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President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

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    #4142
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    And everything we have seen so far shows that it did.

    It doesn't come anywhere close.

    He's entitled to ask a newly elected President of Ukraine to look into two matters of alleged corruption in that country which have affected the US. He would be remiss if he did not quite frankly.

    For three years democrats pearl cutched about election meddling and yet a clear example of it by certain Ukrainians and they don't want to know, which makes it clear that all the bleating was sanctimonious. When the Steele Dossier was shown to be full of false information, used to spy on a US candidate, the left were all but silent about it. I wonder why no outrage about who was behind it with regards to paying for its creation and publication? Not to mention that it was leaked by corrupt Obama administration officials.

    Yeah, the left are really concerned about political corruption alright.


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    #4143
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1221997760116903936


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    #4144
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I think we can sum up Trumps "defence" quite simply:

    Trump didn't do the thing he's accused of doing, but if he did it was fine, and in fact that's exactly what he did, get over it, because it's not only fine, it's precisely what we want from a president, and can you believe that Biden did the same thing, shame on him.


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    #4145
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman/status/1221997760116903936

    So there would be no issue having Bolton testify

    Glad there is some progress


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    #4146
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    It doesn't come anywhere close.

    He's entitled to ask a newly elected President of Ukraine to look into two matters of alleged corruption in that country which have affected the US. He would be remiss if he did not quite frankly.

    If corruption was so important to him why did he want ambassador Yovanovitch being taken care of ??


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    #4147
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The Steele Dossier was paid for by Republicans.

    That old chestnut. Surprised you didn't say it was barely used as prediction for the warrants anyway, as used to be said.


    https://twitter.com/repmarkmeadows/status/962726758414979077?lang=en

    That he probably cannot find Ukraine on a map is not a cause to remove him, but it's pretty disappointing that so many people wasted their votes on this ignorant con artist.

    The US economy is booming. Certain jobs Obama said would require a magic wand are back too. Not sure why anyone who voted for Trump would feel their vote was wasted.


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    #4148
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    weisses wrote: »
    If corruption was so important to him why did he want ambassador Yovanovitch being taken care of ??

    Eh, that's a strange question.

    Clearly he had been told she had bad mouthed him, was speaking about him being impeached etc. Seems he also didn't like who she was engaging with in Ukraine.

    Personally I would question some of what he was told as Parnas and Co clearly had financial motives for wanting her out themselves. That he was recording Trump shows that he was bad news and that he lied to Maddow should have people questioning pretty much everything he said.


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    #4149
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I think we can sum up Trumps "defence" quite simply:

    Trump didn't do the thing he's accused of doing, but if he did it was fine, and in fact that's exactly what he did, get over it, because it's not only fine, it's precisely what we want from a president, and can you believe that Biden did the same thing, shame on him.

    Would've been a really clever reply if only for the fact that:

    1) I never said nor suggested that if Trump asked for investigations purely for help in an election that it would be okay.
    2) Nor that such a thing would be okay for a president.
    3) That Biden done the same thing as Trump.

    Aside from those three things though, your post is spot on.


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    #4150
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,212 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Eh, that's a strange question.

    Clearly he had been told she had bad mouthed him, was speaking about him being impeached etc. Seems he also didn't like who she was engaging with in Ukraine.

    Personally I would question some of what he was told as Parnas and Co clearly had financial motives for wanting her out themselves. That he was recording Trump shows that he was bad news and that he lied to Maddow should have people questioning pretty much everything he said.

    If Trump is a paragon of virtue and a kbift for anti corruption, why'd he hide the actual recording of the call with Zelinski?
    Do you remember not answering that question when I asked it to you 5 times back when the story broke?


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    #4151
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭weisses


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Eh, that's a strange question.

    Clearly he had been told she had bad mouthed him, was speaking about him being impeached etc. Seems he also didn't like who she was engaging with in Ukraine.

    Personally I would question some of what he was told as Parnas and Co clearly had financial motives for wanting her out themselves. That he was recording Trump shows that he was bad news and that he lied to Maddow should have people questioning pretty much everything he said.

    Hmmm ... I thought the ambassador was pretty glued in in regards to corruption in the Ukraine ... Trump being tough on corruption would be very reluctant to get rid of her ... unless he had other motives


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    #4152
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    duploelabs wrote: »
    If Trump is a paragon of virtue and a kbift for anti corruption, why'd he hide the actual recording of the call with Zelinski?
    Do you remember not answering that question when I asked it to you 5 times back when the story broke?

    I answered you. You just didn't like the answer.

    Trump didn't hide the call. According to Morrison it was highly classified in error.

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    #4153
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,212 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    I answered you. You just didn't like the answer.

    Trump didn't hide the call. According to Morrison it was highly classified in error.

    Eh no you didn't as Morrison hadn't testified then


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    #4154
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    I answered you. You just didn't like the answer.

    Trump didn't hide the call. According to Morrison it was highly classified in error.

    And yet they still haven't declassified it nor have they released the ACTUAL transcript.

    Why is that?

    And if Bolton is lying and Trump didn't directly link the Ukraine investigation to his personal benefit, then get him under oath and charge him with Perjury. Get it all out in the open and on record.

    As the old saying goes "Sunlight is the best disinfectant" , but quite ironically Trump seems to not be a fan of Sunlight.


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    #4155
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,583 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    And yet they still haven't declassified it nor have they released the ACTUAL transcript.
    I was under the impression that no such actual transcript existed - that the 'memorandum' was as precise a record as existed.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=495120&d=1573569234


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    #4156
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    And yet they still haven't declassified it nor have they released the ACTUAL transcript.

    Jesus, man, we discussed this before. Vindman was asked when questioned in the damn bunker if what was released matched the call and he said it did apart for two edits (which we also discussed). If there was something substantive missing then he above all people would have made it known. I don't get why you push this so much. We have the damn call. He didn't hide it originally and he's not hiding anything now.
    And if Bolton is lying and Trump didn't directly link the Ukraine investigation to his personal benefit, then get him under oath and charge him with Perjury. Get it all out in the open and on record.

    Maybe you have missed my posts but I have been saying for months that I want to see him testify. However, that doesn't mean I think there is a damn thing wrong with Trump not letting him. Quite frankly, given the disrespect Schiff and Pelosi showed to the WH and to Republicans, I think they should make it as hard as they can for the democrats.
    As the old saying goes "Sunlight is the best disinfectant" , but quite ironically Trump seems to not be a fan of Sunlight.

    Has Michael Atkinson's testimony been released yet?


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    #4157
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    As he keeps saying, read the transcript (The one the remains classified, in error allegedly). But we're to believe the current summary (despite the previous press summary omitting lots of pertinent info), is kosher?

    What's he hiding, why are they still blocking witnesses. To clear his name it would be helpful.


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    #4158
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,854 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    Even if Joe Biden was the most corrupt politician on the planet that would be irrelevant. Either what Trump (and the trial is about Trump, nobody else) did constitutes hugh crimes and misdemeanors or it doesnt. And everything we have seen so far shows that it did.
    I think if it transpires that Biden was breaking laws then it goes away. There will be nobody left standing to carry it on.


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    #4159
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I think if it transpires that Biden was breaking laws then it goes away. There will be nobody left standing to carry it on.

    it makes no difference what biden has done. trump bribed a foreign government for his own personal benefit. that is enough to make him unfit to be president.


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    #4160
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The Steele Dossier was paid for by Republicans. That he probably cannot find Ukraine on a map is not a cause to remove him, but it's pretty disappointing that so many people wasted their votes on this ignorant con artist.
    facepalm.gif
    Oh, bother. For the 738,428,773rd time... the Steele Dossier was NOT paid for by Republicans.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4161
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    it makes no difference what biden has done. trump bribed a foreign government for his own personal benefit. that is enough to make him unfit to be president.
    It make all the difference in the world what Biden did. He bragged on TV about a quid pro quo involving the firing of the prosecutor who was investigating the company that hired his son to give them cover from US scrutiny. It shows Trump had ample reason to suggest Ukraine should look into the matter.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4162
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Macadamia50 wrote: »
    What evidence are your basing your assertion on that Trump bribed a foreign government?

    Do you know what a bribe is?

    first post on a trump thread. LOL


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    #4163
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    And yet they still haven't declassified it nor have they released the ACTUAL transcript.

    Why is that?

    And if Bolton is lying and Trump didn't directly link the Ukraine investigation to his personal benefit, then get him under oath and charge him with Perjury. Get it all out in the open and on record.

    As the old saying goes "Sunlight is the best disinfectant" , but quite ironically Trump seems to not be a fan of Sunlight.
    There's another old saying... "Actions speak louder than words."

    Did Ukraine start an investigation into the Biden’s corruption after the Trump call?

    NO.

    Did the Ukrainian president believe the money that was held up was tied to him launching an investigation into the Bidens?

    NO.

    Was the money released with no investigation, announced or undertaken, by Ukraine into the Bidens?

    YES.

    Presidents have advisors for a reason… to kick around ideas, feelings and things that obviously never come to fruition. That’s why presidents use executive privilege in these matters. Trump might have noted to Bolton he wished he could hold up money until Ukraine tackled numerous concerning corruption matters... but bottom line the Ukrainian president didn’t think there was any quid pro quo and a good portion of the money was released well ahead of the September 30, 2019 date that funds were meant to be spent.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4164
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    first post on a trump thread. LOL
    When you got nothing... attack the poster?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4165
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    There's another old saying... "Actions speak louder than words."

    Did Ukraine start an investigation into the Biden’s corruption after the Trump call?

    NO.

    Did the Ukrainian president believe the money that was held up was tied to him launching an investigation into the Bidens?

    NO.

    what are you basing that on? has zelensky given testimony?
    notobtuse wrote: »

    Was the money released with no investigation, announced or undertaken, by Ukraine into the Bidens?

    YES.
    Was the money released before or after the whistleblower came forward? can you remind us of that?


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    #4166
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    what are you basing that on? has zelensky given testimony?


    Was the money released before or after the whistleblower came forward? can you remind us of that?
    https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2019/10/01/lead-clarissa-ward-3p-live-jake-tapper.cnn

    I didn't see thumb screws being used. What evil hidden torture devices do you think were being utilized to force him into that admission?

    And I understand the money was released after a credible UFO sighting went public. OMG... ALIENS made him do it.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #4167
    MonkeyTennis
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭MonkeyTennis


    That reminds me of that time I didnt break into your house cos I got caught by the police and they just let me go because I didnt commit the crime.


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    #4168
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,854 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    it makes no difference what biden has done. trump bribed a foreign government for his own personal benefit. that is enough to make him unfit to be president.
    I fully understand that but there will be nobody to keep it going if Biden is found to have acted in a corrupt manner.
    So it makes a huge difference.


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    #4169
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,286 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2019/10/01/lead-clarissa-ward-3p-live-jake-tapper.cnn

    I didn't see thumb screws being used. What evil hidden torture devices do you think were being utilized to force him into that admission?

    And I understand the money was released after a credible UFO sighting went public. OMG... ALIENS made him do it.

    an intelligent response as always.


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    #4170
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,149 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Yeah, the left are really concerned about political corruption alright.

    Do you think the President cares one bit about corruption? He has been facilitating Russian money laundering forever through his property empire.

    The US have vested interests, military and otherwise in countless countries, most of which a rife with corruption. Does he care about those countries?

    He only is interested in Ukraine as he hoped they had dirt on his main political rival.

    He was doing this for political gain, not to fight corruption.

    He held up aid to try and get this information.

    That is an abuse of office.

    It's really not that complicated and anything else is 'whataboutery'.


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    #4171
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Can you imagine if it was proven that Trump begged a Russian president to give him space on missile defense ahead of the November election, which signaled to Russia it was free to invade the Ukraine, and then Trump sent blankets to the Ukraine in order to fight the invading army? Trump would not only be impeached but in jail deciding on his last meal.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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