What have we come to

James Brown · 10-02-2020 10:50PM

r3nu4l wrote: »

I'm amazed at the number of Sinn Féin supporters in this thread who are asking everyone to forget about the troubles because it's 'in the past'. The RIC and the Black and Tans are way furthert back in the past and Sinn Féin won't let anyone forget about that.

Forget about the people who just over thirty years ago were murdering children and who killed more Catholics than any of the Loyalist groups ever murdered but don't ever forget similar actions by people over one hundred years ago? Hypocracy, thy name is Sinn Féin!

Forget nothing.
Should we tell Boris Johnson to get f***ed at trade talks because of bloody Sunday?
Catch yourself on.

flazio · 10-02-2020 10:51PM

Looking at this thread, with all this "Sinn Fein are bad" - "So is every party if you go back far enough" - "Pride is now bad thing" etc etc etc
One things for certain. Sinn Fein will never be able to unite the 26 counties we already have, never mind the other 6.

James Brown · 10-02-2020 10:52PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Its actually tragic how out of reality they can STILL be even after the results :pac:

It's kinda funny.

BanditLuke · 10-02-2020 10:52PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Formally homeless (a new novelty for a SF TD - beats the usual jail story)

Working class - Clondalkin check

Tattoos - check

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ward_(politician)

Nothing stereotypical about this SF candidate whatsoever.... :rolleyes:

Great to be sure. This is a bad day for you isn't it

Aidric · 10-02-2020 10:53PM

r3nu4l wrote: »

I'm amazed at the number of Sinn Féin supporters in this thread who are asking everyone to forget about the troubles because it's 'in the past'. The RIC and the Black and Tans are way furthert back in the past and Sinn Féin won't let anyone forget about that.

Forget about the people who just over thirty years ago were murdering children and who killed more Catholics than any of the Loyalist groups ever murdered but don't ever forget similar actions by people over one hundred years ago? Hypocracy, thy name is Sinn Féin!

I hear you loud and clear and I am in no way a SF voter. That said FF and FG have their own shady history with the electorate. It's only 10 years since FF oversaw a crippling crash. Some of the same people complicit in that are still at the helm of FF.

By and large the SF result is a protest vote, especially among young voters who have no direct connection to the troubles. A protest vote doesn't transfer to policy and I'm struggling to see how SF will be able to enter a coalition with FF.

Guy:Incognito · 10-02-2020 10:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH I find it amusing that the SF supporters are so aghast at the Maria Bailey affair..

Exaggerating an insurance claim is a terrible crime. Not the victimless stuff like armed robbery of banks and murdering Gardai.

Bill 2.0 · 10-02-2020 10:55PM

flazio wrote: »

Looking at this thread, with all this "Sinn Fein are bad" - "So is every party if you go back far enough" - "Pride is now bad thing" etc etc etc
One things for certain. Sinn Fein will never be able to unite the 26 counties we already have, never mind the other 6.

The US got divided up a few years back by a do-nothing pied piper also promising "Change!".

I can't wait for our Trump after this SF debacle predictably ends in tears.

jam_mac_jam · 10-02-2020 10:55PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The majority were. For example in Dublin Bay North - Denise Mitchell got an 80% vote in the working class area of priorswood. You can be damn sure she did not get much votes in Sutton/Howth.

14 per cent in the Ab category.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll

Cupatae · 10-02-2020 10:55PM

r3nu4l wrote: »

I'm amazed at the number of Sinn Féin supporters in this thread who are asking everyone to forget about the troubles because it's 'in the past'. The RIC and the Black and Tans are way furthert back in the past and Sinn Féin won't let anyone forget about that.

Forget about the people who just over thirty years ago were murdering children and who killed more Catholics than any of the Loyalist groups ever murdered but don't ever forget similar actions by people over one hundred years ago? Hypocracy, thy name is Sinn Féin!

What do you suggest people do then. If we commemorate the tans will you call it quits for SF atrocities ? Or how does it work

The Golden Miller · 10-02-2020 10:57PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Would you vote for a British party here (not counting Sinn Fein)? Would you vote for the DUP, TUV, etc.? If Johnny Adair ran for office here would it not be legitimate to bring up his past? If a ex-B Special parliamentary group emerged, would that be grand? Are Sinn Fein the only ones that are targeted over the Troubles? On your bike.

Why would I vote for a British party here? I'm sure it would be grand for most of the FG Tories we have on here.

Was Johnny Adair ever part of any organisation who signed up to the GFA? Did the DUP even?

Are SF the only one's targeted over the Troubles down here? Yes, yes they are. And for a variety of reason's

GreenandRed · 10-02-2020 10:57PM

Bill 2.0 wrote: »

The US got divided up a few years back by a do-nothing pied piper also promising "Change!".

I can't wait for our Trump after this SF debacle predictably ends in tears.

You're saying Mary Lou will make Ireland great again? Fair play.

gormdubhgorm · 10-02-2020 10:58PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do you hear how arrogant and ignorant you are being?
Tell us all more about your moral issues with SF.

I am sounding a lot more rational than you dismissing murder and cover up of murder as certain issues.Then trying to brush of David Culliane's speech with glib comments.
You are the same fella who screamed hatchet job when Mary Lou gave that terrible performance on Primetime. But had no excuse for your comrade Dave 'up the ra' Cullinane.

This is coming from the same poster who is vehemently anti FG yet uses thier party leader's partner as thier username.

If the likes of you view me as 'arrogant and ignorant' I think that is no bad thing.

And yes I did say the 'likes of you' on purpose.

There are three parties with 50% of the seats who do not want SF in a coalition before this election. That is the real mandate from this election.

GreenandRed · 10-02-2020 10:59PM

They should have a keyboard war for the Seanad election. Imagine the first day and 1 man turns up for 5 seeats.

gormdubhgorm · 10-02-2020 11:01PM

Cupatae wrote: »

What do you suggest people do then. If we commemorate the tans will you call it quits for SF atrocities ? Or how does it work

It is called inclusiveness and reconciliation, people do not seem to get that.

Also the commemoration was not just about the tans - it was the RIC as a whole throughout thier history in Ireland. Many ordinary decent Irishmen, some fluent Irish speakers, more Irish than you or me.

That is the real irony.

Eamon Ceant's father was in the RIC for example.

But I never hear a shinner mention that in the protests?

The Golden Miller · 10-02-2020 11:02PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am sounding a lot more rational than you dismissing murder and cover up of murder as certain issues.Then trying to brush of David Culliane's speech with glib comments.
You are the same fella who screamed hatchet job when Mary Lou gave that terrible performance on Primetime. But had no excuse for your comrade Dave 'up the ra' Cullinane.

This is coming from the same poster who is vehemently anti FG yet uses thier party leader's partner as thier username.

If the likes of you view me as 'arrogant and ignorant' I think that is no bad thing.

And yes I did say the 'likes of you' on purpose.

There are three parties with 50% of the seats who do not want SF in a coalition before this election. That is the real mandate from this election.

People voted for FG and FF on the sole issue that they wouldn't go into government with SF? Some mandate alright

GreenandRed · 10-02-2020 11:05PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is called inclusiveness and reconciliation.
Also the commemoration was not just about the tans - it was the RIC as a whole throughout thier history in Ireland. Many ordinary decent Irishmen, some fluent Irish speakers, more Irish than you or me.

That is the real irony.

Eamon Ceant's father was in the RIC for example.

Yes. But if they were streetwise they would have organised something after the election and not given opponents an opportunity to do them down in the media in the leadup.

Foxtrol · 10-02-2020 11:05PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why are you trying to link the two?

The point was about their 'ability to negotiate'. They clearly have the ability if you look at the last 20 years or more and what has been achieved.
That's if you are in the mood to give them any credit at all, which you don't appear to want to do.

So worry yourself away.

I'm linking the two to point out your complete hypocrisy.

What has Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty or one of the new 'up the ra' crew personally achieved in high level European or even northern negotiations over the last 20 years?

flazio · 10-02-2020 11:07PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is called inclusiveness and reconciliation, people do not seem to get that.

Also the commemoration was not just about the tans - it was the RIC as a whole throughout thier history in Ireland. Many ordinary decent Irishmen, some fluent Irish speakers, more Irish than you or me.

That is the real irony.

Eamon Ceant's father was in the RIC for example.

But I never hear a shinner mention that in the protests?

And I'm sure there were decent family men and women in lower ranks of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. We still wouldn't commemorate the Nazis.

gormdubhgorm · 10-02-2020 11:07PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

People voted for FG and FF on the sole issue that they wouldn't go into government with SF? Some mandate alright

And labour as well it comes up to 50% or over. Yes I would call that a mandate.

SF never had 50% mandate in NI yet love preaching about theirs - especially when refusing to enter WM during brexit.

r3nu4l · 10-02-2020 11:09PM

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Tell me this.
Had there been a fourth party outside of FF /FG / SF with numerous candidates and a manifesto that mentioned the major issues would they have done well?

Yes and I probably would have Voted for them but I could never vote for Sinn Fëin because despite the outward appearance, they are still indelibly linked to the IRA and while the armed resistance is over, the power players are still in the background pulling the strings and SF is still infested with former IRA. Sure, a lot of new blood are less like that but there are still too many establishment SF in-house.

The Golden Miller · 10-02-2020 11:10PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And labour as well it comes up to 50% or over. Yes I would call that a mandate.

SF never had 50% mandate in NI yet love preaching about theirs - especially when refusing to enter WM during brexit.

Glad I'm now aware that the only reason people voted FF and FG was simply because they stated they wouldn't go into government with SF

The Golden Miller · 10-02-2020 11:12PM

r3nu4l wrote: »

Yes and I probably would have Voted for them but I could never vote for Sinn Fëin because despite the outward appearance, they are still indelibly linked to the IRA and while the armed resistance is over, the power players are still in the background pulling the strings and SF is still infested with former IRA. Sure, a lot of new blood are less like that but there are still too many establishment SF in-house.

Ah yes, the shadowy figures. What age would they be now?

FrancieBrady · 10-02-2020 11:12PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm linking the two to point out your complete hypocrisy.

What has Mary Lou, Eoin O Broin, Pearse Doherty or one of the new 'up the ra' crew personally achieved in high level European or even northern negotiations over the last 20 years?

They haven't been involved in any high level EU negotiations.

What high level negotiations was Simon Coveney involved in before he was actually involved in them?

Are you saying we should keep FG in power for all time or for the forseeable? You saw what the electorate thought of that last minute plea. Fine Gael got the lowest vote share since 1948

GreenandRed · 10-02-2020 11:12PM

r3nu4l wrote: »

Yes and I probably would have Voted for them but I could never vote for Sinn Fëin because despite the outward appearance, they are still indelibly linked to the IRA and while the armed resistance is over, the power players are still in the background pulling the strings and SF is still infested with former IRA. Sure, a lot of new blood are less like that but there are still too many establishment SF in-house.

Did you live in Northern Ireland during the troubles?

gormdubhgorm · 10-02-2020 11:13PM

flazio wrote: »

And I'm sure there were decent family men and women in lower ranks of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. We still wouldn't commemorate the Nazis.

Irish history is much more complex than that as many a SF supporter has pointed out on this thread.

But SF only want to spin their agenda.

For example Kevin Barry who I assume many a SF supporter has sung about after a few jars. Much is made of his youth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Barry

"a lad of eighteen summers"

But the fella that he shot was younger

Private Harold Washington aged 15 nearly 16.

Cupatae · 10-02-2020 11:14PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is called inclusiveness and reconciliation, people do not seem to get that.

Also the commemoration was not just about the tans - it was the RIC as a whole throughout thier history in Ireland. Many ordinary decent Irishmen, some fluent Irish speakers, more Irish than you or me.

That is the real irony.

Eamon Ceant's father was in the RIC for example.

But I never hear a shinner mention that in the protests?

Oh for sure but it just ends up in circles when one side trys to one up the other , there's hypocracy everywhere if you look hard enough , it doesn't achieve anything.

GreenandRed · 10-02-2020 11:15PM

flazio wrote: »

And I'm sure there were decent family men and women in lower ranks of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. We still wouldn't commemorate the Nazis.

They wouldn't be great Gaeilgoirs.

GreenandRed · 10-02-2020 11:17PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Irish history is much more complex than that as many a SF supporter has pointed out on this thread.

But SF only want to spin their agenda.

For example Kevin Barry who I assume many a SF supporter has sung about after a few jars. Much is made of his youth.

"a lad of eighteen summers"

But the fella that he shot was younger

Private Harold Washington aged 15 nearly 16.

and????

Pretzill · 10-02-2020 11:18PM

There's a lot of people taking this swing towards Sinn Fein very seriously - but I would say for every one of them, there are at least two who will rhu the day they scribbled Number 1 beside SF without even knowing what are who they were voting for.

There is no disputing we need change. But this isn't change, this could be the worst thing that has happened in decades, and it's not that it annoys me, because I would never vote FFG, it annoys me because there is so much ignorance behind this. It's a protest vote - worrying times.

Guy:Incognito · 10-02-2020 11:19PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

People voted for FG and FF on the sole issue that they wouldn't go into government with SF? Some mandate alright

I bet if theyd campaigned saying how each of them would love to form a government with SF then afterwards did a u turn then SF supporters would be up in arms. But MM softening his pre election stance now and suddenly twitter is awash with him finally having some integrity.

Instantly reversing your position after an election is grand for the people it suits..........

What have we come to

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