New real time signs for Dublin Bus

MrMusician18 · 29-01-2020 2:43pm #1

Anyone else see these around? They've decided to change from led dot matrix to a monochrome lcd matrix (like a calculator style sign). They include a push button which reads out the times for the sight impaired. They've also got stops with a second eye level screen (Richmond St outbound)

While I like the feature of the audio announcement, I think the new signs look cat. The don't fit properly on the old posts and the largest amount of space is devoted to TFI branding.

The old signs with audio announcement were fine.

bk · 29-01-2020 3:46pm

This seems to be a trial, there seems to be at least two or three other designs that they are trialling around the city.

Some seem to be e-ink displays and seem to be powered by solar power. I'm not sure if they are actually planning to replace the existing RTPI signs, I figure that they are a cheaper option for bus stops without the traditional RTPI signs.

Here are images of them from Irish Transport forum:

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devnull · 29-01-2020 3:47pm

Since TFI are the ones that are paying for them and multiple operators services will be appearing on them, not anything unusual about having the TFI logo there. I would imagine there is some machinery behind that part as they're not really thick signs.

They're testing a few different designs of other signs out at the moment. Unfortunately one type, the eye level with audio announces has been vandalised and one smashed already which would probably make them unlikely.

Kermit.de.frog · 29-01-2020 3:52pm

Maybe it's the light in the OP's pic but I struggle to make out the destinations and times.

On vandalism at the end of the day there are things that are, sadly, not possible to have in Dublin due to anti social behaviour and all the other justice issues which are chronic particularly on the northside.

At best you could have them in locations less likely to be vandalised but chances are they get smashed up sooner or later.

So the at eye level signs will not be there in the end. You can write them off.

Dyr · 29-01-2020 6:11pm

I see they still havent found away to inform the public if the bus arriving is actually in service

MOH · 29-01-2020 6:50pm

Spotted one of the ones from the third pic the other day at the 757 stop on Charlotte Way (opp the Brazilian embassy)
Thought it was weird I never noticed it before, but Google Maps shows one of the older models there as of 18 months ago.
Found it slightly easier to read than the older ones, in daylight anyway.

Leonard Hofstadter · 31-01-2020 1:41am

I hate the new displays on Camden Street and Charlotte Way, you can only see the displays from one side (the older ones showed on both sides). Audio announcements sounds like a great idea until you try pressing them and you realise it gets the pronunciations of some places wrong and the audio announcements are not available in our national language either. They also talk about the 'line 14' or 'line 16', whatever that is.

Qrt · 31-01-2020 3:54am

I like the current displays with the E-Ink combo, the others are ****e

MOH · 31-01-2020 12:16pm

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

I hate the new displays on Camden Street and Charlotte Way, you can only see the displays from one side (the older ones showed on both sides). Audio announcements sounds like a great idea until you try pressing them and you realise it gets the pronunciations of some places wrong and the audio announcements are not available in our national language either. They also talk about the 'line 14' or 'line 16', whatever that is.

Yeah, I only realised last night they're only on one side. That's a bit annoying.

Zipppy · 31-01-2020 12:31pm

A step backwards methinks,,,,

31-01-2020 12:36pm

Are they backlit? Will you be able to see them at night time?

bk · 31-01-2020 12:40pm

I suppose the question is, are these a replacement for RTPI signs or are they meant to be an addition to the existing RTPI signs?

I'd agree that they would be a very poor replacement for RTPI signs. But they could be a nice addition. There are two ways they can be addition:

1) Some RTPI signs have an issue where they serve so many routes, that sometimes your route doesn't display as other routes are coming first. Adding one of these signs to these sort of existing RTPI signs, allows more information and routes to be displayed. It also can be useful for blind users.

2) I've also seen the solar powered version. This could be used as a cheaper alternative to RTPI signs for stops that currently have no RTPI sign. The issue with RTPI signs, is that they require a lot of civil engineering work, they need power and the ESB involved, etc. I'd assume that the solar powered ones are much cheaper and easier to install. So they maybe an option for quieter bus stops currently without RTPI screens.

So really it all depends on why the NTA are trialling these and what then end goal is. I think it could be a positive or negative.

bk · 31-01-2020 12:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Are they backlit? Will you be able to see them at night time?

The lower ones have a button that you can press that lights them up. I haven't personally seen the higher up ones yet, so I don't know about them.

_Kaiser_ · 31-01-2020 1:09pm

Can see the "user level" ones being vandalised and thus pointless.

The higher level ones seem harder to read based on the pictures above.

Just stick to the current orange ones and maybe make them bigger for busier stops.

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

and the audio announcements are not available in our national language either.

That would be the last thing I'd be concerned about. This is about delivering clear, effective messaging quickly. It's bad enough that the existing signs have to cycle back and forth to appease a legal requirement that no-one needs and just as few use I bet.

bk · 31-01-2020 1:35pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Just stick to the current orange ones and maybe make them bigger for busier stops.

Though if the aim is for quieter stops that currently have no RTPI, then that won't work.

The higher up option + solar panel, is probably ok for these sort of stops, even with poorer readability. If it is a choice between these and no RTPI, then these are better.

BTW I got to see the lower down ones up close. Pity about the vandalism, because they looked great, very easy to read.

On the language thing, one weird thing about the lower down ones, it changed between English and Irish, but it seemed to do so only every 15 minutes or more! Pretty useless having Irish up there for 15 minutes. I'm assuming that is just a bug.

dfx- · 31-01-2020 1:44pm

Isn't the main problem with RTPI signs making sure or the customer actually believing that when a bus says 5 min, it is there in 5 min, especially near the terminus which it clearly struggles with.

I don't think anyone has complaints about the typeface, design or appearance of the current signs. So why are they being redesigned...

It looks like another way to plaster the TFI brand over something.

devnull · 31-01-2020 2:57pm

dfx- wrote: »

I don't think anyone has complaints about the typeface, design or appearance of the current signs. So why are they being redesigned...

It looks like another way to plaster the TFI brand over something.

Well that's a conspiracy theory alrgiht in my book.

Installing an RTPI sign is not cheap when you factor all of the work that has to go into it and the costs of doing so and all the parties involved. I would imagine what is happening here is the NTA are looking into ways of expanding RTPI services to more places and lesser used stops without the signifcant costs that currently have to be endured. That can only be a good thing.

Dyr · 31-01-2020 3:36pm

bk wrote: »

The lower ones have a button that you can press that lights them up. I haven't personally seen the higher up ones yet, so I don't know about them.

Well theres a whole new level of retardation in the name of eco-guff.
Needs to be a serrious clear out in the NTA at thsi stage if thats whats passing muster.

kenmm · 31-01-2020 3:47pm

Bambi wrote: »

Well theres a whole new level of retardation in the name of eco-guff.
Needs to be a serrious clear out in the NTA at thsi stage if thats whats passing muster.

It probably for places without a power source? i.e. to use low power solar.

_Kaiser_ · 31-01-2020 3:52pm

kenmm wrote: »

It probably for places without a power source? i.e. to use low power solar.

I think that could be self-defeating. Take those electronic speed signs that are dotted around the place. At night or after a bad day they're dead.

I think if new signs were placed that only work some of the time, it would be worse than not having them at all.

kenmm · 31-01-2020 3:56pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I think that could be self-defeating. Take those electronic speed signs that are dotted around the place. At night or after a bad day they're dead.

I think if new signs were placed that only work some of the time, it would be worse than not having them at all.

ye probably - tbh I never like RTPI anyway - a lot of the time I used it I was burned (living on routes where there was lots of road traffic).

Or more accurately - the 'RT' part I never believed in, it was often the same best guess as just adding up the times on the timetable.

Victor · 31-01-2020 4:11pm

There is another one, different model, on Harrington Street inbound.

bk · 31-01-2020 5:02pm

Bambi wrote: »

Well theres a whole new level of retardation in the name of eco-guff.
Needs to be a serrious clear out in the NTA at thsi stage if thats whats passing muster.

Really! :rolleyes:

Nothing to do with eco-guff, the one with the buttons are the solar powered ones. If the light was on all the time, then it wouldn't last through the night. Same reason it uses e-ink screen, e-ink screens use a fraction of the power of a LCD screen.

As I mentioned, the idea of the solar powered ones is likely to put them into bus stops with no existing RTPI screens and thus no existing power, thus a much cheaper alternative to RTPI installation.

Really a very smart idea. The emergency phones on the motorways work in a similar way, much cheaper to install.

dfx- · 03-02-2020 4:42pm

devnull wrote: »

Well that's a conspiracy theory alrgiht in my book.

Installing an RTPI sign is not cheap when you factor all of the work that has to go into it and the costs of doing so and all the parties involved. I would imagine what is happening here is the NTA are looking into ways of expanding RTPI services to more places and lesser used stops without the signifcant costs that currently have to be endured. That can only be a good thing.

On the other hand, I don't know of any of the current RTPI screens that have been vandalised or broken, appearing blank or not showing information (irrespective of the minute accuracy) when they should be. It's a robust unit.

It isn't broken, don't fix it with ones that have already been vandalised...

devnull · 03-02-2020 4:49pm

dfx- wrote: »

On the other hand, I don't know of any of the current RTPI screens that have been vandalised or broken, appearing blank or not showing information (irrespective of the minute accuracy) when they should be. It's a robust unit.

It isn't broken, don't fix it with ones that have already been vandalised...

Indeed but the cost of putting those units in place is huge in comparison to the newer style ones that they are trialing, so it makes sense to try and find a lower cost way to roll the signs out to many more stops so most patrons of bus routes can potentially avalil of RTPI, no matter how busy their stop is.

I do not think there are any plans to mass replace existing ones, just they are trying to find a solution that will allow a bigger roll out of RTPI. It is a shame that they are being vandalised as it doesnt' show our society in the greatest light.

p_haugh · 03-02-2020 5:25pm

dfx- wrote: »

On the other hand, I don't know of any of the current RTPI screens that have been vandalised or broken, appearing blank or not showing information (irrespective of the minute accuracy) when they should be. It's a robust unit.

It isn't broken, don't fix it with ones that have already been vandalised...

A while ago one of the screens on Dawson street had the lines out of order, I.e the location and time line was showing on the 4th line down instead of at the bottom. Only a graphical glitch but was like that for a few weeks.

donvito99 · 03-02-2020 6:27pm

Bambi wrote: »

Well theres a whole new level of retardation in the name of eco-guff.
Needs to be a serrious clear out in the NTA at thsi stage if thats whats passing muster.

It's a sensible proposal to provide this service in areas where cost has ruled out the installation of the conventional RTPI infrastructure. If there's any "retardation" here it may well be on your part considering you've made an almighty leap in presuming that this is motivated by the environment.

Back to the endless Greta thurnberg shitshow with you

devnull · 04-02-2020 10:48pm

donvito99 wrote: »

IIt's a sensible proposal to provide this service in areas where cost has ruled out the installation of the conventional RTPI infrastructure. If there's any "retardation" here it may well be on your part considering you've made an almighty leap in presuming that this is motivated by the environment.

Back to the endless Greta thurnberg ****show with you

Less of this please - the rest of your post was fine but this just seems like you are trying to snipe at someone about what they may or may not have said elsewhere, which is against the rules.

- Moderator

CatInABox · 14-02-2020 3:18pm

Lots of works out along the Howth road recently, I count three new RTPI signs going in along the route, and all of them look to be the existing style of sign. So far they've only got the silver pole put up, but it's great to see that they're still expanding the signs out to new areas.

bk · 14-02-2020 9:32pm

CatInABox wrote: »

Lots of works out along the Howth road recently, I count three new RTPI signs going in along the route, and all of them look to be the existing style of sign. So far they've only got the silver pole put up, but it's great to see that they're still expanding the signs out to new areas.

If it is just the pole, then it is possible to be the new style. All the examples of the new style have been installed on the original style poles. Just FYI, it could end up the old style, but until the actual screen arrives on the pole, I don't think you can tell.

Jamie2k9 · 15-02-2020 11:30am

They are putting in new high tech bus stops which could have the real time screens incorporated into them and existing screens at those locations could be moved to locations with no real time currently. Two different systems will not work.

bk · 15-02-2020 11:59am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They are putting in new high tech bus stops which could have the real time screens incorporated into them and existing screens at those locations could be moved to locations with no real time currently. Two different systems will not work.

I doubt it, the old style screens require very expensive civil engineering works, you need to get the ESB out to bring power to them, etc.

If a bus stop wasn't busy enough for a RTPI screen the first time around, I doubt they will give such stops the old style screen, when the new style screens seem to be able to work off solar and thus likely much cheaper and easier to install.

Again I could be wrong, I've no inside knowledge, just logically it wouldn't make sense.

Having said that, I definitely welcome integrating the bus stop and RTPI into one pole. Cluttering up the city with loads of extra poles for RTPI in addition to the bus stop poles was silly in the first place IMO.

AlekSmart · 15-02-2020 1:37pm

bk wrote: »

I doubt it, the old style screens require very expensive civil engineering works, you need to get the ESB out to bring power to them, etc.

If a bus stop wasn't busy enough for a RTPI screen the first time around, I doubt they will give such stops the old style screen, when the new style screens seem to be able to work off solar and thus likely much cheaper and easier to install.

Again I could be wrong, I've no inside knowledge, just logically it wouldn't make sense.

Having said that, I definitely welcome integrating the bus stop and RTPI into one pole. Cluttering up the city with loads of extra poles for RTPI in addition to the bus stop poles was silly in the first place IMO.

Totally agree with you on that point.

The amount of pole installations which accompany even the simplest junction work in the Dublin region,has entered the realm of craziness...(unless,of course one,or one's family, has an interest in the Pole supplier !).

Overcomplex,and often questionable on Road Safety grounds,it is a policy which requires clarification and modification.

devnull · 09-03-2020 9:29pm

Another type is now being trialled
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p_haugh · 09-03-2020 9:57pm

devnull wrote: »

Another type is now being trialled

There’s also one of these on stop 278 (also on O’Connell street). The screen that shows the routes serving that stop lists every iteration of the 46a, including one for “Phoenix Park” and “Infirmary Road”, even though they’re one in the same

bk · 09-03-2020 11:04pm

I quite like this design, it certainly handles the English/Irish simultaneously better. Though perhaps better if they could combine both designs, combine multiple arrivals of the same route like in the pictures from the first screen.

BTW, there are four "tabs" at the bottom of this screen, which are: "Front page", "RealTime", "Messages", "Timetables". With buttons below these, so you can look up extra info like Timetables for routes or messages about diversions, etc.

New real time signs for Dublin Bus

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