President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

MonkeyTennis · 28-01-2020 04:44PM

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I think its bloody obvious Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son.. It's all straightforward the democrats are using this to try get rid of Trump and there new ploy. They failed with the Mueller investigation. this is the next thing. We know Biden demanded the Ukraine government get rid of an official when he was in office; he confirms this on video. He demanded something, before he would hand over aid to Ukraine. Both parties are guilty of strong arming Ukraine to do their bidding.

One of them was open and part of policy the other hidden and FOR PERSONAL GAIN ..any talk of Trump being a champion of anticorruption came as part of the cover up and quite frankly laughable

kilns · 28-01-2020 04:53PM

Trump has just tweeted a tirade against Fox News, this looks to spiraling quickly

Billy Mays · 28-01-2020 04:57PM

Fox News are now part of #theresistance apparently

ohnonotgmail · 28-01-2020 05:05PM

kilns wrote: »

Trump has just tweeted a tirade against Fox News, this looks to spiraling quickly

Billy Mays wrote: »

Fox News are now part of #theresistance apparently

Fox news had a poll the other day where 50% of respondents supported impeaching Trump. the end may be nigh.

Stallingrad · 28-01-2020 05:10PM

He sees Fox as a rival to the future Trump TV, which will broadcast 24/7 from cell block H.

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 05:20PM

Stallingrad wrote: »

He sees Fox as a rival to the future Trump TV, which will broadcast 24/7 from cell block H.

Reporting from 55 Ulitsa Savushkina, Saint Petersburg?

Cheerful Spring2 · 28-01-2020 05:21PM

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

One of them was open and part of policy the other hidden and FOR PERSONAL GAIN ..any talk of Trump being a champion of anticorruption came as part of the cover up and quite frankly laughable

Would Irish people be ok with English politician demanding the dismissal of a minister in politics? Ukraine was happy to keep this official on, it was the US who demanded they fire him, and they, merely got rid of him over money they seriously required. It still foreign interference in another country affairs.
While I don't think Trump opinions are true, the Ukrainians were investigating Biden son, i do see info, the Ukrainians were examining the Ukraine company that hired Biden son.

The company was under investigation for corruption. Why did the company-select Biden Son who had no background in this field of work? Who made the approach? I don't believe, his son got a very large salary for his charm and sale skills, they obviously thought having the Vice President son on board would help them out in some way?

Trump corrupt we have recognized that since he took office. Blame the voters for his win, they looked passed all this and went to the polls and made him President. I think democrats overlook 60 million voters care little about his racism, sexism and tax records, and this show happening right now, unlikely to change their minds about him if still there.

ohnonotgmail · 28-01-2020 05:25PM

notobtuse wrote: »

Reporting from 55 Ulitsa Savushkina, Saint Petersburg?

somewhere in Saudi Arabia more like.

28-01-2020 05:40PM

Australian Open 2020 wrote: »

Trump had perfectly good reason to ask Zelensky to investigate Biden for the interest of the United States of America. Of course anyone can speculate that he also did it for personal gain. But you have to be able to prove that. Trump is too smart for the Democrats, he creates traps for them to jump into.

Your Rereg names are becoming related and predictable.

Boggles · 28-01-2020 06:01PM

Billy Mays wrote: »

Fox News are now part of #theresistance apparently

When he is calling his propaganda channel pathetic you just know he is in trouble.

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 06:01PM

Five members of Joe Biden’s family got rich since he became vice president (Joe’s son Hunter, son-in-law Howard, brothers James and Frank, and sister Valerie). Not to mention many millions of dollars coming from US taxpayer funds for companies they started up (after Joe was assigned to oversee operations in several countries) and went bust (mostly because of having no background in). No conflicts of interest… nothing to see here… please move along?

Boggles · 28-01-2020 06:09PM

notobtuse wrote: »

Five members of Joe Biden’s family got rich since he became vice president (Joe’s son Hunter, son-in-law Howard, brothers James and Frank, and sister Valerie). Not to mention many millions of dollars coming from US taxpayer funds for companies they started up (after Joe was assigned to oversee operations in several countries) and went bust (mostly because of having no background in). No conflicts of interest… nothing to see here… please move along?

How's Trumps family doing since he took office?

woohoo!!! · 28-01-2020 06:23PM

Rudys son has questions to answer.
https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/1222168782505938944?s=19

Gwen Cooper · 28-01-2020 06:27PM

I think that Ivanka forgot who her father is for a little while:

https://twitter.com/IvankaTrump/status/1222126462347681793

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 06:28PM

Boggles wrote: »

How's Trumps family doing since he took office?

Since many have taken hits as a result of Trump hatred... I'd say worse.

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 06:30PM

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Rudys son has questions to answer.
https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/1222168782505938944?s=19

Does he make that much per month?

Boggles · 28-01-2020 06:30PM

notobtuse wrote: »

Since many have taken hits as a result of Trump hatred... I'd say worse.

Trump does seem to hate Tiffany all right.

Quin_Dub · 28-01-2020 06:32PM

notobtuse wrote: »

Five members of Joe Biden’s family got rich since he became vice president (Joe’s son Hunter, son-in-law Howard, brothers James and Frank, and sister Valerie). Not to mention many millions of dollars coming from US taxpayer funds for companies they started up (after Joe was assigned to oversee operations in several countries) and went bust (mostly because of having no background in). No conflicts of interest… nothing to see here… please move along?

At the risk of repetition - The question is not whether or not there is a case to be answered by the extended Biden clan , there may well be. Hunter Biden certainly seems to be a fairly feckless unpleasant "rich kid" type based on the various evidence about him in the public arena.

The question is and always will be - Why did Trump decide to go after Biden when and how he did?

Biden and Ukraine had been discussed at various levels for several years yet Trump only decided it was something worth investigating after Biden announced his candidacy , aka -When Biden might impact Trump , not the US , Trump.

He also chose not to use the official channels even though Bill Barr was in place and has been shown to be more than happy to entertain judicial fishing expeditions on Trumps behalf.

Those are the questions that prompted the Quid Pro Quo, not whether Hunter Biden earned his salary or if Joe Biden helped him out.

For example, an equally self serving action was the infamous "Voter Fraud" investigation which was designed solely to make Trump feel better about losing the popular vote (with a bit of future voter suppression thrown in) and had no basis in fact or reality - As borne out by its complete and utter failure to find a single shred of evidence.

Despite that being utterly self serving, Impeachment wasn't discussed after that because he followed the rules and at least tried to make it look like a real legitimate thing.

He did none of that in Ukraine so any pretense of it being about anything other than helping Donald Trump fails even the most cursory of reviews.

Maybe he should have kept a few of those "adults in the room" about the place to protect him from his own stupidity and hubris.

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 06:34PM

Boggles wrote: »

Trump does seem to hate Tiffany all right.

Can't handle that the truth of the answer to the question wasn't what you were looking for, eh?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-businesses-take-a-hit-as-the-brand-has-lost-its-mojo-2018-12-23

weisses · 28-01-2020 06:50PM

notobtuse wrote: »

Can't handle that the truth to of the answer to the question wasn't what you were looking for, eh?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-businesses-take-a-hit-as-the-brand-has-lost-its-mojo-2018-12-23

Truth is that he is destroying his own business because of the brand name... His antics since taking office has a lot to do with it ... PEople don't want to be associated with the name Trump ... Can't blame them

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 07:01PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

At the risk of repetition - The question is not whether or not there is a case to be answered by the extended Biden clan , there may well be. Hunter Biden certainly seems to be a fairly feckless unpleasant "rich kid" type based on the various evidence about him in the public arena.

The question is and always will be - Why did Trump decide to go after Biden when and how he did?

Biden and Ukraine had been discussed at various levels for several years yet Trump only decided it was something worth investigating after Biden announced his candidacy , aka -When Biden might impact Trump , not the US , Trump.

He also chose not to use the official channels even though Bill Barr was in place and has been shown to be more than happy to entertain judicial fishing expeditions on Trumps behalf.

Those are the questions that prompted the Quid Pro Quo, not whether Hunter Biden earned his salary or if Joe Biden helped him out.

For example, an equally self serving action was the infamous "Voter Fraud" investigation which was designed solely to make Trump feel better about losing the popular vote (with a bit of future voter suppression thrown in) and had no basis in fact or reality - As borne out by its complete and utter failure to find a single shred of evidence.

Despite that being utterly self serving, Impeachment wasn't discussed after that because he followed the rules and at least tried to make it look like a real legitimate thing.

He did none of that in Ukraine so any pretense of it being about anything other than helping Donald Trump fails even the most cursory of reviews.

Maybe he should have kept a few of those "adults in the room" about the place to protect him from his own stupidity and hubris.

US Presidents have broad authority to condition aid to a foreign nation... even to delay it if there are concerns that it will not be used for its intended purposes. That is Trump’s (and any president's) power as president. Trump held up the money because of concerns over corruption. Efforts to help end corruption in Ukraine were objectives of both the Obama and Trump administrations. Foreign assistance programs are often held back and conditioned to ensure that systems are in place to prevent corruption. The real issue is not that Trump held up the money, but that he first should have (pursuant to the Impoundment Act) asked for the funds to be redirected. But he did not do this. It’s a slap on the wrist offense, but in no way an impeachable one.

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 07:04PM

weisses wrote: »

Truth is that he is destroying his own business because of the brand name... His antics since taking office has a lot to do with it ... PEople don't want to be associated with the name Trump ... Can't blame them

Okay, and some truth to it. But the poster I was responding to was hinting that Trump businesses and family members were doing great financially (like the Biden family) merely because he became president... which is not true.

Boggles · 28-01-2020 07:04PM

notobtuse wrote: »

Trump held up the money because of concerns over corruption.

You need to move forward, not even his defense team are really trying to sell that bucket of horse shít anymore.

Igotadose · 28-01-2020 07:15PM

notobtuse wrote: »

Okay, and some truth to it. But the poster I was responding to was hinting that Trump businesses and family members were doing great financially (like the Biden family) merely because he became president... which is not true.

You're not taking the Biden family finances stuff from Peter Schweizer's drivel, are you? Joe Biden himself hasn't got that much money versus, say, the grifters that surround the Donald

Billy Mays · 28-01-2020 07:25PM

I must've imagined all those times Trump has visited and stayed in his numerous properties since he became president.

Sure he made a nice few quid out of Pence's visit to Ireland when he stayed in Doonbeg despite it being nearly 300km from Dublin where he was conducting business.

Not benefiting from his presidency financially :pac: :pac:

The gullibility of Trumpers :rolleyes:

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 07:33PM

Igotadose wrote: »

You're not taking the Biden family finances stuff from Peter Schweizer's drivel, are you?

Why yes I did… and also from Ben Schreckinger and Ryan Grim. I like to see corroborating information on a subject before commenting on it… unlike others here.

Quin_Dub · 28-01-2020 07:42PM

notobtuse wrote: »

US Presidents have broad authority to condition aid to a foreign nation... even to delay it if there are concerns that it will not be used for its intended purposes. That is Trump’s (and any president's) power as president. Trump held up the money because of concerns over corruption. Efforts to help end corruption in Ukraine were objectives of both the Obama and Trump administrations. Foreign assistance programs are often held back and conditioned to ensure that systems are in place to prevent corruption. The real issue is not that Trump held up the money, but that he first should have (pursuant to the Impoundment Act) asked for the funds to be redirected. But he did not do this. It’s a slap on the wrist offense, but in no way an impeachable one.

Missing the point AGAIN..

Yes , of course Presidents can require their Government etc. to do lots of things in lots of places pursuant to Government policy etc.

What they cannot do, is get a coterie of henchmen and personal lawyers to carry out these tasks independent of Government oversight and control whilst contrary to standing government policy.

For the umpteenth time , the issue here is not WHAT Trump did , the issue is WHY and HOW he did it.

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 07:51PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Missing the point AGAIN..

Yes , of course Presidents can require their Government etc. to do lots of things in lots of places pursuant to Government policy etc.

What they cannot do, is get a coterie of henchmen and personal lawyers to carry out these tasks independent of Government oversight and control whilst contrary to standing government policy.

For the umpteenth time , the issue here is not WHAT Trump did , the issue is WHY and HOW he did it.

I think you just don't like my answers to your somewhat misleading and manipulative questions. Yes, we know the WHAT. I already answered the HOW was not done in the totally proper fashion, which should warrant him a slap on the wrist. And the impeachment trial will determine the WHY. If he's acquitted then the WHY will have been determined to be not enough of a matter for removal from office... agree?

Quin_Dub · 28-01-2020 08:05PM

notobtuse wrote: »

I think you just don't like my answers to your somewhat misleading and manipulative questions. Yes, we know the WHAT. I already answered the HOW was not done in the totally proper fashion, which should warrant him a slap on the wrist. And the impeachment trial will determine the WHY. If he's acquitted then the WHY will have been determined to be not enough of a matter for removal from office... agree?

Assuming all available/requested evidence and testimony is made public and available and Senators vote based on that information and not party loyalty then yes. That's how it's supposed to work.

But if Trump and the GOP continue to obfuscate and refuse to cooperate and the Senators vote as they are told to by Mitch McConnell then no , not really.

And in relation to the HOW - Not requesting the money be redirected first is only one of many ways in which the HOW was not done correctly , several of which are most certainly worth more than a "slap on the wrist"

notobtuse · 28-01-2020 08:18PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Assuming all available/requested evidence and testimony is made public and available and Senators vote based on that information and not party loyalty then yes. That's how it's supposed to work.

But if Trump and the GOP continue to obfuscate and refuse to cooperate and the Senators vote as they are told to by Mitch McConnell then no , not really.

And in relation to the HOW - Not requesting the money be redirected first is only one of many ways in which the HOW was not done correctly , several of which are most certainly worth more than a "slap on the wrist"

Why would ANY president want to cooperate with a total sham of a purely political impeachment process?

So I take it you think Bill Clinton should have been removed from office?

President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

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