General Election TV debates

pjohnson · 05-02-2020 10:57AM

FF and FG acolytes doing great. Dragging things back to the troubles to try and distract from their own far more recent disasters.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 10:59AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Then why won’t Conor Murphy tell these members of the IRA - that he claimed he spoke to - to speak to the PSNI or the Gardai?

Also, this ‘the organisation wasn’t, just some members’ stick doesn’t make people go ‘oh ok then’.

The IRA as an organisation was not involved.

Other than asking for those with info to come forward I am not sure what it is you expect SF to do?

Why would SF have any more credible evidence than the IMC or the PSNI or the local community in general?

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 11:00AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'll take that as a biased position given your posting here.

My own view is biased too, but I accept that at various points they all blustered and obfuscated. Michael Martin being the worst culprit imo.

He has separated himself from everything bad that has happened in this country in the last 20 years.

That is true but he did not end up being dumbstruck, and like a rabbit in headlights. Mary Lou appeared out of her league when she had to go off script and her confidence vanished - the Quinn question - the special courts etc. The body language stiffened. The face dropped there was a look of panic.

I remember SF supporters were saying it was a chance for SF to do well pre-debate as FF/FG would attack SF. I thought this might happen as well. But MM and Leo played smart. Mary Lou managed to do most of the harm to herself not by what the others said.

SafeSurfer · 05-02-2020 11:02AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

According to the IMC the IRA were not involved at an organisational level.

Not sure what more can be said about it. But carry on, it is clear that no matter what was said, holes would have been found.

It is also clear that to a large extent this attack stuff is not working.

Why did no Sinn Fein MLA vote for the motion in the Northern Ireland Assembly condemning the murder of Paul Quinn and calling on those with information on the murder to come forward?

A strange stance from warriors for justice don’t you think?

smurgen · 05-02-2020 11:03AM

pjohnson wrote: »

FF and FG acolytes doing great. Dragging things back to the troubles to try and distract from their own far more recent disasters.

The same FF that had a taoiseach gun running for the Ra.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 11:04AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is true but he did not end up being dumbstruck, and like a rabbit in headlights. Mary Lou appeared out of her league when she had to go off script and her confidence vanished - the Quinn question - the special courts etc. The body language stiffened. The face dropped there was a look of panic.

I remember SF supporters were saying it was a chance for SF to do well pre-debate as FF/FG would attack SF. I thought this might happen as well. But MM and Leo played smart. Mary Lou managed to do most of the harm to herself not by what the others said.

Yes, I can see how somebody who clearly, based on their previous posting, wants to maintain the power swap in this country, could look at the debate in that light.

The issue is, how many are like you I suppose.

Necro · 05-02-2020 11:04AM

Whelo79 wrote:

I don't think these are the big MLM/SF have been exposed moments some people would like to think they are. I still think they will drop in the polls slightly, 18-21% and that both FF and FG will take a higher percentage of first preference votes.

You think SF support will actually be that high?

I have serious doubts about their vote force mobilising tbh.

And anyways, as I keep saying and others seem to forget, 42 candidates total will not translate to 42 to seats, it just won't

25 seats I reckon. 28 absolute max.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 11:07AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Why did no Sinn Fein MLA vote for the motion in the Northern Ireland Assembly condemning the murder of Paul Quinn and calling on those with information on the murder to come forward?

A strange stance from warriors for justice don’t you think?

SF are now expected to vote for motions condemning them? Seriously SS????

:D:D

thequarefellow · 05-02-2020 11:08AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I remember SF supporters were saying it was a chance for SF to do well pre-debate as FF/FG would attack SF. I thought this might happen as well. But MM and Leo played smart. Mary Lou managed to do most of the harm to herself not by what the others said.

Yes, fair dues to MM and LV for reading the situation well and not hounding on her too much. But her performance didn't lose her any supporters. Did she gain any new ones? Probably not. I actually think LV did well in this debate. He had the most difficult job to do up there. Promise change while also defend his record in office. I thought he did this very well when attacked on the health issue for example. I thought MM looked very shaky when he was reminded of his gung-ho support of Bertie Ahern. The Finance minister without a bank account. The leader who explained away large cash deposits as a good day in the bookies. Micheal Martin is forever tainted and i will never vote FF as long as he is at the helm. I refuse to vote FG because they allow fraudster Alan Farrell stand. I was going to vote SF but I think I will now vote Independent or Green.

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 11:13AM

Whelo79 wrote: »

Two things puzzle me from last night's debate and MLM's so called two 'big slip ups'

1. On the SCC. She clearly stated she was in favour of our judicial system and that the SCC required reviewing to see if it is fit for purpose. Seeing as we are the only country in Europe with such a court and the fact that Amnesty International and The UN among others call for it to be abolished, what exactly is MLM being lambasted about here?

Because historically the special crimnal courts were used to round up those who were members of illegal organisations and threats to the ROI.
Many members of SF either tactically supported/support a certain illegal organisation or were members of a certain illegal organisation.

2. On the Paul Quinn issue, by the hysteria in here you would think SF are in some way responsible for the horrible death he suffered and MLM was somehow tricked into taking responsibility for it. The issue being discussed is not directly about the murder of PQ but about a statement made by Conor Murphy. This is actually a Conor Murphy issue, he made a statement 12-13 years ago regarding PQ alleged involvement in criminality prior to his murder. CM recently advised MLM that he did not make that statement (which she recounted in the Dobson interview) Last night MLM corrected this and said CM had in fact made the statement and he retracts the claim and would apologise to the family of PQ. Only after this correction of the facts did Miriam bring up the Dobson interview. So is the issue here that a politician incorrectly recounted a statement he made from 12 years, or that maybe he purposefully lied about a statement and got caught out? Imagine, a politician trying to deny they said something when in fact they actually had said it. It happens every day if the week! It happened several times last night in the debate.

This question was connected to your first point those connected to illegal organisations and the covering up of same. What really caught Mary Lou out was that she was not prepared for the quote from Conor Murphy. Previously she tried to throw cold water on the issue and was stumped. I felt a bit sorry for her trying to distance herself from the shady past of SF for the ROI voters - but just when she thought she was out they pulled her back in.

I imagine this was Mary Lou's thought process as she stumbled over her answer about the Conor Murphy quote.

SafeSurfer · 05-02-2020 11:13AM

smurgen wrote: »

The same FF that had a taoiseach gun running for the Ra.

What would the stock Sinn Fein answer be to this allegation?

If you have any evidence of this you should bring it to the Gardaí or PSNI. I would encourage you to take the Sinn Fein advice.

Hamsterchops · 05-02-2020 11:16AM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I'm watching The Spin Room thing and they spoke to students from UCD. There was one from the Green Party(I think) and she said Mary Lou spoke about climate change the best or did I hear all that wrong.

The three UCD students agreed that Mary Lou came out best, and that she had addressed their issues, one of the students also said that Sinn Fein would supply 100.000 new homes, but that Labour would only provide 80.000, so Sinn Fein was best

Ah bless, the innocence of youth.

blanch152 · 05-02-2020 11:17AM

pjohnson wrote: »

FF and FG acolytes doing great. Dragging things back to the troubles to try and distract from their own far more recent disasters.

Paul Quinn was beaten to death in 2007, hardly the era of the Troubles.

quokula · 05-02-2020 11:21AM

thequarefellow wrote: »

Yes, fair dues to MM and LV for reading the situation well and not hounding on her too much. But her performance didn't lose her any supporters. Did she gain any new ones? Probably not. I actually think LV did well in this debate. He had the most difficult job to do up there. Promise change while also defend his record in office. I thought he did this very well when attacked on the health issue for example. I thought MM looked very shaky when he was reminded of his gung-ho support of Bertie Ahern. The Finance minister without a bank account. The leader who explained away large cash deposits as a good day in the bookies. Micheal Martin is forever tainted and i will never vote FF as long as he is at the helm. I refuse to vote FG because they allow fraudster Alan Farrell stand. I was going to vote SF but I think I will now vote Independent or Green.

Sounds like it lost one supporter at least. While it's true that a lot of their hardcore support will wave away the blunders, I think there will be a lot of people who are not quite so loyal - after all recent local, European and presidential election results suggests most of this support is newly won.

Hamsterchops · 05-02-2020 11:22AM

markodaly wrote: »

You see, people in these communities know who these men are. Its the same with the Quinn kidnapping. The Provos are now hired goons to do drity work, but is the ordinary Joe Soap going to go against the PIRA and SF?

These guys still strike fear into some communities.

Francie just admitted that he and everyone knows who was behind this murder. Yet not one charge was brought forward.
This tells its own story, and people want these people in government? :rolleyes:

Problem is, many younger voters don't really care about all that, they don't care about the special criminal courts either, they just want change, and they love Mary Lou and the way she smiles and makes smart "one liners", they like the way she talks.

car_radio19834 · 05-02-2020 11:23AM

Maybe they should have asked Micheal Martin about all the suicides his party had a hand in after the crash.

**** in suits are never seen as criminals.

maccored · 05-02-2020 11:23AM

blanch152 wrote: »

Paul Quinn was beaten to death in 2007, hardly the era of the Troubles.

by people who had nothing to do with SF

road_high · 05-02-2020 11:24AM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The three UCD students agreed that Mary Lou came out best, and that she had addressed their issues, one of the students also said that Sinn Fein would supply 100.000 new homes, but that Labour would only provide 80.000, so Sinn Fein was best

Ah bless, the innocence of youth.

Switched off before listening to their idealistic whining. SF infiltrate all those public platforms as they do social media. It’s virtually impossible to have an opposing social media account these days without their minions taking it over. So no surprise to hear that was the opinion

maccored · 05-02-2020 11:24AM

markodaly wrote: »

You see, people in these communities know who these men are. Its the same with the Quinn kidnapping. The Provos are now hired goons to do drity work, but is the ordinary Joe Soap going to go against the PIRA and SF?

These guys still strike fear into some communities.

Francie just admitted that he and everyone knows who was behind this murder. Yet not one charge was brought forward.
This tells its own story, and people want these people in government? :rolleyes:

says the northern expert

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 11:28AM

markodaly wrote: »

Francie just admitted that he and everyone knows who was behind this murder. Yet not one charge was brought forward.
This tells its own story, and people want these people in government? :rolleyes:

I can understand your view here if you support Special Powers for Gardai and Courts.

There is the matter of 'evidence' that will stand in a court.
Direct your questions to those tasked with bringing people to justice.

car_radio19834 · 05-02-2020 11:29AM

Peter Casey shows the protest vote is in Ireland.

Sinn Fein mightn't have the best policies, just like Peter Casey didn't but at least he said what we were all thinking. And ML is doing the same, calling out FG and FF for being the same party and being the party of the landlord and developer. Peter Casey got 23% and that's in a field with Miggledy who everyone loves.

Plumbthedepths · 05-02-2020 11:29AM

Jaysus poor Leo, a reasonable effort last night yet Noonan already sticking in the knife. To top it all Donald Risk cancelled his visit to help canvass with Leo.
Rats and ship springs to mind.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/noonan-backs-donohoe-to-be-fine-gael-leader-as-pressure-mounts-on-varadkar-38928193.html

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 11:31AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, I can see how somebody who clearly, based on their previous posting, wants to maintain the power swap in this country, could look at the debate in that light.

The issue is, how many are like you I suppose.

So it is wrong to have a power swap 'power sharing' in the ROI - SF anti-establishment on the outside. But no problem to have power sharing a 'power swap' in NI with SF as part of the establishment?

No matter what you say about FF/FG the simple fact is they do not have the same sort of shadows and bad smells that follow them around like SF do.
What is the worst FF/FG did in the past? Corrupt politicians and so on, normal political failings. CJ Haughey, Ivor Callely, Micheal Lowry, Liam Lawlor, Maria Bailey.

What is the worst SF have done? Covered up murders, called the victims criminal, not cooperated with police, anti the rule of law. All of which rared thier heads again last night.

These are the parts SF need to distance themselves from and cleanse themselves of. The corruption part can easily be solved for FG/FF they can just be got rid of from the party. But in SF's case some people literally have to be buried. That is the difference

optogirl · 05-02-2020 11:31AM

car_radio19834 wrote: »

Peter Casey shows the protest vote is in Ireland.

Sinn Fein mightn't have the best policies, just like Peter Casey didn't but at least he said what we were all thinking. And ML is doing the same, calling out FG and FF for being the same party and being the party of the landlord and developer. Peter Casey got 23% and that's in a field with Miggledy who everyone loves.

Speak for yourself. Peter Casey is a racist opportunistic c*** with f all to say for himself.

05-02-2020 11:33AM

The question I’m asking myself is who should I be voting for to offer the checks and balances to a possible SF and others government?

realdanbreen · 05-02-2020 11:34AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can understand your view here if you support Special Powers for Gardai and Courts.

There is the matter of 'evidence' that will stand in a court.
Direct your questions to those tasked with bringing people to justice.

Just curious Francie,do they even give you a teabreak there in SF HQ? You're up all night trying to defend them.

Necro · 05-02-2020 11:38AM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote:

The question Iâ€™m asking myself is who should I be voting for to offer the checks and balances to a possible SF and others government?

None of our lot are any good. Not one of them in the Sligo/leitrim area are worth a vote.

The state of McSharry and Harkin on VM1 last night, utter embarrassment to the constituency that those two will top the poll

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 11:42AM

car_radio19834 wrote: »

Sinn Fein mightn't have the best policies,

So you just ignore this fact and vote for them regardless, makes sense.
Surely it is critical that a serious political party has decent policies to take the next step - increase the demographic of those who vote for the party. Other than playing to the 'them and us' which is is all SF seem to be able do.

FrancieBrady · 05-02-2020 11:43AM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Just curious Francie,do they even give you a teabreak there in SF HQ? You're up all night trying to defend them.

Like everything else you guys throw, that comment has no back up either.

'Up all night'?

My last post on this thread was at 12.59 last night.

Gormdubh was posting after 3am and is still posting...but 'Francie...HQ ...in the pay of SF etc etc etc'

gormdubhgorm · 05-02-2020 11:45AM

realdanbreen wrote: »

Just curious Francie,do they even give you a teabreak there in SF HQ? You're up all night trying to defend them.

Franciebady has said it will be his first time voting SF and he is not SF supporter.
But I honestly think he would have done a much better job than Mary Lou did in last nights debate.
I dunno what that says but there you go!

General Election TV debates

Comments