General Election TV debates

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 06:04PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is that the sound of straws being clutched.

Are you one of these 'manifesto's really don't matter' people?

He made the committments, entered a confidence and supply arrangement and those things all got worse.

Not to mention what An Ciarraioch said too. I'm sure there's plenty more too.

Naggdefy · 28-01-2020 06:12PM

The Francie/Safe Surfer show continues

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 06:23PM

Naggdefy wrote: »

The Francie/Safe Surfer show continues

He asks for stuff, then just handwaves it away when it's presented. What's a poster to do here?

easypazz · 28-01-2020 06:23PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Did he break any commitment he made since becoming Fianna Fáil leader? In your opinion.

15000 Gardai, didn't happen.

quinnd6 · 28-01-2020 06:28PM

I thought they were all terrible last night.
The whole thing was boring as heck.
Anyway FF and FG are the same, won't tax the rich and prefer to find more and more charges for the poor to pay and well you know all the other problems- the ridiculously overpriced childrens hospital(most expensive in the world), the decimation of rural areas, trying to bring in water charges, the property tax which they want to increase, no home help available for people that need it, hospital overcrowding, main buses only going every 2 hours and if you're rural you can wait for 3 or 4 hours or there may not be a bus at all going where you want to go, they also want a household charge for tv licence, the ridiculous waste of money on that printer that was too big to fit in the room in the oireachtais, the fact they want to not tax any big corporations and tax the less well off instead, the homeless problem, the pension age problem. There are more problems I'm sure that I can't think of at the moment with both of those parties.
Labour well does anyone want to listen to Joan Burton for 4 years.
I think they are actually worse than FF and FG or if not then they're the same.
Greens are all about taxing and ripping people off and don't really care about the environment.
SF I don't know if I could trust them either and PBP well they only seem to want to oppose whoever gets in and don't really seem to have any ideas.

That's my opinion anyway.
I will vote for someone, just finding it difficult to find someone to vote for.
I find it difficult to trust any of them.

Idbatterim · 28-01-2020 06:28PM

what are these extra gardai meant to do, when there arent enough prison spaces to lock the scum up?

so why recruit more gardai? because of optics! pathetic! Results dont matter here at all, only optics do!

SafeSurfer · 28-01-2020 06:29PM

Are we going to go through the manifesto of every political party who wasn’t in government and say it was a broken promise?

quinnd6 · 28-01-2020 06:30PM

The extra gardai will be for giving speeding tickets to people that go 3 miles above the speed limit and parking tickets probably.

Idbatterim · 28-01-2020 06:30PM

quinnd6 wrote: »

I thought they were all terrible last night.
The whole thing was boring as heck.
Anyway FF and FG are the same, won't tax the rich and prefer to find more and more charges for the poor to pay and well you know all the other problems- the ridiculously overpriced childrens hospital(most expensive in the world), the decimation of rural areas, trying to bring in water charges, the property tax which they want to increase, no home help available for people that need it, hospital overcrowding, main buses only going every 2 hours and if you're rural you can wait for 3 or 4 hours or there may not be a bus at all going where you want to go, they also want a household charge for tv licence, the ridiculous waste of money on that printer that was too big to fit in the room in the oireachtais, the fact they want to not tax any big corporations and tax the less well off instead, the homeless problem, the pension age problem. There are more problems I'm sure that I can't think of at the moment with both of those parties.
Labour well does anyone want to listen to Joan Burton for 4 years.
I think they are actually worse than FF and FG or if not then they're the same.
Greens are all about taxing and ripping people off and don't really care about the environment.
SF I don't know if I could trust them either and PBP well they only seem to want to oppose whoever gets in and don't really seem to have any ideas.

That's my opinion anyway.
I will vote for someone, just finding it difficult to find someone to vote for.
I find it difficult to trust any of them.

guinnd, Ill give you my take on it. you talk about rural ireland, the pensioners want their very generous pensions, medical card, free travel. no water charges, as good as no lpt. I mean its great wanting the best of everything, but when push comes to shove, these people dont want to pay anything! I am not talking about just pensioners, we have huge amounts of workers paying, extremely little income tax. We have an obscene welfare state...

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 06:31PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are we going to go through the manifesto of every political party who wasn’t in government and say it was a broken promise?

You asked the question and got your answer, from more than me.

Stop digging.

quinnd6 · 28-01-2020 06:38PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

guinnd, Ill give you my take on it. you talk about rural ireland, the pensioners want their very generous pensions, medical card, free travel. no water charges, as good as no lpt. I mean its great wanting the best of everything, but when push comes to shove, these people dont want to pay anything!

Aren't they paying enough already.
Everyone pays their taxes including rural people and pensioners.
Pensions vary depending on the person so a lot of people would probably have a heck of a lot less than other people.
I don't really get what you're on about.

I Am The Law · 28-01-2020 06:40PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Quick look at his 2016 manifesto.

Commitments to

protecting and strengthening vital public services.

Secure home ownership and tackle homelessness

Tackle crime and develop community services

All broken. He stood by while these got worse. The audience agreed last night when he walked into the haymakers on them too.

Correct, FF supported an incompetent FG government, and people are still considering wasting not only their vote on these 2 parties, but another 5 years of of the same old thing.

Muahahaha · 28-01-2020 06:42PM

Naggdefy wrote: »

The Francie/Safe Surfer show continues

Indeed, pages upon pages of the same old tired SF/IRA crap that no one outside of a few political anoraks cares about anymore. Take it to another thread lads, this one is about the TV debates

Anyway next TV debate Thursday night TV3 at 9pm

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin and Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald will battle it out, along with the leaders of the four other main political parties, on Virgin Media’s leaders’ debate.

The leaders of the seven main political parties will get the chance to have their say on Virgin Media One on Thursday, January 30. The wide-ranging debate will be moderated by broadcasters Matt Cooper and Ivan Yates.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin and Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald will battle it out, along with the leaders of the four other main political parties, on Virgin Media’s leaders’ debate.
Mr Varadkar, Mr Martin and Ms McDonald will be joined by Green Party leader Eamon Ryan and Labour Party leader Brendan Howlin as well as representatives from the Social Democrats and People Before Profit.

Word is that Mick Barry will be taking over from Richard Boyd Barrett for this one

Deputy Barry said this morning: “The first Leaders Debate between Leo Varadkar and Micheal Martin was as dull as dishwater because they pretty much agree on all the main issues anyway. “Last night’s debate was more lively in large measure because Richard Boyd Barrett raised the real issues and didn’t pull his punches. I am looking forward to doing something similar this Thursday night.”

shenanagans · 28-01-2020 06:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My opinion is based on my experience of Martin, a sleeveen who can use his finely honed rhetoric to weasel out of any commitment or act he may have carried out. He walked into several haymakers last night trying to do that, from Varadkar and M.L.M etc.

He will do the same re: SF coalition, if it is the only option IN MY OPINION.

FF aren't going in with SF....end of story. It's not on the cards. This option has been ruled out by MM and several of the top younger FF ministers like Lisa Chambers and Stephen Donnolly. If the younger ministers weren't ruling it out then I would understand SF supporters holding out hope but it's clearly across the FF party.....NO SF COALITION!!!

Not only that but the grassroots FF will go nuts if it's considered. It won't happen.

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 06:43PM

I Am The Law wrote: »

FF supported an incompetent FG government,

That was the final straw for me. Time for a change.

tayto lover · 28-01-2020 06:45PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That was the final straw for me. Time for a change.

Who are you thinking of voting for Francie?

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 06:49PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Who are you thinking of voting for Francie?

Already posted this.

I am voting for Matt Carty this time with his running mate as No. 2. Or vice versa.

BTW, I have no interest in how others vote. Not sure why people need to know this stuff.

Idbatterim · 28-01-2020 06:54PM

quinnd6 wrote: »

Aren't they paying enough already.
Everyone pays their taxes including rural people and pensioners.
Pensions vary depending on the person so a lot of people would probably have a heck of a lot less than other people.
I don't really get what you're on about.

what are many of them paying primarily ? vat. Its the problem here with the discourse! Its why I think the debates are farcical in a way. You have people, who pay virtually nothing into the system or have paid virtually nothing in and they want even the working poor, hit by a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent, to pay for it all.

the system here, is deluded. So are many of the electorate... they dont care who pays or that persons ability to pay, once they are working, they must be comfortable and "fair game"

but they government here are idiots, I mean perception is huge here. they have just re-instated full dole here for under 25's, does anyone really care or did it make many headlines? no. I think its idiocy. The cost of that alone, is probably a multiple of whatever absolute pittance and irrelevance was saved, by closing garda stations and post offices. these state controls a colossal budget every year, and why they bothered tinkering around with what the equivalent to you and I would be red cents in our wallet and the damage it has done to them politically (rightly or wrongly), they are absolute fools

easypazz · 28-01-2020 06:57PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Indeed, pages upon pages of the same old tired SF/IRA crap that no one outside of a few political anoraks cares about anymore. Take it to another thread lads, this one is about the TV debates

Anyway next TV debate Thursday night TV3 at 9pm

Word is that Mick Barry will be taking over from Richard Boyd Barrett for this one

A bit pointless going 7 ways again. A 3 way this time would work, then a final head to head next week.

In a future election if there are genuinely 3 parties vying for it you could have 3 x 2 ways so each leader goes one to one with the other 2.

I'd have loved to hear Mary Lous answer on if she signed a pledge or not last night, but Howlin butted in.

It could have been a Sean "Brown Envelope" Gallagher moment for her.

If the question gets answered again she have her answer ready and will spin here way out of it.

Loafing Oaf · 28-01-2020 07:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He will do the same re: SF coalition, if it is the only option IN MY OPINION.

How could it be the only option if there's an offer from FG on the table?

Do you see a realistic possibility that FF + SF will have the numbers to form a government but FF + FG won't?

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 07:05PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Indeed, pages upon pages of the same old tired SF/IRA crap that no one outside of a few political anoraks cares about anymore. Take it to another thread lads, this one is about the TV debates

Anyway next TV debate Thursday night TV3 at 9pm

Word is that Mick Barry will be taking over from Richard Boyd Barrett for this one

Should have been all made to switch to another party member maybe.

Whatever, it will be hard to follow the Claire Bryne act.

shenanagans · 28-01-2020 07:14PM

easypazz wrote: »

A bit pointless going 7 ways again. A 3 way this time would work, then a final head to head next week.

In a future election if there are genuinely 3 parties vying for it you could have 3 x 2 ways so each leader goes one to one with the other 2.

I'd have loved to hear Mary Lous answer on if she signed a pledge or not last night, but Howlin butted in.

It could have been a Sean "Brown Envelope" Gallagher moment for her.

If the question gets answered again she have her answer ready and will spin here way out of it.

Would think that a debate with FF, FG and Greens would be more relevant given no one will touch SF. But broadcasters couldn't have greens without SF unfortunately. Howlin and Shortall were very poor last night. I'd have liked to heard more from Greens. MM was fairly cosying up to Eamon.

quinnd6 · 28-01-2020 07:15PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

what are many of them paying primarily ? vat. Its the problem here with the discourse! Its why I think the debates are farcical in a way. You have people, who pay virtually nothing into the system or have paid virtually nothing in and they want even the working poor, hit by a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent, to pay for it all.

the system here, is deluded. So are many of the electorate... they dont care who pays or that persons ability to pay, once they are working, they must be comfortable and "fair game"

but they government here are idiots, I mean perception is huge here. they have just re-instated full dole here for under 25's, does anyone really care or did it make many headlines? no. I think its idiocy. The cost of that alone, is probably a multiple of whatever absolute pittance and irrelevance was saved, by closing garda stations and post offices. these state controls a colossal budget every year, and why they bothered tinkering around with what the equivalent to you and I would be red cents in our wallet and the damage it has done to them politically (rightly or wrongly), they are absolute fools

Eh who's paying 50% tax?
The big corporations like Apple aren't paying tax.
The banks aren't paying tax.
The millionaires are doing their best to dodge tax.
Yet you want to go after poor people on jobseekers.
Really?
Are you serious oh for god's sake.
No ordinary people who are working shouldn't have to pay 50% tax.
I don't know where you're getting that one.
Anyway this is getting silly.

Idbatterim · 28-01-2020 07:23PM

quinnd6 wrote: »

Eh who's paying 50% tax?
The big corporations like Apple aren't paying tax.
The banks aren't paying tax.
The millionaires are doing their best to dodge tax.
Yet you want to go after poor people on jobseekers.
Really?
Are you serious oh for god's sake.
No ordinary people who are working shouldn't have to pay 50% tax.
I don't know where you're getting that one.
Anyway this is getting silly.

but of course they have to pay that marginal rate. When nobody else wants or is expected to pay their way. Can you blame anyone trying to dodge tax, for doing so? they arent poor, many are getting free houses, that people next door, can pay up to E3000 a month for, after bloody tax, no lpt, no management fee. you wont find the spineless weasel politicians calling a spade a spade here, but I will! They think , go after the "high earners" on 80-100k plus "high earners" :rolleyes: and they reckon they are fair game! Why? because how many voters pull in decent money as a percentage of the electorate? buy the rest of them off, with the mid to high earners taxes, that dont actually qualify them for better dole if made redundant, state pension is virtually the same. the system here, massively benefits to welfare recipients and lower paid, but at least the workers actually work! free gp visits, while working poor dont go, because they might have to pay E60. Free unlimited transport for many too, that dont actually work! Surprised the left here, havent proposed confiscating all property and wealth of the "rich" on 80k plus and selling it off and redistributing it to margaret cash and co....

you dont know where I am coming from, because you likely have dont know how things work in other countries, in the uk or germany etc, have a debate like yesterday, I can tell you now, the taxpayers there have a voice! It wouldnt be every party , trying to siphon off more money from them and give those paying into the system , nothing in return, which is what we have here...

James Brown · 28-01-2020 07:25PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Already posted this.

I am voting for Matt Carty this time with his running mate as No. 2. Or vice versa.

BTW, I have no interest in how others vote. Not sure why people need to know this stuff.

I believe the thinking is generally that folk will post, 'Now I'm no FG'er, but f*** me, if they aren't really good for the country. I'm not saying vote for them, but as an impartial observer, they are the best going so they are', which I can't see working on anyone anyway.
Also, 'you would say that' is a great pull the chute go to for some party folk, like it denigrates any point you might make.

Naggdefy · 28-01-2020 07:44PM

Don't know where to post this. Ok severe wintry weather like December 2010 or Beast/Emma March 2018 hits. Transport is severely effected in many rural areas. Snow ploughs etc are struggling to keep the main roads open.

Will the election be postponed at the last minute?

Will it go ahead? Surely FF would suffer most? FG and SF, Greens etc most likely to gain votes in urban areas, where people can generally get to polling booths. The urban 'middle' classes most likely to vote FG, maybe Green. SF to do well in more 'working' class urban areas.

What's ye're take?

quinnd6 · 28-01-2020 07:44PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

but of course they have to pay that marginal rate. When nobody else wants or is expected to pay their way. Can you blame anyone trying to dodge tax, for doing so? they arent poor, many are getting free houses, that people next door, can pay up to E3000 a month for, after bloody tax, no lpt, no management fee. you wont find the spineless weasel politicians calling a spade a spade here, but I will! They think , go after the "high earners" on 80-100k plus "high earners" :rolleyes: and they reckon they are fair game! Why? because how many voters pull in decent money as a percentage of the electorate? buy the rest of them off, with the mid to high earners taxes, that dont actually qualify them for better dole if made redundant, state pension is virtually the same. the system here, massively benefits to welfare recipients and lower paid, but at least the workers actually work! free gp visits, while working poor dont go, because they might have to pay E60. Free unlimited transport for many too, that dont actually work! Surprised the left here, havent proposed confiscating all property and wealth of the "rich" on 80k plus and selling it off and redistributing it to margaret cash and co....

you dont know where I am coming from, because you likely have dont know how things work in other countries, in the uk or germany etc, have a debate like yesterday, I can tell you now, the taxpayers there have a voice! It wouldnt be every party , trying to siphon off more money from them and give those paying into the system , nothing in return, which is what we have here...

That's because the welfare recipients don't have the money to pay for all that.
They're not all lying on their ass.
They're looking for jobs and at home carers.
Companies like Seetec also have hounded unemployed people and not helped them get any work at all.
Just being a complete nuisance.
Anyway you wouldn't understand.
People in general are selfish just looking at their own specific situation.
People in society who need help for whatever reason should be able to get help.

easypazz · 28-01-2020 07:47PM

Naggdefy wrote: »

Don't know where to post this. Ok severe wintry weather like December 2010 or Beast/Emma March 2018 hits. Transport is severely effected in many rural areas. Snow ploughs etc are struggling to keep the main roads open.

Will the election be postponed at the last minute?

Will it go ahead? Surely FF would suffer most? FG and SF, Greens etc most likely to gain votes in urban areas, where people can generally get to polling booths. The urban 'middle' classes most likely to vote FG, maybe Green. SF to do well in more 'working' class urban areas.

What's ye're take?

They would have follow protocol and postpone.

Edit - only if a red warning gets issued, and for those counties only.

SafeSurfer · 28-01-2020 07:47PM

Here is a useful link to the manifestos of Irish political parties ahead of each general election.

http://michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/

It seems the meaning of a manifesto is lost on many people.

Only a party in government with an overall majority can attempt to deliver its manifesto in it’s entirety.

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 07:49PM

Naggdefy wrote: »

Don't know where to post this. Ok severe wintry weather like December 2010 or Beast/Emma March 2018 hits. Transport is severely effected in many rural areas. Snow ploughs etc are struggling to keep the main roads open.

Will the election be postponed at the last minute?

Will it go ahead? Surely FF would suffer most? FG and SF, Greens etc most likely to gain votes in urban areas, where people can generally get to polling booths. The urban 'middle' classes most likely to vote FG, maybe Green. SF to do well in more 'working' class urban areas.

What's ye're take?

Hard to know. Has anyone made a prediction on turnout?

65% turnout in 2016...are the electorate more invigourated to get out and vote this time? I getting the feeling they are. If there's a gunder of snow? Maybe not so much so.

General Election TV debates

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