General Election TV debates

SafeSurfer · 28-01-2020 12:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Martin was never involved in a conflict/war.

A tiny minority of people involved in northern Irish politics were so power hungry that they resorted to killing to achieve their objectives. Killing ultimately did not achieve their objective but thousands died because of their failed political decisions.

There are still British troops in Northern Ireland. Still Union Jacks flying in the north. Sinn Fein have grown since they pressed pause on their dual politics/violence strategy.

SafeSurfer · 28-01-2020 12:39PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Word is Dinny is getting final say on FG candidates,

Yawn.

easypazz · 28-01-2020 12:42PM

shenanagans wrote: »

FF are topping the polls. Why would he resign? FF TDs won't want him to resign. They'll go into govt with other parties ....NOT SF. No one will partner with SF because they are not a democratic party. With their history no one wants to associate with them. Unfortunately there's no credible left party at the moment with greens and labour so low in polls.

MM has also ruled out a coalition with FG. According to MM the people want a new government.

His only option, to implement what the people keep telling him on the doorsteps, may be to form a new government with SF.

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 12:44PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

A tiny minority of people involved in northern Irish politics were so power hungry that they resorted to killing to achieve their objectives.

Martin runs a party that was born exactly the same way. What is your point here, other than wanting to drag a current debate back to the past?

shenanagans · 28-01-2020 12:47PM

easypazz wrote: »

MM has also ruled out a coalition with FG. According to MM the people want a new government.

His only option, to implement what the people keep telling him on the doorsteps, may be to form a new government with SF.

I'd say it will be another confidence and supply agreement with FG propping up FF this time. Unless Greens and Labour get numbers to form a govt with FF.... hopefully this will happen....it would be more popular I'd imagine.

easypazz · 28-01-2020 12:49PM

shenanagans wrote: »

I'd say it will be another confidence and supply agreement with FG propping up FF this time. Unless Greens and Labour get numbers to form a govt with FF.... hopefully this will happen....it would be more popular I'd imagine.

If FF and FG get something like say 49 and 44 seats then surely FG are entitled to expect a coalition?

It would play into SF's hands though as SF would be the main opposition party and build nicely for 5 years time.

I'd say FF and FG are petrified of Sinn Fein.

shenanagans · 28-01-2020 12:55PM

easypazz wrote: »

If FF and FG get something like say 49 and 44 seats then surely FG are entitled to expect a coalition?

It would play into SF's hands though as SF would be the main opposition party and build nicely for 5 years time.

I'd say FF and FG are petrified of Sinn Fein.

I could be wrong but arent the numbers similar now....FG 50 and FF 44??

FF and FG aren't afraid of SF at all because Mary Lou is correct......the two main parties will agree to keep SF out.

golfball37 · 28-01-2020 12:58PM

I still think we could have a John A Costello type Taoiseach like John McGuinness come February. Martin now cannot row back on his SF assertions but the FF Ard Comhairle may decide differently, if its the only option availabe.

easypazz · 28-01-2020 01:00PM

shenanagans wrote: »

I could be wrong but arent the numbers similar now....FG 50 and FF 44??

FF and FG aren't afraid of SF at all because Mary Lou is correct......the two main parties will agree to keep SF out.

Yes and IIRC FF didn't want to join a coalition, FG may not want to enter a supply and confidence this time, so who knows.

shenanagans · 28-01-2020 01:03PM

golfball37 wrote: »

I still think we could have a John A Costello type Taoiseach like John McGuinness come February. Martin now cannot row back on his SF assertions but the FF Ard Comhairle may decide differently, if its the only option availabe.

FG would rather hold FF up under a confidence and supply rather than see SF come in with FF. And MM would also prefer this.....he has more in common with FG.

JohnnyFlash · 28-01-2020 01:06PM

golfball37 wrote: »

I still think we could have a John A Costello type Taoiseach like John McGuinness come February. Martin now cannot row back on his SF assertions but the FF Ard Comhairle may decide differently, if its the only option availabe.

‘Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them....well I have others’.

JohnnyFlash · 28-01-2020 01:10PM

shenanagans wrote: »

FG would rather hold FF up under a confidence and supply rather than see SF come in with FF. And MM would also prefer this.....he has more in common with FG.

Make no mistake, if the numbers stacked up then FG would try and seduce SF to form a coalition. LV and MLM actually like each other despite the politics.

The question here is whether SF want to actually play a bit of county hurling or do they prefer to just be a party of opposition.

Idbatterim · 28-01-2020 01:22PM

easypazz wrote: »

If FF and FG get something like say 49 and 44 seats then surely FG are entitled to expect a coalition?

It would play into SF's hands though as SF would be the main opposition party and build nicely for 5 years time.

I'd say FF and FG are petrified of Sinn Fein.

they arent. their vote will never top 15% or thereabouts...

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 01:23PM

golfball37 wrote: »

Martin now cannot row back on his SF assertions.

You can't see Martin waving the hands about and doing a 'woe is me, I'm making a great personal sarcrifice for the country' speech?
He fecking did one last night on Confidence and Supply ffs. He's a political opportunist. If SF are his only chance to be Taoiseach (and he is on his last one) he'll find the words and a way.

easypazz · 28-01-2020 01:25PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can't see Martin waving the hands about and doing a 'woe is me, I'm making a great personal sarcrifice for the country' speech?
He fecking did one last night on Confidence and Supply ffs. He's a political opportunist. If SF are his only chance to be Taoiseach (and he is on his last one) he'll find the words and a way.

Exactly. If a SF / FF coalition happens and it is a success he may even get 2 terms.

Otherwise he walks and never gets seen again.

Naggdefy · 28-01-2020 01:25PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

If the numbers stack up then it will happen. They will huff and they’ll puff, and they’ll pretend to be trying to put together some sort of grand coalition involving everyone except SF and FG. And there will be lots of posturing and hot air. Might go on for a few weeks. Insults will be traded and Hugh O’Connell will explode with excitement.

And then Mehole and Mary will hold ‘private talks’ and a decision to go into coalition will happen for the ‘good of the country’.

Would you stop with your 'mehole', fairly boring at this stage. He's a decent man who has buried 2 children.

easypazz · 28-01-2020 01:27PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

they arent. their vote will never top 15% or thereabouts...

Rubbish, nobody knows that, there are a lot of constituencies Limerick county, Clare, Galway, Mayo and Sligo for example where they are thin on the ground.

Plenty of opportunity to make gains in these areas.

If we see a FF / FG arrangement again then SF will defacto be the main opposition party.

easypazz · 28-01-2020 01:28PM

Naggdefy wrote: »

Would you stop with your 'mehole', fairly boring at this stage. He's a decent man who has buried 2 children.

Christ that's a dirty pull from you right there.

JohnnyFlash · 28-01-2020 01:30PM

Naggdefy wrote: »

Would you stop with your 'mehole', fairly boring at this stage. He's a decent man who has buried 2 children.

I don’t see what his tragic and unimaginable loses have to do with his notoriously prickly and cranky nature, or a nickname long assigned to him.

SafeSurfer · 28-01-2020 01:30PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Martin runs a party that was born exactly the same way. What is your point here, other than wanting to drag a current debate back to the past?

You label MM as power hungry. My point is that current members of Sinn Fein were so power hungry they were willing to kill anyone who got in their way to achieve it. You can go back 100 years and talk about the war of independence and civil war if you want. I am talking about current party members of SF.

That is all.

SafeSurfer · 28-01-2020 01:32PM

easypazz wrote: »

Rubbish, nobody knows that, there are a lot of constituencies Limerick county, Clare, Galway, Mayo and Sligo for example where they are thin on the ground.

Plenty of opportunity to make gains in these areas.

If we see a FF / FG arrangement again then SF will defacto be the main opposition party.

Opportunities to make gains in areas like Sligo where for the first time in over 20 years they aren’t even running a candidate? I don’t think so.

Naggdefy · 28-01-2020 01:34PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I don’t see what his tragic and unimaginable loses have to do with his notoriously prickly and cranky nature, or a nickname long assigned to him.

He's not prickly. He never loses his cool. He's no different than Leo, Eamonn Ryan etc.

Now Dessie O'Malley was someone you'd call narky, cranky, prickly. PR school has left very few like that today.

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 01:41PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You label MM as power hungry. My point is that current members of Sinn Fein were so power hungry they were willing to kill anyone who got in their way to achieve it. You can go back 100 years and talk about the war of independence and civil war if you want. I am talking about current party members of SF.

That is all.

SO what? You undermine the conflict/war in northern Ireland down to a 'power struggle' all you want.

Even if it was, how does that alter the fact that MM is also power hungry? You don't have to kill anybody to be described as 'power hungry'.

Get over yourself here, you aren't countering the point at all.

RandomViewer · 28-01-2020 01:52PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yawn.

Yawn all yo like, FG dont even bother trying to hide he owns them.

blanch152 · 28-01-2020 02:10PM

easypazz wrote: »

If FF and FG get something like say 49 and 44 seats then surely FG are entitled to expect a coalition?

It would play into SF's hands though as SF would be the main opposition party and build nicely for 5 years time.

I'd say FF and FG are petrified of Sinn Fein.

I don't think FF and FG are petrified of Sinn Fein per se.

Rather I would see it that FF and FG are rightly afraid of the damage that Sinn Fein would do to our democracy, our society and our economy if they ever wielded serious power in the South. In the North, they are held in check by the balances applied through the unique provisions of the Stormont Assembly.

jammiedodgers · 28-01-2020 02:13PM

golfball37 wrote: »

I still think we could have a John A Costello type Taoiseach like John McGuinness come February. Martin now cannot row back on his SF assertions but the FF Ard Comhairle may decide differently, if its the only option availabe.

Yeah, imagine a politician going back on their word :eek:

Fr_Dougal · 28-01-2020 02:14PM

easypazz wrote: »

MM has also ruled out a coalition with FG. According to MM the people want a new government.

His only option, to implement what the people keep telling him on the doorsteps, may be to form a new government with SF.

No he hasn’t, he was very careful with his words. He said that people want change, he never categorically ruled out a FF/FG coalition.

He did, however, rule out a SF/IRA coalition.

“We will not be going into coalition with Sin Féin,” he said.

blanch152 · 28-01-2020 02:16PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Martin runs a party that was born exactly the same way. What is your point here, other than wanting to drag a current debate back to the past?

So we can talk about Fianna Fail historically being founded in 1922 in a completely different era, but we can't talk about the involvement of current Sinn Fein representatives in terrorist activity.

Got it.

SafeSurfer · 28-01-2020 02:17PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SO what? You undermine the conflict/war in northern Ireland down to a 'power struggle' all you want.

Even if it was, how does that alter the fact that MM is also power hungry? You don't have to kill anybody to be described as 'power hungry'.

Get over yourself here, you aren't countering the point at all.

You are being ridiculous now Frankie. Describing a person as power hungry even though they ruled out SF as a partner therefore narrowing their path to power.

If the Northern Ireland conflict wasn’t a power struggle what was it and is it?

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2020 02:18PM

blanch152 wrote: »

So we can talk about Fianna Fail historically being founded in 1922 in a completely different era, but we can't talk about the involvement of current Sinn Fein representatives in terrorist activity.

Got it.

You talk away about it blanch. I ain't stopping you.

General Election TV debates

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