Chinese EV to hit Europe - Aiways U5

Joseph SEE · 27-01-2020 2:18am #1

I didn't see this posted elsewhere. Apologies in advance if it's already been posted.

Aiways U5 car is supposedly hitting Europe. The first Chinese EV according to this article. I guess they aren't counting MG.

It may help to drop competitor prices.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/25/aiways-u5-set-to-become-first-chinese-ev-in-europe/amp/

NIMAN · 27-01-2020 6:53am

Looks good.

Lumen · 27-01-2020 7:18am

About the size of an Audi Q5...more than enough performance for navigating Europe’s dense urban centers.

Indeed, what Europe's dense urban centres need is definitely more SUVs.

unkel · 27-01-2020 9:49am

The majority of us will be driving Chinese EVs in about 20-30 years time. Hard to see how the incumbents can survive this.

Joseph SEE · 27-01-2020 10:53am

unkel wrote: »

The majority of us will be driving Chinese EVs in about 20-30 years time. Hard to see how the incumbents can survive this.

Not so sure about that. China's economic position is precarious.

If China exports suffer then the country will go into an enormous recession due to their level of domestic debt. It could take them decades to recover.

unkel · 27-01-2020 10:59am

Don't disagree with any of that, but if China will be able to start exporting EVs worth at least €20k each on average and they will do so by the millions in a few years time, and by the tens of millions in about a decade, I think they will come out of it well economically. And who is going to be able to compete with that?

Markcheese · 27-01-2020 12:04pm

the psa electrics are already using Chinese made running gear , so that's the 208,2008,some DS or other,Corsa and many fiats in the near future ... But psa is part owned by dong feng motors ...

Calahonda52 · 27-01-2020 12:06pm

unkel wrote: »

Don't disagree with any of that, but if China will be able to start exporting EVs worth at least €20k each on average and they will do so by the millions in a few years time, and by the tens of millions in about a decade, I think they will come out of it well economically. And who is going to be able to compete with that?

Lets see how the coronavirus pans out, for all of us, before we start talking decades

ELM327 · 27-01-2020 3:52pm

unkel wrote: »

The majority of us will be driving Chinese EVs in about 20-30 years time. Hard to see how the incumbents can survive this.

Certainly won't be.
I'll be long in the cold ground before I drive a chinese car

D13exile · 27-01-2020 3:59pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Certainly won't be.
I'll be long in the cold ground before I drive a chinese car

Why? There's a good chance your expensive smart phone is Chinese made. China has moved on a long way from cheap knock off goods and they will be the economic powerhouse of the 21st century. If they start producing BEV's at reasonable prices, ie €20k, then why not buy one?

SteM · 27-01-2020 4:04pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Certainly won't be.
I'll be long in the cold ground before I drive a chinese car

The same way people wouldn't drive Skodas. But then they would. And people wouldn't drive Dacias. And then they would.

You yourself might have no interest but Tommy and Mary just want a reliable car that they think is good value for money. Oh, and of course it has to be new.

ELM327 · 27-01-2020 5:11pm

D13exile wrote: »

Why? There's a good chance your expensive smart phone is Chinese made. China has moved on a long way from cheap knock off goods and they will be the economic powerhouse of the 21st century. If they start producing BEV's at reasonable prices, ie €20k, then why not buy one?

I don't need my phone to be constructed to save my life and those of my family in a crash.

SteM wrote: »

The same way people wouldn't drive Skodas. But then they would. And people wouldn't drive Dacias. And then they would.

You yourself might have no interest but Tommy and Mary just want a reliable car that they think is good value for money. Oh, and of course it has to be new.

I've owned 2 skodas and driven a Dacia. I have no issues with them,

It's not so simple though. For every Skoda theres a Lada.

Dont be at yourself · 27-01-2020 5:19pm

Japanese cars used to be cheap knock-offs of US cars. More recently Korean cars were imitations of Japanese cars. Times change. I agree with Unkel that the transition to EV will result in a huge leap forward for the Chinese auto industry.

Safety, quality control etc are not an inherent advantages of Western OEMs. If the Chinese need to compete on these, they will.

Gile_na_gile · 27-01-2020 5:24pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Lets see how the coronavirus pans out, for all of us, before we start talking decades

The Corona virus has mortality rate of 3% so far, and less if you include those not diagnosed and recovered. The seasonal flu is 1%.... China is well-equipped to deal with it, but I would like to know what are they doing generally to improve markets, because that is where we are getting these viral mutations from one species to another.

Anyway, Euro and Am makers have to beat them on innovation and brand loyalty, but the direction of China is going from low-value to high-value, so it will eventually flatten out. We have seen that already with their mobiles, Xiaomi etc. China is changing to a domestic consumption-driven economy with a middle class as large as that of Europe....

JohnC. · 27-01-2020 5:26pm

I assume there's already plenty of car components made in China?

SteM · 27-01-2020 5:54pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I've owned 2 skodas and driven a Dacia. I have no issues with them,

It's not so simple though. For every Skoda theres a Lada.

My point is that many people wouldn't have touched them at one point but have no problem owning them now. The same will happen with the Chinese imports in time if the price is good and the quality is there. Your stance of 'dead in the ground' ownership is the minority.

It's like every industry,

Lumen · 27-01-2020 6:32pm

unkel wrote: »

The majority of us will be driving Chinese EVs in about 20-30 years time. Hard to see how the incumbents can survive this.

There was the same panic about Japan in the 1980s.

Michael Crichton wrote a slightly mental novel with this theme called Rising Sun, in 1992.

The world kept spinning, the incumbents still kept pumping out cars, even the USAnians!

https://fee.org/articles/80s-fears-of-a-japanese-economic-pearl-harbor-look-silly-today-but-theyre-instructive/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_(novel)

I feel old.

unkel · 27-01-2020 7:09pm

I'm at least as old as you and I well remember

The threat from Japan was never as serious and imminent as the threat from China is now though. And as Dont be at yourself says, they have form. They already make plenty of >USD1000 mobile phones (iPhones) that are perceived to be top quality (as good as anything produced anywhere else in the world).

adunis · 27-01-2020 7:32pm

My 5 mobile phones to enter my house were Chinese,each with comparable specs/build quality and finish to rival the establishments offerings at 1/2 or even 1/3 rd the price.
I look forward to the day my car will be the same,in fact I look forward to when buying your car will be the same process as buying a domestic appliance the days of the traditional car industry are numbered,which of the incumbents will survive ?........

Roll on my Xaoimi gt-ev ......

unkel · 27-01-2020 8:26pm

I don't know if I'm looking forward to any of that adunis

It's the most likely scenario though. And people wouldn't even realise their car is Chinese. Just like with the iPhone 11 Pro, a Chinese phone. And the MG ZS, a Chinese EV that's competent and thousands cheaper than it would have cost from a European, American, Korean or Japanese manufacturer.

colm_mcm · 27-01-2020 8:32pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I don't need my phone to be constructed to save my life and those of my family in a crash.

I've owned 2 skodas and driven a Dacia. I have no issues with them,

It's not so simple though. For every Skoda theres a Lada.

Stay away from Volvo’s so

And it’s not as if Chinese car companies that don’t just buy a brand like Volvo can’t make a safe car either. Qoros Q3 got 5 star NCAP.
https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/qoros/3-sedan/8887

Cars designed for developing markets don’t prioritize safety, that’s a fact. It wasn’t long ago that VW were still building T2 buses from 1950 in 2013, Suzuki have 50% of the Indian car market, a lot of that made up of the local market Alto, which is as much of a death trap as most Chinese cars. Toyota still 90s Hiaces, which have appalling safety, they just don’t sell this stuff in our market.

Ford Courier vans here still don’t have side airbags or even a passenger airbag. The Citroen Berlingo has a hugely dangerous middle seat setup where the passengers knee is jammed against the base of the gear lever, they get away with all of this because vans aren’t crash tested here like cars are.

So unsafe cars aren’t a uniquely Chinese thing, and they can make them safe when they (you know, grouping them all together) want to.

Also - Lada are selling rebadged Dacias now!

Dont be at yourself · 27-01-2020 8:33pm

Whatever about MG, lets not forget Volvo / Polestar are part of Chinese auto company Geely (who may also buy Aston Martin)!

Idbatterim · 28-01-2020 1:45pm

Aiways’ U5 SUV first appeared on our radar back in September, when it became the first Chinese EV to receive full type approval from German testing and certification agency, TUV Rheinland. At that time, range was estimated to be nearly 270 miles (434 km) in the NEDC cycle — closer to 240, by “our” standards — and the U5 met all the TÜV’s strict noise and safety tests, as well. “The Chinese automotive industry is strongly committed to alternative drive line technologies and intends to use them to open up international markets,” explained Gunnar Pflug, the head of type certification at TÜV. “TÜV Rheinland has the competence and experience to provide Chinese manufacturers with access to these markets through appropriate testing and certification services.”

the germans are testing them, I think they know a thing or two about cars...

ELM327 · 28-01-2020 1:51pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Stay away from Volvo’s so

And it’s not as if Chinese car companies that don’t just buy a brand like Volvo can’t make a safe car either. Qoros Q3 got 5 star NCAP.
https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/qoros/3-sedan/8887

Cars designed for developing markets don’t prioritize safety, that’s a fact. It wasn’t long ago that VW were still building T2 buses from 1950 in 2013, Suzuki have 50% of the Indian car market, a lot of that made up of the local market Alto, which is as much of a death trap as most Chinese cars. Toyota still 90s Hiaces, which have appalling safety, they just don’t sell this stuff in our market.

Ford Courier vans here still don’t have side airbags or even a passenger airbag. The Citroen Berlingo has a hugely dangerous middle seat setup where the passengers knee is jammed against the base of the gear lever, they get away with all of this because vans aren’t crash tested here like cars are.

So unsafe cars aren’t a uniquely Chinese thing, and they can make them safe when they (you know, grouping them all together) want to.

Also - Lada are selling rebadged Dacias now!

Theres a difference between a few ancient vans and mass producing unsafe crap

Chinese ownership of volvo doesnt change the company, same as JLR

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Whatever about MG, lets not forget Volvo / Polestar are part of Chinese auto company Geely (who may also buy Aston Martin)!

Again, ownership is not the issue

Idbatterim · 28-01-2020 1:53pm

the likes of bm for a few years had their "chape" tax etc. but when the masses cna move to new electric and save a lot v their older fossil fuel cars, will many care what brands they are getting into?

patmahe · 28-01-2020 2:00pm

My main concern about a Chinese vehicle is not quality or similar, they have the economies of scale which would mean R&D would be very worthwhile so quality may even be higher than some European manufacturers.

What I would have a concern about is the regulations they would have to be built to, will they have to pass EuroNCAP crash tests for example, if they do that and can sell a large EV with good range for under 30k they'll fly out of the showrooms and good luck to them.

colm_mcm · 28-01-2020 5:02pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Theres a difference between a few ancient vans and mass producing unsafe crap

Chinese ownership of volvo doesnt change the company, same as JLR

Again, ownership is not the issue

You do know that VW, Toyota and Suzuki weren’t building these in some jungle clearing, knocking out a few a week. These were full scale production cars.

I agree that the domestic Chinese stuff is pretty appalling safety wise, but they’re not the only nation at it.

American cars are gas guzzlers, hence I’ll never own a Tesla, and I won’t be told otherwise.

zilog_jones · 29-01-2020 5:27pm

patmahe wrote: »

My main concern about a Chinese vehicle is not quality or similar, they have the economies of scale which would mean R&D would be very worthwhile so quality may even be higher than some European manufacturers.

What I would have a concern about is the regulations they would have to be built to, will they have to pass EuroNCAP crash tests for example, if they do that and can sell a large EV with good range for under 30k they'll fly out of the showrooms and good luck to them.

Anyone selling a car in Europe will have to meet European standards for type approval, which includes various safety requirements.

Euro NCAP is a non-profit organisation and testing is not mandatory - cars for testing can be chosen independently by the organisation or sponsored by the manufacturer. But I imagine if a Chinese car maker wants to make a mark in Europe and prove they can build safe cars, they'll get it done.

unkel · 29-01-2020 7:05pm

The only Chinese EV for sale in the EU that I can think of is the MG ZS. It has got a Euro NCAP 3 star rating.

Not great, but not terrible either. Probably as safe as a 4-5 star car was 20 years ago?

Lumen · 29-01-2020 7:13pm

unkel wrote: »

The only Chinese EV for sale in the EU that I can think of is the MG ZS. It has got a Euro NCAP 3 star rating.

Not great, but not terrible either. Probably as safe as a 4-5 star car was 20 years ago?

Nope. The ICE version got 3 stars, but the EV version got 5 stars.

Turns out protecting the battery also protects the occupants.

unkel · 29-01-2020 7:36pm

Thanks for correcting that!

MG ZS ICE (2017) 3 stars

MG ZS EV (2019) 5 stars

Gile_na_gile · 27-02-2020 11:28pm

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

The Corona virus has mortality rate of 3% so far, and less if you include those not diagnosed and recovered. The seasonal flu is 1%.... China is well-equipped to deal with it, but I would like to know what are they doing generally to improve markets, because that is where we are getting these viral mutations from one species to another.

Anyway, Euro and Am makers have to beat them on innovation and brand loyalty, but the direction of China is going from low-value to high-value, so it will eventually flatten out. We have seen that already with their mobiles, Xiaomi etc. China is changing to a domestic consumption-driven economy with a middle class as large as that of Europe....

Might as well eat my words now, since the mortality rate of Covid-19/Corona is roughly 2.3% while seaons flu is typically around 0.2%. The former will be revised continually given how long it takes for a case to be resolved in either return to health or death, so that mortality rate, or Case Fatality Ratio is currently quite variable.

In Hubei the CFR seems as high as 5% in Hubei, but it can be as low as 0.8% elsewhere. The outcomes are heavily influenced by how well the outbreak is managed and the care response. At the epicentre the health system was overwhelmed.

Source, 26 Feb, preprint: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.26.20028076v1

So, in a country like ours it depends on how managed it is. The CFR increases if we don't manage the spread, but could remain low if well managed. There will have to be more drastic measures to restrict travel and isolate cases once infection rates go up.

traco · 28-02-2020 11:53am

If the Chinese meet the safety standards, are well built and tick price, range boxes etc then I'd consider them. Lets face it much of the electronics for EV stuff will originate from Asia anyway so I see little difference there.

One area that might be a concern for me is suspension components. I'd like these to be made by a reputable brand even if that factory is in China. Too many stories of aftermarket Chinese suspension components not lasting any length.

28-02-2020 12:20pm

Looks good but 190 Hp is a no no and estimated 240 Kms range = not fantastic.

How many Kw on CCS ?

traco · 28-02-2020 1:11pm

My current daily is 140bhp and its fine, loads of 100bhp cars on the road with no problems. Why is 190 not enough for daily school runs, work commute, shopping etc?

The work LWB HR Transit is 155bhp and it functions adequately.

Idbatterim · 28-02-2020 1:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks good but 190 Hp is a no no and estimated 240 Kms range = not fantastic.

How many Kw on CCS ?

what are you talking about mad lad? 190bhp in ireland isnt enough? I sometimes feel I should ditch my car, because I would walk quicker than most accelerate away here from stops and the speed they drive at? where are you going to be racing to in an urban area for example? the next ramp or set of lights?

also the range will be reflected in the price! which is one of the key points people talk about, with the slow adoption of EV. What do you want? a 1000km range , 500 bhp mass market affordable EV ?

I do think it will take the chinese to massively speed up ev adoption...

beauf · 28-02-2020 1:20pm

[QUOTE=traco;112672749...Why is 190 not enough for daily school runs, work commute, shopping etc?...[/QUOTE]

You have to get to the gridlock as fast as possible.

There are EVs with more BHP if thats your thing.

28-02-2020 3:48pm

traco wrote: »

My current daily is 140bhp and its fine, loads of 100bhp cars on the road with no problems. Why is 190 not enough for daily school runs, work commute, shopping etc?

The work LWB HR Transit is 155bhp and it functions adequately.

Idbatterim wrote: »

what are you talking about mad lad? 190bhp in ireland isnt enough? I sometimes feel I should ditch my car, because I would walk quicker than most accelerate away here from stops and the speed they drive at? where are you going to be racing to in an urban area for example? the next ramp or set of lights?

also the range will be reflected in the price! which is one of the key points people talk about, with the slow adoption of EV. What do you want? a 1000km range , 500 bhp mass market affordable EV ?

I do think it will take the chinese to massively speed up ev adoption...

beauf wrote: »

You have to get to the gridlock as fast as possible.

There are EVs with more BHP if thats your thing.

Electrics are heavy and a Q5 size EV will be heavier again making 190 HP not all that fantastic.

It would be absolutely fine if there was another Motor option so People can choose lower power or higher power. But this is a situation common with most electrics.

traco · 28-02-2020 4:00pm

Autocar UK review in Germany
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/aiways/u5/first-drives/aiways-u5-2019-review

Not going to set the world on fire but seems acceptable for what it is. If its around 30k then it should sell well here.

Third_Echelon · 28-02-2020 7:07pm

Not bad at all. Would certainly do the job as the family people mover around town and the burbs. Depending on range and options would work perfectly well in ireland for longer trips too.

Interior buttons and knobs are the exact same as Hyundai. If the price is right, it could do well.

unkel · 28-02-2020 7:27pm

BHP is pretty meaningless, but 190BHP should be plenty. It's torque that counts. My humble Ioniq has just 118BHP yet it is away quicker from the lights than about 90% of cars on the road in this country today.

240km is not that far from what an average Irish car drives in a week (308km). Plenty of range for most people, although they probably don't realise this

28-02-2020 7:56pm

Torque counts but without HP there is no Torque, HP gives you the ability to move and torque is the force that moves you.

You need more HP to go faster or to accelerate faster.

With any given HP it's how they implement this that matters, you can use this available HP for faster acceleration or faster top speed but for more of both you need more power, more HP.

+ it's how the car can put this power on the road that matters, poor grip makes a Kona for instance seem much much slower than the power would suggest.

eddhorse · 29-02-2020 10:13am

Well they say 240km range but it's not that in reality.

The more EVs the better, keep them coming to bring down prices.

25-04-2021 11:58am

Saw two of these AIWAYS U5 cars while charging yesterday.
They have a partnership with two companies in Germany.
Euronics is a respected chain of independent Electrical equipment retailers throughout Germany.
ATU is a respected chain of marque independent after-market maintenance garages across Germany.
You can test-drive from a participating Euronics outlet and maintenance warranty is covered by ATU.

I didn't get to test drive but for the price of a high specification Zoe or e208 you are getting a highly specified car as large as a Skoda Enyaq with same range as a mid-sized battery VAG product.

The biggest problem they are having in getting traction is that these days most cars are acquired on lease agreements and the lease companies can't figure out the residual values so are pitching the lease deals at high prices to cover themselves.

optimal · 25-04-2021 10:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Saw two of these AIWAYS U5 cars while charging yesterday.
They have a partnership with two companies in Germany.
Euronics is a respected chain of independent Electrical equipment retailers throughout Germany.
ATU is a respected chain of marque independent after-market maintenance garages across Germany.
You can test-drive from a participating Euronics outlet and maintenance warranty is covered by ATU.

I didn't get to test drive but for the price of a high specification Zoe or e208 you are getting a highly specified car as large as a Skoda Enyaq with same range as a mid-sized battery VAG product.

The biggest problem they are having in getting traction is that these days most cars are acquired on lease agreements and the lease companies can't figure out the residual values so are pitching the lease deals at high prices to cover themselves.

Interesting. Euronics are in Ireland as well. I wonder will my local Euronics store start selling cars

Chinese EV to hit Europe - Aiways U5

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