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Looking at a house which has a timber extension. How long could it last?

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  • 31-01-2020 9:37am
    #1
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭


    Hi there,

    I'm looking at a house purchase and it's a lovely but small house. It has a timber extension done well and recently checked by a builder with no signs of damp etc as it's insulted.

    However the extension is the living room of the house and is crucial to it as it would be very very small otherwise. How long can a timber extension last? And could it maintained rather than completely replaced as I don't think I'll ever have 50k to build and extension as a permanent structure.


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    #2
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,218 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Fully depends on what you mean by "timber extension".

    Do you mean a timber frame kit with a block outer leaf?
    Do you mean timber frame kit with timber clad outer leaf?
    Or do you mean a DIY timber structure like you'd see some pub smoking areas build from?


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    #3
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Fully depends on what you mean by "timber extension".

    Do you mean a timber frame kit with a block outer leaf?
    Do you mean timber frame kit with timber clad outer leaf?
    Or do you mean a DIY timber structure like you'd see some pub smoking areas build from?

    I'm not sure but it seems it's quite good quality. Would you have estimates on if it would definitely need to be replaced in a lifetime or could be maintained?


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    #4
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    I'm not sure but it seems it's quite good quality. Would you have estimates on if it would definitely need to be replaced in a lifetime or could be maintained?

    Can’t answer that with information you’ve provided.
    Post a picture?

    Or what does the original opinion on compliance with building regulations state?
    Has it been certified?


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    #5
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    kceire wrote: »
    Can’t answer that with information you’ve provided.
    Post a picture?

    Or what does the original opinion on compliance with building regulations state?
    Has it been certified?

    Sure, attached. I'm not sure yet as I haven't got the house surveyed but a builder did have a quick look at it. He couldn't confirm a timeframe but was of the opinion it would eventually need to be replaced. Just wanted to get a second opinion. It has been built in 2005. But is insulted etc.


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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Sure, attached. I'm not sure yet as I haven't got the house surveyed but a builder did have a quick look at it. He couldn't confirm a timeframe but was of the opinion it would eventually need to be replaced. Just wanted to get a second opinion. It has been built in 2005. But is insulted etc.

    That to me looks like a timber sun room.
    I’d imagine it will last with upkeep and maintenance but the issue is how it complies with planning. Building regulations.

    And if you are buying, the seller needs to provide a cert of compliance for it.


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    #7
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    kceire wrote: »
    That to me looks like a timber sun room.
    I’d imagine it will last with upkeep and maintenance but the issue is how it complies with planning. Building regulations.

    And if you are buying, the seller needs to provide a cert of compliance for it.

    Thank you. Would it last a lifetime like 60+ years with maintenance or no chance? Don't want to go ahead and then have to fork out 100k which I don't have within a few years.


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    #8
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Thank you. Would it last a lifetime like 60+ years with maintenance or no chance? Don't want to go ahead and then have to fork out 100k which I don't have within a few years.

    No, in my opinion.
    *Based on the lack of info on the structure and prevention from water and dampness. If you are buying this house, the first stumbling block will be the seller providing your solicitor an opinion on compliance.


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    #9
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,275 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    My concern would be the wall in the left of the picture, also thats a lot of flat roof.
    With the savage extension on the RHS, it might be more of a timber shade room :(

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #10
    ebayissues
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭ebayissues


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    My concern would be the wall in the left of the picture, also thats a lot of flat roof.
    With the savage extension on the RHS, it might be more of a timber shade room :(


    Whats up with the wall to the left? Is there any boundary issues?


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Looks like the neighbors really took liberties with their extensions !
    The eves look to be over the boundary!


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    #12
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,196 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    For any number of reasons I would run away from that.


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    #13
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    looksee wrote: »
    For any number of reasons I would run away from that.

    Why?


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    #14
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    ebayissues wrote: »
    Whats up with the wall to the left? Is there any boundary issues?

    What do you mean?


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    #15
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,275 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    What do you mean?
    .
    if you don't see the issue you need to walk or get trusted professional advice

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #16
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    .
    if you don't see the issue you need to walk or get trusted professional advice

    I will be but that will come at a survey phase. Appreciate if you have any indication. The property is in a great area so I'm definitely considering it.


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    #17
    van_beano
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭van_beano


    The house on the right are venting into the garden, there’ll be issues there if you ever plan to build anything against that wall.

    The house on the left shouldn’t have been allowed overhang into the property, a parapet should have been made all the way back.


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    #18
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    van_beano wrote: »
    The house on the right are venting into the garden, there’ll be issues there if you ever plan to build anything against that wall.

    The house on the left shouldn’t have been allowed overhang into the property, a parapet should have been made all the way back.

    Sure but would that not force the house to change there ventilation if I did build? Anyway the existing extensions either side could make it easier for me to extend e.g build against those walls?


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    #19
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    Sure but would that not force the house to change there ventilation if I did build? Anyway the existing extensions either side could make it easier for me to extend e.g build against those walls?

    No. They may have useable and rights over time. You will have to accommodate their vents.

    You cannot build on their walls unless you have an engineer that will put their name to your extension on their walls. And then anything that goes wrong, or any movement in your structure that damages theirs, you will be liable for. Also, house on the right has built within their boundary, so you would have to construct a new wall within your boundary on that side.

    On the left, you would need to determine where the boundary in reality on the site.

    The appears to be a whole lot of wrongs with the existing timber extension, but without seeing it on the ground, you can’t make a concrete (excuse the pun) determination.


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    #20
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    kceire wrote: »
    No. They may have useable and rights over time. You will have to accommodate their vents.

    You cannot build on their walls unless you have an engineer that will put their name to your extension on their walls. And then anything that goes wrong, or any movement in your structure that damages theirs, you will be liable for. Also, house on the right has built within their boundary, so you would have to construct a new wall within your boundary on that side.

    On the left, you would need to determine where the boundary in reality on the site.

    The appears to be a whole lot of wrongs with the existing timber extension, but without seeing it on the ground, you can’t make a concrete (excuse the pun) determination.

    What would you recommend to do before purchasing the house? Have a builder check it or surveyor? Or both.


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    #21
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,196 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Yes, definitely a surveyor, a builder could probably tell you the issues but they are more interested in getting building jobs!

    As for why would I run away from it - well for all the reasons you have been given. I would not like that huge wall on the right, very oppressive, and there are definitely issues with the gutters from next door overlapping the flat roof. Others are rightly wary of commenting on the timber extension without seeing it, but to my (granted amateur, though I have looked at a lot of wooden buildings recently) eye it does not look like a quality bit of building. I suspect the timbers would be absolutely minimal in the walls, most people building those sort of 'garden room/ sun room' type buildings build to a quality not very far up from sheds. There are some very high quality ones, but I don't think that is one of them.


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    #22
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Thanks for your input. It's a reasonably priced house in a great area and thats what's holding my interest. A local build did look at it and actually went it. He said there was no sign at all of damp etc and he did a lot of the extensions to the neighbors etc. He wasn't looking for work but couldn't commit on how long the extension would last or if it could be maintained instead of replaced.


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    #23
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    What would you recommend to do before purchasing the house? Have a builder check it or surveyor? Or both.

    I would consider the possibility that id knock down the timber structure and build a proper warm, ventilated extension. That way the 2 storey extension to the right will not be as imposing assuming you build out to a similar depth.

    Then you also control the left side by building to your boundary and removing any oversailing issues.

    Before buying, assuming all else is in order, id get advice on what exactly is happening on the left hand side with regards to the boundary.


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    #24
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    kceire wrote: »
    I would consider the possibility that id knock down the timber structure and build a proper warm, ventilated extension. That way the 2 storey extension to the right will not be as imposing assuming you build out to a similar depth.

    Then you also control the left side by building to your boundary and removing any oversailing issues.

    Before buying, assuming all else is in order, id get advice on what exactly is happening on the left hand side with regards to the boundary.

    Brilliant thanks for this.


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    #25
    Bracken81
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭Bracken81


    looksee wrote: »
    For any number of reasons I would run away from that.

    +1
    As previously stated that looks like it doesn't comply with Building Regulations whatsoever! Be very interested to see if the solicitor involved in the sale can produce a Certificate of Compliance for it

    At the very least I would expect to put aside €30000/40000 to demolish that extension and build a New one, if you proceed with buying the house
    (Reasons being, Dampness, Mould, Water Ingress must be creeping into the Main House)


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    #26
    zapper55
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭zapper55


    It looks messed up from a boundary point of view, as if the timber extension encroached onto the other property. Did they get/need planning permission for it, what's the sound insulation like with next door as a result?

    It looks to me like a job done on the cheap instead of getting a proper extension and it would have me wondering what else did the owners cut corners on in the house.

    I'd say there's a reason this house is the only reasonably priced one in the area....


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    #27
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    Bracken81 wrote: »
    +1
    As previously stated that looks like it doesn't comply with Building Regulations whatsoever! Be very interested to see if the solicitor involved in the sale can produce a Certificate of Compliance for it

    At the very least I would expect to put aside €30000/40000 to demolish that extension and build a New one, if you proceed with buying the house
    (Reasons being, Dampness, Mould, Water Ingress must be creeping into the Main House)

    They EA and sellers seem very confident they can produce all the required documentation.

    There are a number of bidders bidding on it currently.


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    #28
    ebayissues
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭ebayissues


    It's 350k as it's..... Location is good but not reasonably priced tbh


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    #29
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    I'd be quite amazed if the seller was able to produce a CoC for the house as is including the timber portion.

    People usually put up these timber rooms because they haven't the funds to do a full and proper extension. I would be genuiinely amazed if that extension came anywhere close to satisfying the building regulations at the time. Sure god knows, it is hard enough to get people to build a regular house or extension to the regs, not to mind a timber garden room built on a shoe string budget by a few handymen.

    I think that you should assume that the extension is non-compliant and will need to be removed until someone can prove otherwise.

    You could also just demolish it and let the house revert to its previous configuration by reinstalling the doors at the back of the house.


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    #30
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    I'd be quite amazed if the seller was able to produce a CoC for the house as is including the timber portion.

    People usually put up these timber rooms because they haven't the funds to do a full and proper extension. I would be genuiinely amazed if that extension came anywhere close to satisfying the building regulations at the time. Sure god knows, it is hard enough to get people to build a regular house or extension to the regs, not to mind a timber garden room built on a shoe string budget by a few handymen.

    I think that you should assume that the extension is non-compliant and will need to be removed until someone can prove otherwise.

    You could also just demolish it and let the house revert to its previous configuration by reinstalling the doors at the back of the house.

    It would be nearly unlivable without the extension. It would be a tiny tiny house.


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    #31
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Pheonix10 wrote: »
    It would be nearly unlivable without the extension. It would be a tiny tiny house.

    That may be, but I think as it is, that extension is most unlikely to be compliant with building regs and in order to achieve compliance it would probably, realistically have to be reconstructed from the ground up.

    Edit: from below the ground up! Given the likely amateur handyman job that this was, it's probable that the floor and foundations (if any) are wholly substandard.

    Just because there is no outward signs of damp isn't good enough to say it's all fine and grand. It may well be a fire hazard and for all we know could be riddled with dry rot beneath the surface.

    Even if its insulated it's most unlikely that the u values are part L compliant.

    There is a reason the asking price is lower than average - the new owner must deal with this clusterf*ck of an extension.

    As I said before, it's difficult enough add it is to get reputable builders and contractors to build things in accordance with specifications and building standards......what chance have you got with fly by night handymen doing it as a nixer?


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