President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

Outlaw Pete

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what are you basing that on? has zelensky given testimony?

Zelensky has said there was no pressure and Andriy Yermak, adviser to Zelensky has also stated as much:

Was the money released before or after the whistleblower came forward? can you remind us of that?

Well, if it was issued before the "whistleblower" - then that would mean we'd entered the Twilight zone.

That it was issued after the "whistleblower" is meaningless and in fact, given that the WH was aware of them in August, that goes a long way to saying that they had no bearing on its release.

Outlaw Pete

Stallingrad wrote: »

Do you think the President cares one bit about corruption?

When it affects the US, yes. Multiple witnesses during the congressional hearings testified that he has raised the issue of corruption many times whilst in office.

Do you think the democrats really care about election meddling?

He only is interested in Ukraine as he hoped they had dirt on his main political rival.

If he wanted dirt, then why did he ask a President who against corruption to look into it? Dirt implies mistruths.

He was doing this for political gain, not to fight corruption.

Yeah, so they keep saying but there is no proof that is the case. However there is lots to back up the suggestion that he wanted it investigated for other reasons as I have already outlined above. Feel free to go back and read those posts, quote me, and rebut me.

He held up aid to try and get this information.

But yet didn't tell them. That's an odd way to try and extort information, isn't it, to not tell those you're extorting.

It's really not that complicated and anything else is 'whataboutery'.

All you did was post the democrat narrative and supplied nothing to back it up. Inferences and opinions aren't proof.

Cheerful Spring2

I think its bloody obvious Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son.. It's all straightforward the democrats are using this to try get rid of Trump and there new ploy. They failed with the Mueller investigation. this is the next thing.  We know Biden demanded the Ukraine government get rid of an official when he was in office; he confirms this on video. He demanded something, before he would hand over aid to Ukraine. Both parties are guilty of strong arming Ukraine to do their bidding. 

Igotadose

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I think its bloody obvious Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son.. It's all straightforward the democrats are using this to try get rid of Trump and there new ploy. They failed with the Mueller investigation. this is the next thing.  We know Biden demanded the Ukraine government get rid of an official when he was in office; he confirms this on video. He demanded something, before he would hand over aid to Ukraine. Both parties are guilty of strong arming Ukraine to do their bidding. 

Biden was acting on US government policy. Trump was going around it in order to gain political points for the next election. As has been repeatedly stated - Trump didn't want an investigation, just an announcement.

Besides, if it's all legitimate - Biden, after all, did in fact brag about this in public, why can't Trump share the audio call, it being perfect and all? Something to hide perhaps?

MonkeyTennis

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I think its bloody obvious Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate Biden and his son.. It's all straightforward the democrats are using this to try get rid of Trump and there new ploy. They failed with the Mueller investigation. this is the next thing.  We know Biden demanded the Ukraine government get rid of an official when he was in office; he confirms this on video. He demanded something, before he would hand over aid to Ukraine. Both parties are guilty of strong arming Ukraine to do their bidding. 

One of them was open and part of policy the other hidden and FOR PERSONAL GAIN ..any talk of Trump being a champion of anticorruption came as part of the cover up and quite frankly laughable

kilns

Trump has just tweeted a tirade against Fox News, this looks to spiraling quickly

Billy Mays

Fox News are now part of #theresistance apparently

ohnonotgmail

kilns wrote: »

Trump has just tweeted a tirade against Fox News, this looks to spiraling quickly

Billy Mays wrote: »

Fox News are now part of #theresistance apparently

Fox news had a poll the other day where 50% of respondents supported impeaching Trump. the end may be nigh.

Stallingrad

He sees Fox as a rival to the future Trump TV, which will broadcast 24/7 from cell block H.

notobtuse

Stallingrad wrote: »

He sees Fox as a rival to the future Trump TV, which will broadcast 24/7 from cell block H.

Reporting from 55 Ulitsa Savushkina, Saint Petersburg?

Cheerful Spring2

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

One of them was open and part of policy the other hidden and FOR PERSONAL GAIN ..any talk of Trump being a champion of anticorruption came as part of the cover up and quite frankly laughable

Would Irish people be ok with English politician demanding the dismissal of a minister in politics? Ukraine was happy to keep this official on, it was the US who demanded they fire him, and they, merely got rid of him over money they seriously required.  It still foreign interference in another country affairs. 
While I don't think Trump opinions are true, the Ukrainians were investigating Biden son, i do see info,  the Ukrainians were examining the Ukraine company that hired Biden son.

The company was under investigation for corruption. Why did the company-select Biden Son who had no background in this field of work? Who made the approach?  I don't believe, his son got a very large salary for his charm and sale skills, they obviously thought having the Vice President son on board would help them out in some way?

Trump corrupt we have recognized that since he took office. Blame the voters for his win, they looked passed all this and went to the polls and made him President.  I think democrats overlook 60 million voters care little about his racism, sexism and tax records, and this show happening right now, unlikely to change their minds about him if still there.

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

Reporting from 55 Ulitsa Savushkina, Saint Petersburg?

somewhere in Saudi Arabia more like.

Australian Open 2020

Australian Open 2020 wrote: »

Trump had perfectly good reason to ask Zelensky to investigate Biden for the interest of the United States of America. Of course anyone can speculate that he also did it for personal gain. But you have to be able to prove that. Trump is too smart for the Democrats, he creates traps for them to jump into.

Your Rereg names are becoming related and predictable.

Boggles

Billy Mays wrote: »

Fox News are now part of #theresistance apparently

When he is calling his propaganda channel pathetic you just know he is in trouble.

notobtuse

Five members of Joe Biden’s family got rich since he became vice president (Joe’s son Hunter, son-in-law Howard, brothers James and Frank, and sister Valerie). Not to mention many millions of dollars coming from US taxpayer funds for companies they started up (after Joe was assigned to oversee operations in several countries) and went bust (mostly because of having no background in). No conflicts of interest… nothing to see here… please move along?

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

Five members of Joe Biden’s family got rich since he became vice president (Joe’s son Hunter, son-in-law Howard, brothers James and Frank, and sister Valerie). Not to mention many millions of dollars coming from US taxpayer funds for companies they started up (after Joe was assigned to oversee operations in several countries) and went bust (mostly because of having no background in). No conflicts of interest… nothing to see here… please move along?

How's Trumps family doing since he took office?

woohoo!!!

Rudys son has questions to answer.
https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/1222168782505938944?s=19

Gwen Cooper

I think that Ivanka forgot who her father is for a little while:

https://twitter.com/IvankaTrump/status/1222126462347681793

notobtuse

Boggles wrote: »

How's Trumps family doing since he took office?

Since many have taken hits as a result of Trump hatred... I'd say worse.

notobtuse

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Rudys son has questions to answer.
https://twitter.com/ananavarro/status/1222168782505938944?s=19

Does he make that much per month?

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

Since many have taken hits as a result of Trump hatred... I'd say worse.

Trump does seem to hate Tiffany all right.

Quin_Dub

notobtuse wrote: »

Five members of Joe Biden’s family got rich since he became vice president (Joe’s son Hunter, son-in-law Howard, brothers James and Frank, and sister Valerie). Not to mention many millions of dollars coming from US taxpayer funds for companies they started up (after Joe was assigned to oversee operations in several countries) and went bust (mostly because of having no background in). No conflicts of interest… nothing to see here… please move along?

At the risk of repetition - The question is not whether or not there is a case to be answered by the extended Biden clan , there may well be. Hunter Biden certainly seems to be a fairly feckless unpleasant "rich kid" type based on the various evidence about him in the public arena.

The question is and always will be - Why did Trump decide to go after Biden when and how he did?

Biden and Ukraine had been discussed at various levels for several years yet Trump only decided it was something worth investigating after Biden announced his candidacy , aka -When Biden might impact Trump , not the US , Trump.

He also chose not to use the official channels even though Bill Barr was in place and has been shown to be more than happy to entertain judicial fishing expeditions on Trumps behalf.

Those are the questions that prompted the Quid Pro Quo, not whether Hunter Biden earned his salary or if Joe Biden helped him out.

For example, an equally self serving action was the infamous "Voter Fraud" investigation which was designed solely to make Trump feel better about losing the popular vote (with a bit of future voter suppression thrown in) and had no basis in fact or reality - As borne out by its complete and utter failure to find a single shred of evidence.

Despite that being utterly self serving, Impeachment wasn't discussed after that because he followed the rules and at least tried to make it look like a real legitimate thing.

He did none of that in Ukraine so any pretense of it being about anything other than helping Donald Trump fails even the most cursory of reviews.

Maybe he should have kept a few of those "adults in the room" about the place to protect him from his own stupidity and hubris.

notobtuse

Boggles wrote: »

Trump does seem to hate Tiffany all right.

Can't handle that the truth of the answer to the question wasn't what you were looking for, eh?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-businesses-take-a-hit-as-the-brand-has-lost-its-mojo-2018-12-23

weisses

notobtuse wrote: »

Can't handle that the truth to of the answer to the question wasn't what you were looking for, eh?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-businesses-take-a-hit-as-the-brand-has-lost-its-mojo-2018-12-23

Truth is that he is destroying his own business because of the brand name... His antics since taking office has a lot to do with it ... PEople don't want to be associated with the name Trump ... Can't blame them

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

At the risk of repetition - The question is not whether or not there is a case to be answered by the extended Biden clan , there may well be. Hunter Biden certainly seems to be a fairly feckless unpleasant "rich kid" type based on the various evidence about him in the public arena.

The question is and always will be - Why did Trump decide to go after Biden when and how he did?

Biden and Ukraine had been discussed at various levels for several years yet Trump only decided it was something worth investigating after Biden announced his candidacy , aka -When Biden might impact Trump , not the US , Trump.

He also chose not to use the official channels even though Bill Barr was in place and has been shown to be more than happy to entertain judicial fishing expeditions on Trumps behalf.

Those are the questions that prompted the Quid Pro Quo, not whether Hunter Biden earned his salary or if Joe Biden helped him out.

For example, an equally self serving action was the infamous "Voter Fraud" investigation which was designed solely to make Trump feel better about losing the popular vote (with a bit of future voter suppression thrown in) and had no basis in fact or reality - As borne out by its complete and utter failure to find a single shred of evidence.

Despite that being utterly self serving, Impeachment wasn't discussed after that because he followed the rules and at least tried to make it look like a real legitimate thing.

He did none of that in Ukraine so any pretense of it being about anything other than helping Donald Trump fails even the most cursory of reviews.

Maybe he should have kept a few of those "adults in the room" about the place to protect him from his own stupidity and hubris.

US Presidents have broad authority to condition aid to a foreign nation... even to delay it if there are concerns that it will not be used for its intended purposes. That is Trump’s (and any president's) power as president. Trump held up the money because of concerns over corruption. Efforts to help end corruption in Ukraine were objectives of both the Obama and Trump administrations. Foreign assistance programs are often held back and conditioned to ensure that systems are in place to prevent corruption. The real issue is not that Trump held up the money, but that he first should have (pursuant to the Impoundment Act) asked for the funds to be redirected. But he did not do this. It’s a slap on the wrist offense, but in no way an impeachable one.

notobtuse

weisses wrote: »

Truth is that he is destroying his own business because of the brand name... His antics since taking office has a lot to do with it ... PEople don't want to be associated with the name Trump ... Can't blame them

Okay, and some truth to it. But the poster I was responding to was hinting that Trump businesses and family members were doing great financially (like the Biden family) merely because he became president... which is not true.

Boggles

notobtuse wrote: »

Trump held up the money because of concerns over corruption.

You need to move forward, not even his defense team are really trying to sell that bucket of horse shít anymore.

Igotadose

notobtuse wrote: »

Okay, and some truth to it. But the poster I was responding to was hinting that Trump businesses and family members were doing great financially (like the Biden family) merely because he became president... which is not true.

You're not taking the Biden family finances stuff from Peter Schweizer's drivel, are you? Joe Biden himself hasn't got that much money versus, say, the grifters that surround the Donald

Billy Mays

I must've imagined all those times Trump has visited and stayed in his numerous properties since he became president.

Sure he made a nice few quid out of Pence's visit to Ireland when he stayed in Doonbeg despite it being nearly 300km from Dublin where he was conducting business.

Not benefiting from his presidency financially :pac: :pac:

The gullibility of Trumpers :rolleyes:

notobtuse

Igotadose wrote: »

You're not taking the Biden family finances stuff from Peter Schweizer's drivel, are you?

Why yes I did… and also from Ben Schreckinger and Ryan Grim. I like to see corroborating information on a subject before commenting on it… unlike others here.