Garda free coffee

Potential-Monke · 03-02-2020 12:55AM

purifol0 wrote: »

What makes you think I didn't put my name down? 5000 people apply every time. And amazingly those that do become Gards often come from Garda families themselves. Funny how that happens eh.

Also saying I have an agenda when presented with facts that you cant bull**** your way out of is not a great argument.
Do you think I want to have to rely on a police force as unprofessional corrupt and demonstrably incompetent and as ours?
All those other professionals you mention may be fiddling their books but may tax doesnt go to them now does it.

There was no one in my family a Garda, and I still managed. Suppose I'm the exception to the rule eh?

And the reason I'm not getting involved is because I know exactly how this will go, as I've been involved in nearly every Garda bashing thread trying to give the truth from the Garda perspective, where I use my figures, not the averages taken across the entire force, which does overpay the higher ranks. And all the 'benefits' are legally required, shift allowence, overtime allowence, uniform allowence, etc. Should Gardai not be entitled to them? I get them in the private sector now, even better rates tbh.

Corrupt and incompetent? They're considered by many police organisations as one of the best due to not being routinely armed. Again, you're putting each and every single Garda into the same boat, when it's just not true. Would it surprise you to know I was never involved in anything corrupt? Nah, don't believe me, how could I have been, I was a Garda so automatically corrupt yeah?

And it's ok to avoid tax as long as it doesn't cost tax money to run the service?

oceanman wrote: »

no.. but they all would have known what was going on..

No, they wouldn't. First I heard of McCabe was in the papers, followed by an internal memo. First I heard of Kerry was from that ex-members article. We had enough to be worrying about without having to worry about other divisions, especially ones on nearly the opposite side of the country which we would never engage with anyway.

And this is exactly the reason I'm stopping here, because it doesn't matter what is said, the posts are plainly obvious ye just don't like the Gardai for whatever reason and no amount of debate will change that.

KaneToad wrote: »

The first point on the Garda scale is €30,296. However this does not include allowances, this is an important distinction!

For example, all frontline Gardai who work the guards roster get unsocial hours pay.

Such allowances amount to between 25% and 30% of earnings. Source: Dáil statement, MOJ, April 2016.

Therefore, renumeration for a first year guard is between 37,870 and 39,384. Not bad for an entry level job that only requires a leaving certificate (grade D3 minimum in five subjects at ordinary level).

So you think they shouldn't be paid unsocial hours like everyone else in this country? I'm in the private sector now, and I work nights. I get unsocial allowance too, and at 35%. I'm working about 10% of the time, don't have to worry about getting stabbed, or worse shot, as part of my job. I don't have to deal with scumbags and idiot civilians with unnecessary hatred towards me just because of my job. I don't have to worry about management hanging me out to dry so they can get promoted. And, I know my days off are actual days off, I don't have to worry about cancelling plans to attend court.

But please, go ahead and join and tell me how great it is to be a Garda. I'm done though, so don't expect a reply.

oceanman · 03-02-2020 01:06AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

There was no one in my family a Garda, and I still managed. Suppose I'm the exception to the rule eh?

And the reason I'm not getting involved is because I know exactly how this will go, as I've been involved in nearly every Garda bashing thread trying to give the truth from the Garda perspective, where I use my figures, not the averages taken across the entire force, which does overpay the higher ranks. And all the 'benefits' are legally required, shift allowence, overtime allowence, uniform allowence, etc. Should Gardai not be entitled to them? I get them in the private sector now, even better rates tbh.

Corrupt and incompetent? They're considered by many police organisations as one of the best due to not being routinely armed. Again, you're putting each and every single Garda into the same boat, when it's just not true. Would it surprise you to know I was never involved in anything corrupt? Nah, don't believe me, how could I have been, I was a Garda so automatically corrupt yeah?

And it's ok to avoid tax as long as it doesn't cost tax money to run the service?

No, they wouldn't. First I heard of McCabe was in the papers, followed by an internal memo. First I heard of Kerry was from that ex-members article. We had enough to be worrying about without having to worry about other divisions, especially ones on nearly the opposite side of the country which we would never engage with anyway.

And this is exactly the reason I'm stopping here, because it doesn't matter what is said, the posts are plainly obvious ye just don't like the Gardai for whatever reason and no amount of debate will change that.

So you think they shouldn't be paid unsocial hours like everyone else in this country? I'm in the private sector now, and I work nights. I get unsocial allowance too, and at 35%. I'm working about 10% of the time, don't have to worry about getting stabbed, or worse shot, as part of my job. I don't have to deal with scumbags and idiot civilians with unnecessary hatred towards me just because of my job. I don't have to worry about management hanging me out to dry so they can get promoted. And, I know my days off are actual days off, I don't have to worry about cancelling plans to attend court.

But please, go ahead and join and tell me how great it is to be a Garda. I'm done though, so don't expect a reply.

so its close to 40 grand for an entry level garda….

purifol0 · 03-02-2020 01:21AM

Potential-Monke is an ex Gard who thinks that a Gard in his first year should pull in as much as the average private sector worker!

Also:

"Garda representatives said the Horgan report would “sow confusion”. But there is nothing confusing about the numbers: they show that, on average, gardaí are paid more than any other public servants, and lots more than the average private sector worker."

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-pay-report-undermines-case-for-public-sector-wage-increases-1.2902721

To boot:

Average remuneration for gardaí ‘in region of €100,000’ when pensions included

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/striking-gardaí-should-lose-pension-benefits-says-pay-report-1.2902538

Mod-1 day ban

KaneToad · 03-02-2020 01:22AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

.

Corrupt and incompetent? They're considered by many police organisations as one of the best due to not being routinely armed. Again, you're putting each and every single Garda into the same boat, when it's just not true. Would it surprise you to know I was never involved in anything corrupt? Nah, don't believe me, how could I have been, I was a Garda so automatically corrupt yeah?
.

Do you think guards taking 'free' items from shops is corrupt?

KaneToad · 03-02-2020 01:25AM

purifol0 wrote: »

Potential-Monke is an ex piggy with his snout in the troph & thinks that a Gard in his first year should pull in as much as the average private sector worker!

No need for name calling.
It's not really conducive to a factual debate.

mynamejeff · 03-02-2020 01:33AM

purifol0 wrote: »

What makes you think I didn't put my name down? 5000 people apply every time. And amazingly those that do become Gards often come from Garda families themselves. Funny how that happens eh.

Also saying I have an agenda when presented with facts that you cant bull**** your way out of is not a great argument.
Do you think I want to have to rely on a police force as unprofessional corrupt and demonstrably incompetent and as ours?
All those other professionals you mention may be fiddling their books but may tax doesnt go to them now does it.

So you are a bitter failed applicant who is abusing ex gardai on the internet , no agenda there then lol

kinda glad you didn't get that job pal not sure your suited to having any power

Ken. · 03-02-2020 01:36AM

Mod-purifol0 thread banned when s/he returns from their ban.

Potential-Monke · 03-02-2020 01:58AM

KaneToad wrote: »

Do you think guards taking 'free' items from shops is corrupt?

Taking, yes. Being given, no. And it depends on the item. Tea/coffee and perishible goods at 4am where they would be thrown out anyway, I can't see any issue with that. But, as long as it was offered. I would consider it corruption if they just went in and took without being offered, and I know there are/were some Gardai like that.

The local Sergeant (well retired and well before I became a Garda) was renowned to just go into the local shop and take the makings of a fry and other bits. It was accepted at the time, but wouldn't happen today (or at least I haven't heard of it). That was a different time though and it wouldn't/shouldn't happen today.

Myself, I have taken the free tea and pastries on occasion, but as said previously, I stopped just because it was a pain to try explain it, and people would have very closed minds about it. Did I attend calls to that petrol station sooner than others? No. It got responded to in order of priority, as decided by the dispatcher. I looked at the tea/pastries as a simple gesture of goodwill, from a shop worker/manager who deals with enough coonts to a force who deals with (mainly) only coonts.

OwaynOTT · 03-02-2020 01:58AM

much like decaffeinated tea, there’s still a bit of garda in the coffee.

Cookie_Monster · 03-02-2020 06:53AM

Corruption plain and simple. It's one of the basic examples used by NZ police in the recruitment process which I'm going through, you cannot accept free coffees from stores or garages and if caught would be subject to disciplinary procedures.
The perception to the public and to other businesses is very negative, it creates impressions of favoutism and expectations of quid pro quo and also encourages patterns of behaviour that criminals can take advantage of.

Doctor Nick · 03-02-2020 07:33AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I don't agree. There are many, many people out there who have an easy job. I'm in one right now, it's why I'm posting here instead of working (because there's no work to do right now). It's like chalk and cheese compared to the 9 years I was a Garda. No comparison.

30K is well paid? The 'average' wage in Ireland in 2019 was €39k, and it would take a new Garda 5 years to get there, and it increases to the maximum of €52k after 19 years service. Compared to when I joined, it's a lot less than it was. And this 'Golden' pension people keep harping on about, they're taking the figures from the Officer ranks and above. A Garda retiring at 60 (the minimum age, regardless of service) does not have this alleged million euro pension. Jesus, I reckon the young Gardai today will have a massively reduced pension by the time it comes around, what with the way the country is going.

But continue to believe what you want to believe, I don't think anyone will change your mind. Feel free to join though if it's that handy.

60? Is that new? I've a friend who was a member of AGS, he had the option to retire at 55 but stayed on to 57. Has a very nice pension now, gets more than I do. He's been to retirement do's for other members who retired at 55. Don't begrudge them at all for this. Pretty crap job given the sh!t they put up with.

Potential-Monke · 03-02-2020 08:13AM

Doctor Nick wrote: »

60? Is that new? I've a friend who was a member of AGS, he had the option to retire at 55 but stayed on to 57. Has a very nice pension now, gets more than I do. He's been to retirement do's for other members who retired at 55. Don't begrudge them at all for this. Pretty crap job given the sh!t they put up with.

If you joined before April 94 (iirc) you could retire at 55. Anyone joining after that date it was 60. I know this well, because had I stayed I would have the mandatory 30 years done in the late 2030's, but as I would only have been 57 at that time I would have had to work another 3 years before I could retire.

And same as, people don't realise how hard the job is and how much it can take over your life. Days off, holidays, etc, all on the line if a court case comes up. And if a case is pushed back more than once by the state, it gets thrown out, even though it seems criminals can have as many as they need (to a point). I'm also convinced it's one of those jobs you just don't know anything about unless you've worked it.

Corruption does exist, but it's not half as bad as people are making out. You only ever hear of the corruption and problems, no one reports the good things that happen. For example, in Ireland there were 214,414 crimes reported in Q4 of 2018. If corruption was so rife, there would be a lot more reports.

And my word, for what it's worth, is that I didn't see it going on (unless you include the tea/coffee). @Cookie_Monster: I don't know much about the NZ police, but they appear to be a lot more strict. AGS are the same, can't take presents, etc, but tea/coffee if it's been offered for free with no expectation, I don't consider that corruption (indeed, the main guy who worked nights with us in the local Topaz was subsequently arrested for simple possession, so the corruption angle there doesn't fly.

I will also clarify that I was on the regular, so I can't really speak for the other units (crime, drugs, CP, etc). Maybe they had more time to be corrupt, but I doubt it where I was based, we were always busy.

Nicetrustedcup · 03-02-2020 08:28AM

Myself I see no issues giveing a free coffee to a Garda.

My dad years back used to have a contract with the Garda to provide them with fish and chips and who ever they where transferring to jail on the day the same, he got paid once every 3 months I think however he didn’t care as it was extra bussiness and nearly every Garda in the town went to his fish and chips for bussiness and people never gave him crap in the take away due to that.

Know he keeps friendly with the Garda with his new business as he has had issues leavening work late at night as he is a target now for assholes who won’t to rub him little do they know he never has any cash on him

They don’t really get the coffee for free it’s normally a contract with a bussiness in the town

YFlyer · 03-02-2020 09:17AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Taking, yes. Being given, no.

Hahaha

KaneToad · 03-02-2020 10:05AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Taking, yes. Being given, no. .

I would draw no distinction between "taking" and "being given". Both are unethical and corrupt. Albeit at the lower end.

Shops that give out freebies to guards are not doing it for altruistic purposes.

Feisar · 03-02-2020 10:42AM

Not much of a Garda if their only hawk is a cuppa.

Winning_Stroke · 03-02-2020 11:57AM

I worked in a pub during college. Free tea/coffee and sandwiches were given to Gardai during their shift, they got discounted pints off-duty and it was frequently the case that the card was shown after hours in order to get another round in or takeaway beers.

They didn't seem to be any more responsive when called but oh well, I guess it doesn#t work if everyone is lining them with free stuff.

Irish_peppa · 03-02-2020 12:01PM

I used to work in the admissions in Dance Macabre (O Dwyers Mount Street) They would let ALL police / detectives in free of charge. They normally actually flashed the badge. It was ok'd by the GM and the Doormen knew too. Sometimes free coat room too depending on doormen on.:cool:

Green Peter · 03-02-2020 12:24PM

The Garda force is recruited from the general public and people like the posters here. There are a certain percentage of assholes out there and unfortunately the gardai get some of them too but we have no where other than the public to recruit from. I'm a Garda and I've had free cups of tea in houses where I have just cut down their son from the shed rafters or pulled him out of a river, i do apologise for my corruptness but I tend not to be able to say no and walk out the door. Some people seem to value what we do because they may have more insight than others. It will always be the case because while there are many failings by AGS they very often go way beyond the call of duty to help people and the public often don't forget it. I'll take a cup of free coffee if I get it but I won't drive across town for it. I know the next one could be one I don't want in a house where there's devastation but I have it to have to help those around me.

LineOfBeauty · 03-02-2020 12:54PM

I'm sure there are things that are probably worth looking into where it concerns Gardai, particularly those in high office, giving free coffee to a rank and file Garda is categorically not an issue. It's a nice gesture, my brother used to work in a garage on nights, having a Garda presence around, even just to pick up a cup of free coffee, probably made his nights a lot easier and safer.

KaneToad · 03-02-2020 01:31PM

Green Peter wrote: »

I'm a Garda and I've had free cups of tea in houses where I have just cut down their son from the shed rafters or pulled him out of a river, i do apologise for my corruptness but I tend not to be able to say no and walk out the door.

I think you're misunderstanding the situation. It's not the drinking of tea that is corrupt/unethical. It's the taking of free tea/coffee from businesses who are in the business of selling these products to others that is corrupt/unethical.

KaneToad · 03-02-2020 01:35PM

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm sure there are things that are probably worth looking into where it concerns Gardai, particularly those in high office, giving free coffee to a rank and file Garda is categorically not an issue. It's a nice gesture, my brother used to work in a garage on nights, having a Garda presence around, even just to pick up a cup of free coffee, probably made his nights a lot easier and safer.

I disagree. I don't believe that it is a gesture. The garage is giving out inducements so that they get something in return. You say as much yourself in your post. This is not ethical. The guards should not be involved in taking freebies from local businesses... however modest these freebies might be.

Cork Trucker · 03-02-2020 01:36PM

It ain't just with guards either, a former employer i drove for was located near a filling station, we didn't have the biggest fleet in Cork but the frequency of which the trucks were coming in plus the volumes of diesel being sold was high, anyway they used to always give us free tea/coffee and it had a positive knock on effect, all my colleagues gave their custom to the station which was a win win, we've met a few cops there in our time as well, like all of us they are only human beings doing their job, soccer,rubgy, sports in general, a good bit of craic. I don't envy the job they have to do, i certainly wouldn't do it.

LineOfBeauty · 03-02-2020 01:41PM

KaneToad wrote: »

I disagree. I don't believe that it is a gesture. The garage is giving out inducements so that they get something in return. You say as much yourself in your post. This is not ethical. The guards should not be involved in taking freebies from local businesses... however modest these freebies might be.

Literally the time it took you to write this is probably more valuable than the cup of coffee a Garda is getting at like 3am in the morning. It's a small gesture of appreciation for a person doing an extremely difficult job in extremely difficult circumstances, and often it has a positive knock on effect for the young lad/girl working in a fairly exposed environment. I think we can overlook such injustice!

Edgware · 03-02-2020 01:42PM

Postmen often get a free coffee from our receptionist. Does our post get delivered any quicker or slower? No.

Edgware · 03-02-2020 01:45PM

Doctor Nick wrote: »

60? Is that new? I've a friend who was a member of AGS, he had the option to retire at 55 but stayed on to 57. Has a very nice pension now, gets more than I do. He's been to retirement do's for other members who retired at 55. Don't begrudge them at all for this. Pretty crap job given the sh!t they put up with.

Tough job at times and no problem with them getting a coffee etc.
But I wont accept that Gardai, Teachers, Nurses are badly paid.

KaneToad · 03-02-2020 01:52PM

Cork Trucker wrote: »

It ain't just with guards either, a former employer i drove for was located near a filling station, we didn't have the biggest fleet in Cork but the frequency of which the trucks were coming in plus the volumes of diesel being sold was high, anyway they used to always give us free tea/coffee and it had a positive knock on effect, all my colleagues gave their custom to the station which was a win win, we've met a few cops there in our time as well, like all of us they are only human beings doing their job, soccer,rubgy, sports in general, a good bit of craic. I don't envy the job they have to do, i certainly wouldn't do it.

So there was a quid pro quo arrangement between your employer and the garage. You scratched their back and they scratched yours.

I don't think there should be similar arrangements with guards and local businesses. It's unethical. Guards should not be scratching anyone's back.

Green Peter · 03-02-2020 01:54PM

KaneToad wrote:

I think you're misunderstanding the situation. It's not the drinking of tea that is corrupt/unethical. It's the taking of free tea/coffee from businesses who are in the business of selling these products to others that is corrupt/unethical.

I don't see any difference as to me there are no strings attached. In fact I nearly always end up buying something else to go with it that I probably don't really need just to pay for something. My ethics don't hinge on a free cup of coffee.

03-02-2020 01:54PM

Edgware wrote: »

Postmen often get a free coffee from our receptionist. Does our post get delivered any quicker or slower? No.

Even if the postie wanted to, how could they deliver it quicker?

03-02-2020 02:07PM

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

Even if the postie wanted to, how could they deliver it quicker?

Throw it all in the next available letterbox presumably.

Garda free coffee

Comments