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New Dail / New Taoiseach

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24567…40

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    #32
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,143 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    OSI wrote: »
    Well why else would you run for a seat in the Dail? You'd hardly being running because you like the decor and just wanna see what all the fuss is about. If you're not there with the intentions of representing your constituents by exercising your power as a TD, then you have no right to be there.

    Because you believe in something, have a vision for society and will use your position in parliament to advocate for it? Not because you’re willing to dump large chunks of that vision for a couple of ministerial pensions and to be part of a government that implements a policy platform that conflicts with your vision in the main.

    Don’t sell out, keep fighting and you might just get to be the big party in government some day, and implement your vision.

    That’s why Labour are on the outs, and rightly so. A vapid gun for hire. Howlin will play ball with any combination after this election for a ministerial post. He and the rest of Labour believe in nothing beyond themselves.


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    #33
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    rob316 wrote: »
    Joan Burton was what happened, talk about a disaster.
    Took the full brunt for water meters and they are to be remembered as the party that took medical cards from disabled children.
    They betrayed absolutely every ideology and principle they had.
    Naw it was that JobBridge scam that did them in.
    It was her baby.


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    #34
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    Naw it was that JobBridge scam that did them in.
    It was her baby.

    I have 3 friends that got back into work after retraining via the job bridge scheme

    now in very good IT jobs.
    it got them on the ladder

    ok, it wasn't suited to a lot of areas but it did work in some sectors


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    #35
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    I have 3 friends that got back into work after retraining via the job bridge scheme

    now in very good IT jobs.
    it got them on the ladder

    ok, it wasn't suited to a lot of areas but it did work in some sectors

    It worked in the IT sector, but still with significant abuse by employers - I know of somewhere that did as many 9 month contracts as possible; although it then hired quite a lot of them

    It was rampantly abused elsewhere; and there were displaced jobs that should never, ever have been put on it - Subway franchisers for instance - but got advertised until called out and may even have been taken up.

    A modified version of the idea could be made work, I think, but with a significant increase in admin costs. Employer should have had to make a contribution at least as the very first reform.


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    #36
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,555 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Didn't negotiate hard enough with FG in 2011, or didn't force FG to stick to the deal strongly enough, and paid a terrible price for it.

    Lost a lot of credibility with their own voters, didn't gain any credibility with anybody else.

    Can't blame a party for going into government, but they were massively out-politicked by FG in government and are suffering for that now.

    Having said that, their 2011 election high was really just part of the 'Punish FF' vote, rather than a widespread public swing towards their policies.


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    #37
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,555 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    L1011 wrote: »
    It was rampantly abused elsewhere; and there were displaced jobs that should never, ever have been put on it - Subway franchisers for instance - but got advertised until called out and may even have been taken up.
    It got so bad they removed the function to complain about a listed internship.


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    #38
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    rob316 wrote: »
    Joan Burton was what happened, talk about a disaster.
    Took the full brunt for water meters and they are to be remembered as the party that took medical cards from disabled children.
    They betrayed absolutely every ideology and principle they had.

    I don't disagree that they were in power when some truly awful cuts were made and extra taxes applied. I also don't think it's fair to lay the blame at their feet for this.
    They were handed a poisoned chalice. There was a chance to introduce some of those taxes during the boom years and to not let public spending get so out of hand. Instead we had an over-reliance on the soon-to-vanish construction industry and a (still) massively inefficient civil service.

    It's a shame, because their policies should actually appeal to a lot of those who are now leaning towards SF. They just don't have the "showmanship" to get the message across. That and they seem to compete with the Greens for a similar type of voter.


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    #39
    optogirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭optogirl


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Not dissimilar myself. I have never voted Labour in my life, but in debate last week I thought Howlin was the only leader talking (a bit of) sense, and with no auction politics!

    Would love to see Labour as a credible alternative but I really think Howlin is holding them back. Every time he is asked a question he launches into a state of the nation address. Step backwards, hold arms aloft. Big Jim would be proud.


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    optogirl wrote: »
    Would love to see Labour as a credible alternative but I really think Howlin is holding them back. Every time he is asked a question he launches into a state of the nation address. Step backwards, hold arms aloft. Big Jim would be proud.

    Howlin goes on the defensive straight away.


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    #41
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    optogirl wrote: »
    Would love to see Labour as a credible alternative but I really think Howlin is holding them back. Every time he is asked a question he launches into a state of the nation address. Step backwards, hold arms aloft. Big Jim would be proud.

    I wonder is that just the way he is or is it due to the fact that they now have such a small base of support. He might feel like he has to make these big speeches to have any chance at gaining support.


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    #42
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Mr Tickle wrote: »
    I don't disagree that they were in power when some truly awful cuts were made and extra taxes applied. I also don't think it's fair to lay the blame at their feet for this.
    They were handed a poisoned chalice. There was a chance to introduce some of those taxes during the boom years and to not let public spending get so out of hand. Instead we had an over-reliance on the soon-to-vanish construction industry and a (still) massively inefficient civil service.

    It's a shame, because their policies should actually appeal to a lot of those who are now leaning towards SF. They just don't have the "showmanship" to get the message across. That and they seem to compete with the Greens for a similar type of voter.
    They should dissolve and let their members join Social Democrats since it's basically the same thing.
    Social Democrats seem to cite the "Nordic model" a lot, and i think that's a more positive message than whatever Labour is pitching.


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    #43
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    They should dissolve and let their members join Social Democrats since it's basically the same thing.
    Social Democrats seem to cite the "Nordic model" a lot, and i think that's a more positive message than whatever Labour is pitching.

    That does seem like a sensible choice. It would have to be a very well managed move though.
    On the one hand they'd need to make it clear that it was happening in order to carry their support with them when they move. They wouldn't want to risk losing the very casual voter who has always voted labour but now won't trust any of "these new mod-ren parties".
    On the other, they don't want to be seen as "Labour by a new name". The people who have dismissed the current Labour could be very difficult to persuade to come over to the new camp.

    There does seem to be a space for a Centre-Left option there though. Just currently it's being scattered among too many smaller parties.


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    #44
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    The scattered nature of the left in Irish politics suits FF and FG perfectly as they've no real opposition


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    #45
    Mr Tickle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    The scattered nature of the left in Irish politics suits FF and FG perfectly as they've no real opposition

    I think Irish politics are possibly the best evidence that the world is controlled by the all powerful Lizard people.

    Here's a question (I'm going to ask in another thread too) Is it possible to find polling data for your local constituency? I'd like to see how the opinion polls look to see if i should vote tactically or just based purely on my own preference.


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    #46
    nigeldaniel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    The Labour party does have a future, it is certainly not finished and does not need to join with other players. First, it needs to be far more savvy with the media, it needs to keep itself in the news all the time not just once every four weeks. It also needs to find some backbone as it stands it looks a bit meek. To get the votes back it could do with a few characters who wear jeans and tee-shirts and the odd guy on a motorbike. It would work wonders for its image and yes, image is everything.

    Dan.



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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dixiefly wrote: »
    I have to say as a person who does not follow a huge amount of politics that I am really surprised (and disappointed) at the showing of the Labour Party in the polls.

    Labour got an unfair amount of the blame for the bad parts of their government but very litte of the credit for what went right.

    What sparked this thought was that someone said to me that they would vote Labour but they had no chance. To me I would far rather Labour than Sinn Fein as I feel they have a record of delivering a level of change - but one that is affordable.

    Is it Brendan Howlin as a leader or did they just lose so many T.D.'s that they have no traction anymore?

    All completely my own opinion with nothing to back it up, other than anecdotal.

    What happened to Labour is exactly what happens to minority parties, in Ireland.
    They are, unfairly, expected to police the larger party in a coalition. This causes their core to resent their "betrayal" and the floating voters feel that they did not push the major partner hard enough.

    Voters then take their anger out on the smaller party by abandoning (core) or no transfers (floating).

    Labour's issue is compounded by the fact that they faced challenges from the further left, while going into government with a right leaning FG. Opened them up on both sides.

    There is this weird feeling in Ireland that a party should always want to go into government, even when it results in a hiding.
    Labour had the opportunity to lead the opposition in 2012 and drive FF down further, and potentially lead the 2016 or 2020 governments, but jumped into bed with Enda.


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    #48
    MintyMagnum
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭MintyMagnum


    Just heard Pearse Doherty suggesting this on Rte1 - thoughts..


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »
    Get f-cking in!

    Trump
    Boris Johnson
    Mary Lou, shur, if the rest of the countries are taking the piss :rolleyes:


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    #50
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Will she not be too busy building 100,000 public homes in 5 years?

    Cos unless she grabs a shovel herself, along with everyone else, how the **** is that particular promise going to happen?


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    #51
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,667 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Will she not be too busy building 100,000 public homes in 5 years?

    Cos unless she grabs a shovel herself, along with everyone else, how the **** is that particular promise going to happen?

    Assume tax breaks and land availability.

    The builders are here. They're just building offices and hotels due to the same tax breaks.


    It's .... Money... Not resources.


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    #52
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,057 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Can she be the country's leader if her party gets 3rd in the seat count?

    Or will being the biggest % of the votes be enough?


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    #53
    MintyMagnum
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭MintyMagnum


    mrcheez wrote: »
    I'm counting 20 threads about Sinn Feinn already, I think they're milling out threads pretty successfully already

    OP here am neither a SF member nor voter!


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    #54
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    Not sure Mary Lou will ever be Taoiseach, she may hold the title at some point alright but Slab Murphy and the likes will be pulling the strings.


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    #55
    marvin80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Will she not be too busy building 100,000 public homes in 5 years?

    Cos unless she grabs a shovel herself, along with everyone else, how the **** is that particular promise going to happen?

    To be fair they've all made promises they won't be keeping.


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    #56
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    MintyMagnum wrote: »
    Just heard Pearse Doherty suggesting this on Rte1 - thoughts..
    They can call Eamon Gilmore. He's an expert on slogans like that!


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    #57
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    marvin80 wrote: »
    To be fair they've all made promises they won't be keeping.

    But I thought SF was "a vote for change"


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    #58
    Oops69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Oops69


    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Not sure Mary Lou will ever be Taoiseach, she may hold the title at some point alright but Slab Murphy and the likes will be pulling the strings.
    ah here we go , the old Michawl mc Dowell conspiracy theory still alive .. try manufacturing a fresh one maybe ?


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    #59
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I have no problem with Mary Lou, I think she is great.

    But I don't think she will be after this election, they only contested 42 seats? Please correct me if I am wrong here.

    If anything it looks like Sinn Féin have dropped the ball, they should have contested more seats.


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    #60
    marvin80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    But I thought SF was "a vote for change"

    Yea a change from FF and FG :D


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    #61
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Oops69 wrote: »
    ah here we go , the old Michawl mc Dowell conspiracy theory still alive .. try manufacturing a fresh one maybe ?

    Maybe they should distance themselves from criminals instead of picking them up from prison so. Or moving a peado around like they're the church.


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