballot paper said that?

People voted SF...end of. Unlike gormdubh you cnnot start saying x amount voted for them on the past and x amount voted on them for housing etc etc.

Motivations for a vote can be for any reason under the sun. Everyone has the choice to use their vote, and exercise it, realistic expectations or not, as they see fit.

Yes, that is true.

However, LEO, has decided, that his 22% is 'to go into opposition without even trying to form a government'.

Idbatterim · 12-02-2020 03:12PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Leo Varadkar was something like 250 votes short of the quota on the first count. His election was never in doubt. Skin of his teath me bollocks.

If you're going to be pig ignorant about someone, at least be right.

happy to be corrected if that is the case! Him being possibly the biggest failure of a Taoiseach we have ever had here, is subjective, but for my money, he is!

lets see leo, I have to make a decions, how will I go about that "oh, Ill fly a kite" that will tell me...

FrancieBrady · 12-02-2020 03:14PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not guessing I know what the hardcore base SF stereotype vote is

Much as I know the new SF votes reasons - they took a chance on them for the craic, used it as a protest vote, or are just too young to remember as much as others.

You are in the take a chance on them category.

And most of this new battle ground was fought on social media to impressionable young minds. An area where SF are years ahead of the other traditional parties.

That is just more arrogant denigration of the electorate. Stop it please...accept the vote and don't be embarrassing yourself.

In your favour, you do seem to have stopped with the diatribe. I sense you are coming to terms with it all.

James Brown · 12-02-2020 03:15PM

shesty wrote: »

This is Ireland...up to now, you could make a fair stab on who would up in coalition!!

True. Thankfully We've choices with a chance. Hopefully the days of FF or FG are going.

jimmycrackcorm · 12-02-2020 03:15PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein's tax measures do not add up, so they will have to ditch the carbon tax promise anyway. The cyncial might think that they knew that before the election but promised it anyway.

Once they sit down with the dept of finance Wii will last out the reality of the pensions crisis, they will have to pull back on the pension age promise.
Is imagine they will try to put it off for a year or two but the knock on effects of postponing it will be greater with a quicker increasing of the retirement age.

The magic money tree will become undone very quickly.

We going to see a huge backtracking or negative effects from their unsustainable promises before too long.

Ush1 · 12-02-2020 03:16PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

happy to be corrected if that is the case! Him being possibly the biggest failure of a Taoiseach we have ever had here, is subjective, but for my money, he is!

lets see leo, I have to make a decions, how will I go about that "oh, Ill fly a kite" that will tell me...

People have very short memories.

James Brown · 12-02-2020 03:16PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So do we install a government at the behest of investors, or do we still go the democratic route and let the voters have a say?

We had that and got a two tier crisis riddled nation.

Idbatterim · 12-02-2020 03:16PM

SF if they had run more candidates, would have received over 25% of the td's in the dail, its not like 2% you could brand as loons. they obviously have a diverse enough voter base

James Brown · 12-02-2020 03:26PM

Was reading an article in the Times, just an opinion piece. However BBC's John Simpson was cited as being under the impression Brexit was the big reason we voted the way we did. It was rightly pointed out that the British have little to no knowledge or interest in how it actually is on the ground in Ireland north or south. With the DUP lad calling Varadkar 'the Indian' and Johnson asking why he's not called Murphy like the rest of them. Trade talks should be interesting.

machaseh · 12-02-2020 03:28PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Was reading an article in the Times, just an opinion piece. However BBC's John Simpson was cited as being under the impression Brexit was the big reason we voted the way we did. It was rightly pointed out that the British have little to no knowledge or interest in how it actually is on the ground in Ireland north or south. With the DUP lad calling Varadkar 'the Indian' and Johnson asking why he's not called Murphy like the rest of them. Trade talks should be interesting.

Brexit is definitely not the main reason, but I do think that brexit has awoken some latent irish unification sentiments.

Ush1 · 12-02-2020 03:40PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Was reading an article in the Times, just an opinion piece. However BBC's John Simpson was cited as being under the impression Brexit was the big reason we voted the way we did. It was rightly pointed out that the British have little to no knowledge or interest in how it actually is on the ground in Ireland north or south. With the DUP lad calling Varadkar 'the Indian' and Johnson asking why he's not called Murphy like the rest of them. Trade talks should be interesting.

Didn't a Sinn Fein councillor recently call Varadkar Indian? I think we're more similar to the Brits than we think.

James Brown · 12-02-2020 04:02PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Didn't a Sinn Fein councillor recently call Varadkar Indian? I think we're more similar to the Brits than we think.

He'd likely be Irish and not relevant to the point but a try at a dig at SF, sure why not.

thequarefellow · 12-02-2020 04:06PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

happy to be corrected if that is the case! Him being possibly the biggest failure of a Taoiseach we have ever had here, is subjective, but for my money, he is!

lets see leo, I have to make a decions, how will I go about that "oh, Ill fly a kite" that will tell me...

I'm no Leo fan but come on...

Enda Kenny
Bertie Ahern
Brian Cowan
Albert Reynolds
John Bruton
Jack Lynch

Cupatae · 12-02-2020 04:15PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Didn't a Sinn Fein councillor recently call Varadkar Indian? I think we're more similar to the Brits than we think.

Yeah paddy holihan, he got the boot i think, but then again SF got what they wanted out of him another platform to reach youth, which infairness to em was shrewd.

Cupatae · 12-02-2020 04:16PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

He'd likely be Irish and not relevant to the point but a try at a dig at SF, sure why not.

Do you think theirs any negatives to SF specifically getting in power? or anything bad about the party ?

FrancieBrady · 12-02-2020 04:24PM

Ush1 wrote: »

Didn't a Sinn Fein councillor recently call Varadkar Indian? I think we're more similar to the Brits than we think.

No, he called his great grandfather Indian, and said Leo had Indian heritage but was obviously an Irish citizen.

In his blunt, awkward way to make a stupid point he ignored his maternal side's Irish heritage.

James Brown · 12-02-2020 04:27PM

Cupatae wrote: »

Do you think theirs any negatives to SF specifically getting in power? or anything bad about the party ?

I think trying to completely change the point of a comment not even mentioning SF to try get a dig in at SF is a waste of my time anyway.
You are merely continuing the tactic. Be honest. Just post about SF don't try twist posts of people trying to speak on something.

Negatives, yes. They've a lot of baggage making the transition from the troubles until now and the obvious ex this and that affiliates and criminality.
If every policy/political comment needs to be a discussion on such matters, I'm not interested.
Do you bring up bloody sunday anytime Boris Johnson gets a mention?

Cupatae · 12-02-2020 04:31PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think trying to completely change the point of a comment not even mentioning SF to try get a dig in at SF is a waste of my time anyway.
You are merely continuing the tactic. Be honest. Just post about SF don't try twist posts of people trying to speak on something.

Seems to me you are happy to waste your time banging on about how great they are but when it comes to anything negative or inconvenient to your points its deemed "Waste of time"

You don't seem very balanced in your own views if you are not willing to atleast acknowledge the bad, or negative aspects..

By the way i was all for SF breaking up the big two and happy for them if they were genuine about change so your excuse of "Me continuing the tactic" for not answering the question doesnt really fly.

Ush1 · 12-02-2020 04:31PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

He'd likely be Irish and not relevant to the point but a try at a dig at SF, sure why not.

How is it not relevant to the point?

You're pointing out British electorate ignorance, and I'm pointing out Irish.

thequarefellow · 12-02-2020 04:31PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, he called his great grandfather Indian, and said Leo had Indian heritage but was obviously an Irish citizen.

In his blunt, awkward way to make a stupid point he ignored his maternal side's Irish heritage.

Not that it matters but wasn't De Valera born in another country and to a Spanish father?

I'm glad SF had the sense to give that Holohan idiot the boot. An embarrassment.

Ush1 · 12-02-2020 04:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, he called his great grandfather Indian, and said Leo had Indian heritage but was obviously an Irish citizen.

In his blunt, awkward way to make a stupid point he ignored his maternal side's Irish heritage.

Backs up what I'm saying so.

What have we come to

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