It's GDPR gone mad, so it is

topper75 · 29-01-2020 11:38AM

F34 wrote: »

Some jobsworth in the HSE being an ass more than anything.

Didn’t the OPW have some lemon try to outlaw visitor books until they were told to cop on.

And the jobsworth and lemon can't be named because, yes, you've guessed.

They have you every which way the cnuts!

Bonzo Delaney · 29-01-2020 11:42AM

The main issue is that the Administratior of the what's app group has no way of editing or deleting , offensive or material of no importance to the group .

lawred2 · 29-01-2020 11:46AM

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

The main issue is that the Administratior of the what's app group has no way of editing or deleting , offensive or material of no importance to the group .

I can see how that could cause concern alright

El Weirdo · 29-01-2020 12:03PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But there is no way to hide your number in a WhatsApp group

Pretty sure you can hide your information in the privacy settings in the app.

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

The main issue is that the Administratior of the what's app group has no way of editing or deleting , offensive or material of no importance to the group .

What has that got to do with GDPR?

Dravokivich · 29-01-2020 12:12PM

Dial Hard wrote: »

If you don't use WhatsApp then you can't be added to any groups or contacted through it. You simply don't appear in the phone book if you don't have the app downloaded and set up. You don't exist as far as WhatsApp is concerned.

It's not about the phone number. It's not about Whatsapp either, you can talk about viber instead. GDPR concerns with it come down to identifiable information shared through and retained by a 3rd party service, that one doesn't engage in.

seamus · 29-01-2020 12:29PM

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Both examples sound like either a poor understanding of GDPR or using it as an excuse for laziness.

It's both. It's laziness based on wilful ignorance of GDPR, and I called it out back when there was the hysteria about GDPR being introduced.

I know exactly how these conversations go because I've been involved in a million of them.

"They want us to publish a list of <x>"

"Hmm. Do we even have that info?"

"Not all of it anyway, it'll take a while to collect"

"Wait - isn't there a GDPR issue here?"

"Oh yeah, there must be. Grand so, I'll tell them we can't do it cos of GDPR".

My wife was at the kids' swimming lessons last year and overheard a conversation between a mother and the young one at reception desk;

"What do you mean his place is gone? Nobody told me that a new term had started and fees were due"

"You need to be here at the start of term to pay the fees"

"Yeah, but when did you tell us that the term was starting? I didn't get any email"

"We don't send out emails"

"What?! How are we supposed to know what's going on? Why don't you send out an email to let people know that the term is starting?"

"Oh you know, we can't. GDPR, child protection and all that stuff, you know."

"I'm a child protection officer with Tusla. And no, I don't know what you're talking about. Why can't you send out an email?"

"Uh...I don't know. We just don't".

The GAA thing is just another example of "GDPR" being a convenient excuse. The GAA don't like whatsapp because there have been a number of high-profile incidents of drunken shenanigans being shared on group chats used by GAA teams. Orgies, drugs, nudity, etc etc.

There have also been incidents of players (and coaches!) accidentally sending nude selfies and inappropriate content to GAA group chats, sometimes ones with the parents of young kids.

The GAA want to move off whatsapp to avoid this kind of thing happening in future.

beauf · 29-01-2020 12:30PM

It's a relatively crude app. You'd think they would have added more features by now.

beauf · 29-01-2020 12:39PM

A feature where yo can broadcast only from the admin, but reply only privately to the admin is whats needed.

On some sports teams we use, it amazing how much noise people create on lists with nonsense replies.
Also people are telling the world they are not available due to holidays etc. Basically an empty gaff.

lawred2 · 29-01-2020 02:00PM

beauf wrote: »

A feature where yo can broadcast only from the admin, but reply only privately to the admin is whats needed..

That's what the kids school have.. class dojo or something

Dial Hard · 29-01-2020 02:15PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's not about the phone number. It's not about Whatsapp either, you can talk about viber instead. GDPR concerns with it come down to identifiable information shared through and retained by a 3rd party service, that one doesn't engage in.

But if you don't use the service they don't have access to any information about you whatsoever, that's the point.

If I have WhatsApp (or Viber, or whatever) and you don't, then I can't text you through them, or add you to a group or basically do anything at all to interact with you on it because as far as they're concerned, you don't exist. There's no information on you for them to retain.

Yurt2 · 29-01-2020 02:50PM

I can't wait to see what antics St. Patrick's of Ballyragget get up to on the new GAA messaging app.

29-01-2020 03:01PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I understand perfectly well.

Call the number and the operator will talk you thru getting things started vs running around like a headless chook looking for a piece of equipment which you likely don't know how to use and may not have access to. ( The people who do have access already know where the equipment is, they don't need the HSE to tell them.)

Because you always getting warning signs right? And the ambulance is always only 5 mins away? This is cardiac arrest, not just a heart attack :rolleyes:

Almost all defis that are accessible nowadays are designed so that they can be used by any untrained person.. there are diagrams to show the positioning of the electrodes, the units are capable of diagnosing the patient and will advise the user on the need for a shock, audibly. All you need to do is make sure everyone stands clear and push the button, the unit will then carry out another diagnosis and inform you when another shock is necessary. Being trained first is of course better, but the point of them is that they are as easy to use as possible as it's the actual difference between life and death.

And yes though of us who are trained do need some way of knowing where the nearest defi is, incase it happens to a stranger in public. There could be literally one right around the corner but we can't know unless it's noted somewhere online. CPR will more or less only delay the onset of brain damage by providing oxygen, the chances of it actually restarting the circulation are actually pretty low iirc, it's quick defibrillation that saves lives.

kippy · 29-01-2020 03:21PM

GDPR is an absolute disaster for voluntary and semi voluntary organisations and/or sports groups. These groups do not have the infrastructure or people to implement the myriad of requirements.

WhatsApp in the GAA is an interesting one. WA has been used for years now as a cheap and effective method of communicating with members. The biggest issue with it was the daft responses to all that could come back to all members of the group but WA have added a setting that only the group admin can send to the group.
This cuts out a lot of nonsense, still allows the member to reply to the group admin only and stops accidental and sometimes embarassing/inappropriate accidental messages going to the whole group.

The other issue is the exposure of all contact details to the whole group and the lack of the "organisation" being able to respond to a SAR from a member who wants to see all communications between them and the club. This is something allowed for under GDPR and is something that cannot be done with WhatsApp.

As for the third party having the contact details of people and/or storing data that people havent agreed to - you basicilly agree to this once you sign up with WhatsApp and most folks may already use WA for other comms.

The GAA have been trying to launch their own platform for messaging for years and it's never been functional. It may be getting there but will rely on a hell of a lot of backend admin for club officials to setup and maintain as well changes to the registration process (on a registration platform that's still lacks some functionality)

At the moment, everything is about ticking boxes, getting a message out, but ignoring the realities on the ground.

Bonzo Delaney · 29-01-2020 03:57PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

El Weirdo wrote: »

What has that got to do with GDPR?

Absolutely feck all.
But its one of the main reasons the GAA is requesting the app to be droped as communication tool for mentors and parents

Brock Turnpike · 29-01-2020 04:06PM

Was genuinely annoyed upon hearing the GAA story on the radio this morning. Smacks of them either not understanding GDPR or simply wanting to promote their own app for messaging. It's likely the latter.

29-01-2020 04:09PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Was genuinely annoyed upon hearing the GAA story on the radio this morning. Smacks of them either not understanding GDPR or simply wanting to promote their own app for messaging. It's likely the latter.

As someone who works in information security I would bet this months rent on the GAAs app being the most insecure thing out there.

PARlance · 29-01-2020 04:24PM

beauf wrote: »

A feature where yo can broadcast only from the admin, but reply only privately to the admin is whats needed.

On some sports teams we use, it amazing how much noise people create on lists with nonsense replies.
Also people are telling the world they are not available due to holidays etc. Basically an empty gaff.

There are already solutions out there.

Our kids school uses Aladdin, a one way communication tool and then there's apps like Heja, an almost one way communication tools for sports teams where you select yes or no for upcoming events and only the admins see the list.

Even the likes of Teamer has been around for the guts of 10 years.

kippy · 29-01-2020 04:32PM

PARlance wrote: »

There are already solutions out there.

Our kids school uses Aladdin, a one way communication tool and then there's apps like Heja, an almost one way communication tools for sports teams where you select yes or no for upcoming events and only the admins see the list.

Even the likes of Teamer has been around for the guts of 10 years.

The GAA believe that any communication between the "organisation" and the "individual" need to have the ability to be audited, should the member make a SAR.
I think that is the primary concern with most of those apps coupled with the required functionality of the various groups involved.
They are attempting to build the functionality into their membership platform.

kippy · 29-01-2020 04:34PM

beauf wrote: »

A feature where yo can broadcast only from the admin, but reply only privately to the admin is whats needed.

On some sports teams we use, it amazing how much noise people create on lists with nonsense replies.
Also people are telling the world they are not available due to holidays etc. Basically an empty gaff.

This is available within WhatsApp but is not necessarily the answer.

blackbox · 29-01-2020 07:16PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Was genuinely annoyed upon hearing the GAA story on the radio this morning. Smacks of them either not understanding GDPR or simply wanting to promote their own app for messaging. It's likely the latter.

If you sign up for WhatsApp you have to give WhatsApp access to your phone book - including numbers in it that are not on WhatsApp. I can understand why people may not want to do this. They may also want to restrict who can see their own number.

I use WhatsApp myself but I can accept that people may not like their terms but may still want to receive communication from a club.

Regarding the defibs, I don't see an issue if the owners consent.

Blowheads · 29-01-2020 07:35PM

So let me delete my WhatsApp group and then what, telephone or text the parents of kids for every match and session, updates etc. I'd spend a full day to inform them of a match and then it probably gets cancelled

Honestly the fooooook...

Then the cheek of them, don't do this n that but absolutely no alternative given. Cant support grass root clubs with basic equipment while raking in millions in gate receipts

beauf · 29-01-2020 08:05PM

Of course they could just put the information about matches and training on the website.

scamalert · 29-01-2020 08:15PM

sounds more like a way to pi$$ away more money on useless crap, few years back when it wasnt in place no one was bothered now you have people in PI making **** stories and complaints because someone shared and email with their name, we make progress in tech but as law goes seems each year we go back few decades as people are dumb as never before, any tiny issue turns into debates about courts and personal harm :cool: yet same ones will let u know once they go on holidays, where they stay what they eat and share their entire day on line for decades to be stored :pac:

kippy · 29-01-2020 10:01PM

https://kfmradio.com/news/29012020-1830/listen-dpc-says-use-whatsapp-groups-sporting-organisations-does-not-breach-gdppr

kippy · 29-01-2020 10:02PM

beauf wrote: »

Of course they could just put the information about matches and training on the website.

You've obviously never been involved in any level of organisation of sporting groups.

29-01-2020 11:00PM

beauf wrote: »

Of course they could just put the information about matches and training on the website.

Exactly, free wordpress account. No technical knowledge required, update the site with match times.

Im a member of a couple of WhatsApp groups and its so hard to moderate what people post.

I can understand, a club group, with teenage boys and or their mothers, someone gets cut from the team and next thing you know they are posting porn to the channel.

kippy · 30-01-2020 12:16AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly, free wordpress account. No technical knowledge required, update the site with match times.

Im a member of a couple of WhatsApp groups and its so hard to moderate what people post.

I can understand, a club group, with teenage boys and or their mothers, someone gets cut from the team and next thing you know they are posting porn to the channel.

Another person not that familiar with the requirements.
Club's and groups need to be able, on occasion, to illicit responses from a group, say the under 12 parents. Who can attend the match training, who can volunteer for this or that job, to advise of a change or cancellation of a fixture etc etc
There are many situations where: put the fixtures up on a website just isn't enough. (Most club's are doing this by the way but not necessarily at the younger levels)
Suggesting that solution impliess you have no idea of the requirements throughout a club for the various communication between it and it's stakeholders.
It's possible to lock down WhatsApp groups somewhat so only the admins can post to the group, but anyone in the group can directly reply to an admin which cuts down on the potential for dodgy messages.

beauf · 30-01-2020 02:14AM

kippy wrote: »

You've obviously never been involved in any level of organisation of sporting groups.

I'd say there's about parents of about 200 kids in the whats apps I'm currently involved in.
I'm still amazed how many will reply "ok" or "thanks" to a message that requires no reply, and this happens at least 3 times a week.
Its also pretty often someone posts something a personal message by accident to the wider group.
People also don't realize they can just message the admin with questions directly. They don't need to be on the main groups chat.

kippy · 30-01-2020 07:41AM

beauf wrote: »

I'd say there's about parents of about 200 kids in the whats apps I'm currently involved in.
I'm still amazed how many will reply "ok" or "thanks" to a message that requires no reply, and this happens at least 3 times a week.
Its also pretty often someone posts something a personal message by accident to the wider group.
People also don't realize they can just message the admin with questions directly. They don't need to be on the main groups chat.

It's possible to configure a WA group to restrict that behaviour. Either way, one to many with the option of one to one communication is needed.

prunudo · 30-01-2020 08:31AM

In the book of excuses, GDPR is the new H&S or insurance as a reason not to do something or generally not being ar$ed to be helpful.

It's GDPR gone mad, so it is

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