West classified as 'region in decline' by EU

[Deleted User] · 29-01-2020 11:26am #1

Fairly shocking that the EU is willing to pay for more than 50% of the cost of some of the projects in the North West and the current government not in a position to make up the difference.

It will hopefully help fast track the M17 heading North and better connections to Enniskillen and Northern Ireland. Maybe eventually it won't be just somewhere for people from the east to have holiday homes dotted everywhere and the conditions are created for more industry to move there.

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2020/01/28/4184933-west-classified-as-regio/

“It is now official, we have a two tier economy, with Dublin and the south of the country classified as a developed region, with the west and north west classified as a region in transition, meaning that the north west of Ireland is declining at a rapid rate and well on its way to becoming an objective one status region.

“Objective one status would classify the west of Ireland as one of the least developed regions in the EU.

“Though the new transition classification will mean better EU co-funding rates for the west of Ireland, the reality is that successive governments have failed to nominate critical infrastructure projects in the west, even in circumstances where in excess of 50% matching funding would be available from the EU.

“The story is the same right across the EU, large tracts of rural Europe are now classified as regions in transition, with their nation states at best indifferent, and at worst, actively impeding the roll out of EU funded infrastructure to their respective rural regions.

“Tourism, CAP and Leader will not reverse rural decline, forestry, industrial wind farms and greenways are not the answer.

“National governments must stop discrimating against our regions and embark on a major extensive multi billion infrastructural investment plan.”

magicbastarder · 29-01-2020 11:35am

how much does the non-nucleated nature of much of the irish population spread in rural areas play into this?

Thelonious Monk · 29-01-2020 11:41am

You have a city and region which has a relatively dense population and all the benefits that brings to companies wishing to locate somewhere, and then you have places like Donegal which looks like someone just jizzed a load of bungalows all over the landscape with zero planning or thought put into it.
How is any kind of industry supposed to thrive in dispersed poorly serviced areas, and how are you supposed to service these areas when no one wants to live in towns or villages?

[Deleted User] · 29-01-2020 11:47am

magicbastarder wrote: »

how much does the non-nucleated nature of much of the irish population spread in rural areas play into this?

Quite a bit id say. But unless better links to the major towns/cities are created and conditions for employment are created/maintained then it will only get worse.

It took a combined effort from Allergan/Baxter/Coke/Hollister (Almost 5k jobs)to lobby the government to improve the N5 as their product was been damaged due to the conditions of the transport roads. That should never, never have been required to do.
I expect the adequate freight rail infrastructure was not there in the first place.

Not taking advantage of EU funding to maintain/improve the infrastructure in the region is disappointing.

The councils do need to tighten up and it should be impossible to build countryside holiday homes in the region.

The fastest transatlantic fibre link lands in Killala, it also has ample renewable energy. Why has the government not ensured there is infrastructure there for Data centers to relocate there, or at least incentive's for them to move west.

[Deleted User] · 29-01-2020 11:49am

there's a bit of cart-before-horse, or at least assumptions at play here lads

plenty would move west and live in a town were there jobs to be had, there isn't and successive governments have done nothing to change that.

Thelonious Monk · 29-01-2020 11:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

there's a bit of cart-before-horse, or at least assumptions at play here lads

plenty would move west and live in a town were there jobs to be had, there isn't and successive governments have done nothing to change that.

What kind of companies do you think would relocate there?

ncounties · 29-01-2020 11:55am

I'm from the North West, so feel I am allowed to comment harshly on this. Not everywhere on this island can be a Dublin or Belfast. If you want to live in a small "idylic" [hah!] villiage, 30kms from your nearest town, that's fine, but don't expect high speed broadband, public transport services, or a massive high paying employer in said area.

Investment should be concentrated on infrastructure in Dublin, between Dublin and our regional cities, and links with our regional cities and their immediate environs. Everything else should be left to natural evolution. We can help this if we stop granting permission for one off dwellings, and developments further than a kilometre from an existing town or villiage.

CrabRevolution · 29-01-2020 11:56am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You have a city and region which has a relatively dense population and all the benefits that brings to companies wishing to locate somewhere, and then you have places like Donegal which looks like someone just jizzed a load of bungalows all over the landscape with zero planning or thought put into it.
How is any kind of industry supposed to thrive in dispersed poorly serviced areas, and how are you supposed to service these areas when no one wants to live in towns or villages?

Pretty much this. My parents have been doing a lot of travelling Ireland and the world the last few years as we kids have grown up and gotten jobs. My mother seems easily impressed as they seem to have yet to have a bad trip, and apparently everywhere on earth is beautiful.

The only exception seems to have been Donegal. Food, hotel, people etc. were all lovely, but they said it's actually an unpleasant county to look at because they've just built everywhere. Houses just thrown everywhere, along every road and field and along every beach.

I know that's not scientific evidence for anything but it's telling that in a country full of one off housing, my parents (who wouldn't even recognise terms like "dispersed population" or "ribbon development") still noticed the excessive sprawl in Donegal. I'd imagine a proper, evidence based survey of this and its effects on industry and quality of life would be damning.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:01pm

I don't see what dispersed housing has got to do with government not investing money into roads and jobs?

We don't want jobs delivered to our front door. We'll drive to the nearest town to work!

Thelonious Monk · 29-01-2020 12:02pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't see what dispersed housing has got to do with government not investing money into roads and jobs?

We don't want jobs delivered to our front door. We'll drive to the nearest town to work!

What kind of companies do you think would want to relocate to these places?

magicbastarder · 29-01-2020 12:02pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

The only exception seems to have been Donegal. Food, hotel, people etc. were all lovely, but they said it's actually an unpleasant county to look at because they've just built everywhere. Houses just thrown everywhere, along every road and field and along every beach.

we were in donegal a few years ago, and went to gweedore to try to find a place to stay on spec. drove away again in a huff, the place is an unmitigated disaster. if you want to eat somewhere different to the actual hotel you're staying in, you've probably got a mile long walk.
we drove to ardara instead, which is a lovely spot.

[Deleted User] · 29-01-2020 12:03pm

ncounties wrote: »

I'm from the North West, so feel I am allowed to comment harshly on this. Not everywhere on this island can be a Dublin or Belfast. If you want to live in a small "idylic" [hah!] villiage, 30kms from your nearest town, that's fine, but don't expect high speed broadband, public transport services, or a massive high paying employer in said area.

Investment should be concentrated on infrastructure in Dublin, between Dublin and our regional cities, and links with our regional cities and their immediate environs. Everything else should be left to natural evolution. We can help this if we stop granting permission for one off dwellings, and developments further than a kilometre from an existing town or villiage.

Dublin can't handle the jobs it has. There is not the staff or the accommodation for them.
Sligo, Castlebar, Carrick, Roscommon, Ballina, are all reasonably sized towns. They have the personnel(dependent on position) and accommodation available. You are literally talking a few hundred jobs to improve places like these. The high skilled % required could be refilled by attracting those that left for Dublin to come back. It would regenerate all these towns fairly quickly. For the past 10 years it appears to be to shove all jobs to Dublin even if they can't take them. If further tax breaks are required it should be look at.

magicbastarder · 29-01-2020 12:04pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't see what dispersed housing has got to do with government not investing money into roads and jobs?

dispersed houses are more expensive to provide services to. post, electricity, broadband, etc.

i will try to dig it out, but i once read that ireland uses four times as much miles of copper per capita in providing electricity to domestic customers than in the UK.

CrabRevolution · 29-01-2020 12:07pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I don't see what dispersed housing has got to do with government not investing money into roads and jobs?

We don't want jobs delivered to our front door. We'll drive to the nearest town to work!

But then they'll give out when the local village pub, shop and post office close because everyone lives out the country and drives to the nearest town to do their living and shopping. Also it makes it impossible to provide public transport because everyone is spread out and drives everywhere anyway.

And what jobs can the government create? People love to talk about "moving jobs out of Dublin" but companies can't be forced to move or set up in a given spot.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:08pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What kind of companies do you think would want to relocate to these places?

Maybe the likes of Pramerica and Optum in Letterkenny.

Or E&I Engineering in Burnfoot in Donegal. Basically a village.

Or Abbott in Donegal town and Sligo.

Maybe even include Seagate Technology in Derry, often left out of NI investment just like the nw.

There are certain employers willing to come to these parts, don't see why others wouldn't be interested if the government will was there.

But I think they prefer to bring them to the big cities first.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:10pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

And what jobs can the government create? People love to talk about "moving jobs out of Dublin" but companies can't be forced to move or set up in a given spot.

The government agencies in Ireland are excellent at job creation. They have brought plenty of big companies to areas outside Dublin. If the will was there to bring a few more to the nw, they could do it.

I just don't think the will is there.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:14pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

But then they'll give out when the local village pub, shop and post office close because everyone lives out the country and drives to the nearest town to do their living and shopping.

Sorry but this is wrong.

We can still live in our small villages and towns and drive to work.

I do it and I know plenty that do as well.

Just because a big employer is in your nearest town doesn't mean you have to live there.

My commute is a lot shorter than many thousands travelling into Dublin every day.

CrabRevolution · 29-01-2020 12:16pm

NIMAN wrote: »

The government agencies in Ireland are excellent at job creation. They have brought plenty of big companies to areas outside Dublin. If the will was there to bring a few more to the nw, they could do it.

I just don't think the will is there.

I think that's the major part of this argument. People assume the government is all powerful and tells these companies where to set up. It's a tough realisation that 90% of companies just don't want to set up in these places. Some do, and that's great, but the notion that the company makes no decisions by themselves and it's all the government's doing is ridiculous.

The IDA and government would love nothing more than major companies to set up in the rest of the country.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:17pm

I think there is definitely a bias against certain parts of the country by a lot of people.

Have you ever looked at the maps showing main roads, railways etc to the nw? It's embarrassing and shows a total lack of investment by the government for decades.

I'm not looking for a bus to my front door, or a train. But one to the nearest big town would be a nice option to have.

ncounties · 29-01-2020 12:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Dublin can't handle the jobs it has. There is not the staff or the accommodation for them.
Sligo, Castlebar, Carrick, Roscommon, Ballina, are all reasonably sized towns. They have the personnel(dependent on position) and accommodation available. You are literally talking a few hundred jobs to improve places like these. The high skilled % required could be refilled by attracting those that left for Dublin to come back. It would regenerate all these towns fairly quickly. For the past 10 years it appears to be to shove all jobs to Dublin even if they can't take them. If further tax breaks are required it should be look at.

And yet the businesses continue to locate there, and companies continue to function. If you want to reverse the "decline" in the west or north west, you concentrate FDI in the regional cities. Derry, Sligo, Galway, Limerick. Then you concentrate infrastructure development in said places.

There is a finite number of companies and a finite transport budget - this can't be spread across every single settlement in the country.

ncounties · 29-01-2020 12:22pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I think there is definitely a bias against certain parts of the country by a lot of people.

Have you ever looked at the maps showing main roads, railways etc to the nw? It's embarrassing and shows a total lack of investment by the government for decades.

I'm not looking for a bus to my front door, or a train. But one to the nearest big town would be a nice option to have.

Look at the WRC - it doesn't work.

CrankyHaus · 29-01-2020 12:24pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The fastest transatlantic fibre link lands in Killala, it also has ample renewable energy. Why has the government not ensured there is infrastructure there for Data centers to relocate there, or at least incentive's for them to move west.

Apple's ill fated Athenry Data Centre may dissuade anyone else considering building one in the West, particularly as the Facebook one in Clonee flew up during the same period.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:26pm

There seems to be a 100% belief that all companies are saying "we want to be in Dublin and nowhere else".

How do people know this?

ncounties · 29-01-2020 12:32pm

NIMAN wrote: »

There seems to be a 100% belief that all companies are saying "we want to be in Dublin and nowhere else".

How do people know this?

Because the vast number of them are located there.

johnmcdnl · 29-01-2020 12:34pm

There's plenty of people living in Dublin, Cork or Galway who'd be more than happy to move back to their one off house in the middle of the sticks with average broadband, happy to have just a small school, and more than happy to live without the 100s of other services that cities provide and would be delighted to have a 20-30 min drive to the closest major town for work.
Even if you had to give up the one of housing and move to the towns, you'd still do that and be closer to home. Having family close by helps with childcare and of course just generally good being home close to family and friends.

However the reality is though for anyone with any ambition of working in any sort of major business there's simply no opportunities so you drift off to the city and come home less and less over the years and the longer you do this the less hope you ever see of having a future in the region.

There's plenty of young people in there 20s and 30s who would move home and relieve the pressure on Dublin it there was an opportunity but we just don't see it. So we'll probably settle and buy in Dublin and set our roots.

Of course it's a chicken and egg situation because so few major employers will setup in the region due to the lack of skilled employees who have left, and none of the skilled employees will move back without opportunities.

ncounties · 29-01-2020 12:38pm

johnmcdnl wrote: »

There's plenty of people living in Dublin, Cork or Galway who'd be more than happy to move back to their one off house in the middle of the sticks with average broadband, happy to have just a small school, and more than happy to live without the 100s of other services that cities provide and would be delighted to have a 20-30 min drive to the closest major town for work.
Even if you had to give up the one of housing and move to the towns, you'd still do that and be closer to home. Having family close by helps with childcare and of course just generally good being home close to family and friends.

However the reality is though for anyone with any ambition of working in any sort of major business there's simply no opportunities so you drift off to the city and come home less and less over the years and the longer you do this the less hope you ever see of having a future in the region.

There's plenty of young people in there 20s and 30s who would move home and relieve the pressure on Dublin it there was an opportunity but we just don't see it. So we'll probably settle and buy in Dublin and set our roots.

Of course it's a chicken and egg situation because so few major employers will setup in the region due to the lack of skilled employees who have left, and none of the skilled employees will move back without opportunities.

Im 29 and live in Dublin because its a large multicultural city, with lots of jobs, further education opportunities and clubs to enjoy. 20 mins from my house is one of the largest airports in Europe, which means I can go for a city break of a weekend, and not have to take the Friday off. If my company relocated to my hometown, with the same salary and benefits, I would stay in Dublin.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:39pm

ncounties wrote: »

Because the vast number of them are located there.

Doesn't address the point.

Maybe they are being told Dublin is the only option?

I know for a fact that a guy wanted to locate in Derry but when he approached Invest NI he was given a list of 5 or 6 potential sites, all in Belfast.

There is bias in gov agencies too.

Zebra3 · 29-01-2020 12:39pm

I don't think many US business executives would fancy the idea of a four drive from Dublin to Donegal after a transatlantic flight to visit their Irish factory.

May have something to do with it.

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:40pm

Are people saying the EU is wrong by the way?

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:41pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

I don't think many US business executives would fancy the idea of a four drive from Dublin to Donegal after a transatlantic flight to visit their Irish factory.

May have something to do with it.

Then how come there are US companies in Derry, Letterkenny, Donegal town and Sligo already then?

NIMAN · 29-01-2020 12:43pm

ncounties wrote: »

Im 29 and live in Dublin because its a large multicultural city, with lots of jobs, further education opportunities and clubs to enjoy. 20 mins from my house is one of the largest airports in Europe, which means I can go for a city break of a weekend, and not have to take the Friday off. If my company relocated to my hometown, with the same salary and benefits, I would stay in Dublin.

Anecdotal.
Others might relocate home.

West classified as 'region in decline' by EU

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