Are working with or against you spouse/OH

v638sg7k1a92bx · 27-01-2020 1:45pm #1

Something I'm seeing more regularly in Ireland and picking up in conversations with couples and people in the office when speaking about their OH is this competition or toing and froing between one another. It appears to be when there are small children involved and could be down to the constant hustle of the everyday wage slave work grind. But rather than couples working together, they seem to be some type of competition or dance where "I picked up the kids for to two days so now you have to pick them up for two days" or one spouse goes out with their friends and it goes in the book to be used as credit for the other spouse to go out.

When we were going through the early years with kids, we always looked at things as a family unit rather than from our personal perspective. For example, when our kids were young my OH earned significantly more than I did so it made sense for me to let the OH do their thing in work while I took up responsibility for things at home which included stuff like picking up kids, taking care of all the school stuff because I knew that my OH salary allowed us to do certain things and go on holidays, pay for piano lessons or whatever. I understood that my OH wouldn't have been able to work properly if they were rushing out from work at 5.30pm to collect kids because it was "their turn" while I could have easily picked them up that day because my job was more flexible and easy going. We have a woman in the office who earns about €13k per year part time, her husband earns significantly more that she does yet she will wax lyrical about how when her husband comes home she hands him the kids and he has to take over all duties from then on. In mind I'm thinking, Ok so when does your OH get a break and what you do if the roles were reversed or he wanted to take a part time job?

Question is do you work with or against your OH or do you take a strict 50/50 approach and if so do you take into consideration that your OH makes more or less money than you do?

whiskeyman · 27-01-2020 1:47pm

Don't forget what people say can be very different to what people do...

27-01-2020 1:49pm

Don't have another half..

I'm a whole one..

Or well, about 3/4s anyway..

I don't even work with myself though really if I'm honest..

27-01-2020 1:52pm

Do one of you work in IT OP? The other works in a completely different field then.

The other thing I get from your opening post is the issue of whether the other spouse is perceived in buying something that will contribute to a child's development or is like a toy.

starbaby2003 · 27-01-2020 1:53pm

Or maybe some couples feel that ‘who earns more’ doesn’t mean the other person needs to constantly pick up the slack ?

s7ryf3925pivug · 27-01-2020 1:55pm

Who will answer this candidly? Only people at one or other end of the spectrum between perfect harmony and all out war. Or whose partners don't know their boards identities.

Bobblehats · 27-01-2020 1:57pm

whiskeyman wrote: »

Don't forget what people say can be very different to what people do...

That’s why I like monkeys.

Leg End Reject · 27-01-2020 1:59pm

I don't have children, but it's an unhealthy dynamic if the the partner with the lower salary feels they should pick up the slack as compensation.

You're either together or you're not in my view. If one has a better work- life balance then yes, they could do more of the household chores so there's more free time to do things together.

ahnowbrowncow · 27-01-2020 2:01pm

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Or maybe some couples feel that ‘who earns more’ doesn’t mean the other person needs to constantly pick up the slack ?

If someone working 50 hours and their spouse is working 35, imo it would be unfair to split home responsibilities 50/50.

Generally those working longer hours, earn more.

lozenges · 27-01-2020 2:10pm

Don't have kids and don't plan to. However - obviously workload should be split equally, so that if one partner is out at work more it makes for the other to take on more household/childcare duties. HOWEVER one person earning significantly more/being the sole earner does not absolve them from parenting duties altogether!

EmmetSpiceland · 27-01-2020 2:14pm

Leg End Reject wrote: »

I don't have children, but it's an unhealthy dynamic if the the partner with the lower salary feels they should pick up the slack as compensation.

You're either together or you're not in my view. If one has a better work- life balance then yes, they could do more of the household chores so there's more free time to do things together.

That’s it, L.

A lot of people are idiots. They breed with other idiots and when they have kids their combined “stupidity” messes up their development.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 27-01-2020 3:09pm

But if both spouses work 40 hours pw. One earns €20k and the other earns €150K, are they still 50/50. Does the income from the higher earner not count towards something as both spouses are benefiting from the higher salary.

Leg End Reject · 27-01-2020 3:12pm

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

But if both spouses work 40 hours pw. One earns €20k and the other earns €150K, are they still 50/50. Does the income from the higher earner not count towards something as both spouses are benefiting from the higher salary.

If there's an income of €170k they can pay people to do stuff. The person on €20k shouldn't feel they need to be a skivvy because they earn less.

EmmetSpiceland · 27-01-2020 3:16pm

Leg End Reject wrote: »

If there's an income of €170k they can pay people to do stuff. The person on €20k shouldn't feel they need to be a skivvy because they earn less.

Plus, they would, more than likely, be “jointly assessed” for tax purposes.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 27-01-2020 3:35pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Plus, they would, more than likely, be “jointly assessed” for tax purposes.

Leg End Reject wrote: »

If there's an income of €170k they can pay people to do stuff. The person on €20k shouldn't feel they need to be a skivvy because they earn less.

So the person earning €170k has to break their back to accommodate the other person. What is the €20k person bringing to the table?
"Jointly assessed" has nothing to do with it. The tax saving for being jointly assessed is about €5k.

az2wp0sye65487 · 27-01-2020 3:41pm

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

So the person earning €170k has to break their back to accommodate the other person. What is the €20k person bringing to the table?
"Jointly assessed" has nothing to do with it. The tax saving for being jointly assessed is about €5k.

Who said romance was dead.

27-01-2020 4:15pm

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

But if both spouses work 40 hours pw. One earns €20k and the other earns €150K, are they still 50/50. Does the income from the higher earner not count towards something as both spouses are benefiting from the higher salary.

The way we do it ourselves is to work out the ratios of our earnings and divvie up our expenses in relation to that. So regardless of what we earn if something is costing me 20% of my salary to pay - then it is costing them 20% of theirs too.

If after all my expenses I have 25% of my salary left to save or spend - they both do too.

It does mean the person earning more pays more - but that has never bothered us - we just stick our relevant % into a joint expense account every month and all the bills and households come out of that.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 27-01-2020 4:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The way we do it ourselves is to work out the ratios of our earnings and divvie up our expenses in relation to that. So regardless of what we earn if something is costing me 20% of my salary to pay - then it is costing them 20% of theirs too.

If after all my expenses I have 25% of my salary left to save or spend - they both do too.

It does mean the person earning more pays more - but that has never bothered us - we just stick our relevant % into a joint expense account every month and all the bills and households come out of that.

Ok so the person who earns more pays more. So the more your earn the more you pay? So you're actually being penalised for earning more?

27-01-2020 8:02pm

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

Ok so the person who earns more pays more. So the more your earn the more you pay? So you're actually being penalised for earning more?

Doesnt tax work that way too? The more you earn - the more you pay?

Whatever I earn I still come away with the same % of my overall salary as my own.

I have never looked at it as being "penalised" to be honest. Neither when I was earning more or earning less than my partners.

27-01-2020 8:19pm

Incomes are combined and treated as household income, we earn similar salaries. I work from home a great deal and find myself doing much more in the house simply because I'm there and it's handier. I don't insist he pays more of the bills because I throw the vacuum around more often than he does.

Most people try to maximise the benefit of any situation to the couple, not the individual.

Purple Mountain · 27-01-2020 8:22pm

TLDR

v638sg7k1a92bx · 27-01-2020 8:40pm

Candie wrote: »

Incomes are combined and treated as household income, we earn similar salaries. I work from home a great deal and find myself doing much more in the house simply because I'm there and it's handier. I don't insist he pays more of the bills because I throw the vacuum around more often than he does.

Most people try to maximise the benefit of any situation to the couple, not the individual.

That’s what I though but since I’ve been back in Ireland I’ve been surprised how attitudes have changed. Couples seem to approach things from an individual perspective rather than as a family unit.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 27-01-2020 8:42pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Doesnt tax work that way too? The more you earn - the more you pay?

Whatever I earn I still come away with the same % of my overall salary as my own.

I have never looked at it as being "penalised" to be honest. Neither when I was earning more or earning less than my partners.

But relationships and families don’t work that way. Let me get this straight, you split the bills based on the percentage of your earnings. So if your salary split is 70/30 you split the internet bill 70/30???
Are household tasks split on a 70/30 basis or does the salary scale not come into it?

27-01-2020 9:05pm

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

But relationships and families don’t work that way.

Except the ones that do. Relationships function based on the choices of the people within that relationship. Many function that way. Many function other ways. If you think there is some template upon which relationships function - then you could not be more wrong. They are as variable as the people in them. Relationships and families work _whatever_ way works for the people in them. Simple as. Even the simple word "penalized" makes it obvious your thinking is much different to mine on how you want your relationships to function. It is not for me - but that would not see me calling your ways "wrong" either. If your way works _for you_ then keep at it!

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

Are household tasks split on a 70/30 basis or does the salary scale not come into it?

Couldn't tell you. We each do what we are good at and enjoy the most. I for one do all the cooking because my girlfriends can not cook an oven pizza between them. They tend to do more of the cleaning. I do a lot of the DIY.

I would not even know how to scale household tasks to make them comparable to even work out what the split is. I would not even think of a reason why I might even bother to try.

But economies of scale is a wonderful thing. There is three of us in the relationship not two - but while that means 50% extra people to do the earning and the house work - it does not mean a 50% increase in expenses or work to be done. Far less than 50% in fact. So we are quote lucky in that regard. In the end housework is not an issue - and we have more time to spend with our kids than most people seem to these days.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 27-01-2020 10:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Except the ones that do. Relationships function based on the choices of the people within that relationship. Many function that way. Many function other ways. If you think there is some template upon which relationships function - then you could not be more wrong. They are as variable as the people in them. Relationships and families work _whatever_ way works for the people in them. Simple as. Even the simple word "penalized" makes it obvious your thinking is much different to mine on how you want your relationships to function. It is not for me - but that would not see me calling your ways "wrong" either. If your way works _for you_ then keep at it!

Couldn't tell you. We each do what we are good at and enjoy the most. I for one do all the cooking because my girlfriends can not cook an oven pizza between them. They tend to do more of the cleaning. I do a lot of the DIY.

I would not even know how to scale household tasks to make them comparable to even work out what the split is. I would not even think of a reason why I might even bother to try.

But economies of scale is a wonderful thing. There is three of us in the relationship not two - but while that means 50% extra people to do the earning and the house work - it does not mean a 50% increase in expenses or work to be done. Far less than 50% in fact. So we are quote lucky in that regard. In the end housework is not an issue - and we have more time to spend with our kids than most people seem to these days.

Well actually you couldn't be more wrong. There is a proven tried and tested template upon which successful relationships function, particularly when it comes to children in those relationships. It involves one father and one mother in a stable supportive relationship not divvying up the workload based on salary levels and economies of scale.

Wildly Boaring · 27-01-2020 10:34pm

The day we got married we got a joint account and have not brought up differing salaries since.

We split the workload as much as possible to get us both finished by the same time in the evening.

I get up early Saturday, she gets up early sunday
We attempt to split cleaning of house, gardening, shopping over the weekend. Honestly sometimes it's handier do the garden or Hoover than bring 2 lunatics to the playground.

We try to pawn the kiddos off on an unsuspecting grandparent or uncle once a fortnight and get away even just for a hike or a pint.

So yeah OP splitting evenly as possible is working for us...so far

27-01-2020 10:36pm

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

Well actually you couldn't be more wrong. There is a proven tried and tested template upon which successful relationships function, particularly when it comes to children in those relationships. It involves one father and one mother in a stable supportive relationship not divvying up the workload based on salary levels and economies of scale.

"Citations needed". You say it's "proven" by all means cite the science on it. Or admit you are making it up off the top of your head - and you are the one that could not be more wrong.

You are talking nonsense though. There are many relationships out there. Perfectly successful - with perfectly healthy children. With two men. Two women. Or like my relationship - more. Every one of them is proof positive you are talking tripe here based on nothing at all you have shown yet.

It has never once in fact been shown that the "one mother one father" dynamic is the "ideal" for example - let alone the exclusive success template. Quite the opposite in fact - some studies I can cite find the opposite is true.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 27-01-2020 11:20pm

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Or maybe some couples feel that ‘who earns more’ doesn’t mean the other person needs to constantly pick up the slack ?

True, both jobs might be equally as time-consuming and taxing.

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

If someone working 50 hours and their spouse is working 35, imo it would be unfair to split home responsibilities 50/50.

Generally those working longer hours, earn more.

Okay, how about, say, a software developer and a nurse, both working full-time. One is generally going to pay more than the other but would you say the higher earner is going to be the more knackered of the two?

v638sg7k1a92bx · 27-01-2020 11:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

"Citations needed". You say it's "proven" by all means cite the science on it. Or admit you are making it up off the top of your head - and you are the one that could not be more wrong.

You are talking nonsense though. There are many relationships out there. Perfectly successful - with perfectly healthy children. With two men. Two women. Or like my relationship - more. Every one of them is proof positive you are talking tripe here based on nothing at all you have shown yet.

It has never once in fact been shown that the "one mother one father" dynamic is the "ideal" for example - let alone the exclusive success template. Quite the opposite in fact - some studies I can cite find the opposite is true.

There are mountains of evidence to prove that a "traditional" family is the best environment to raise children in almost every aspect:Educational, socially, mentally, much more likely to go to university, statistically more unlikely to go to prison, less likely to use drugs or have addiction. The list just goes on and on. The evidence on this has been around for years, a simple Google would show you this.

27-01-2020 11:36pm

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

There are mountains of evidence to prove that a "traditional" family is the best environment to raise children in almost every aspect

Amazing though is it not that when asked _directly_ for some of that evidence all you can do is wave your hands and assure me there is loads of it. Yet some how - you got nuttin. Quelle Suprise.

So you got nothing but assumptions. Meanwhile in the real world there are many relationships not conforming to your imaginary template that are working out perfectly fine - as are their children and their finances and their household lives.

Navel gazing too deeply makes one miss the real world around you. Look up and out from time to time.

njburke · 28-01-2020 12:00am

I suppose it comes down to fair division and what each couple perceives as fair. The purpose of the notebook to record who does what in order to maintain fairness. The problems arise when one person feels the division has not been fair. If work for one partner hectic at end of year or whatever and the other person has to do more, that maybe all that is necessary is for one to acknowledge that, and say they'll make up for it when they get a chance.

Are working with or against you spouse/OH

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