Are working with or against you spouse/OH

v638sg7k1a92bx

Stateofyou wrote: »

Relieved to hopefully be let off the hook in proving an absurd claim, that even a Mod asked you to basically put up or shut up? :pac: And for the second time, for the record, you brought up that "There is a proven tried and tested template upon which successful relationships function, particularlywhen it comes to children in those relationships. It involves one father and one mother in a stable supportive relationship..."

The debate isn't about gay marriage. That is a very disingenuous comment, and you know it.

Issue was taken with your statement, yet you will provide no proof of that claim that you say has been well established over 70 years.

The issue some have with that statement is that contrary to your claim, research actually shows there is not just one template. Same sex gender parents are equally successful in rearing children as heterosexual parents are (and some outcomes show they fare even better within the latter) according to researched outcomes.

Regardless of gender, spouses and parents working together to maintain a stable and loving environment free from major resentment is going to be healthiest for all.

OMG the mod told me so I must be wrong. So are you suggesting that having a mother and father in a stable relationship is not a suitable environment to raise children. I'm confused what part of that do you have an issue with?

lozenges

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

So are you suggesting that having a mother and father in a stable relationship is not a suitable environment to raise children. I'm confused what part of that do you have an issue with?

No. They're saying that it's not the only suitable environment. But you know that...

andekwarhola

Splitting 50/50 isn't always fair. We don't have a joint account - except for a college/whatever account for the kids - we've always had separate accounts. My wife works part time so I pay the majority of total household outgoings.

My wife does more than me on the housework and cooking front but I always did more children stuff like extracurricular stuff or weekend care (my wife often works weekends). It about finding a balance you're both OK with, not what other people think is suitable.

Stateofyou

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

OMG the mod told me so I must be wrong. So are you suggesting that having a mother and father in a stable relationship is not a suitable environment to raise children. I'm confused what part of that do you have an issue with?

You're not confused, you're deliberately disingenuous.

The mod didn't insinuate you were right or wrong. The mod told you what the rest of us are saying or thinking: prove your point already.

It's possible to simply say that you hadn't thought of same sex parents when you wrote that earlier comment, and you'd like to amend that to include them, in light of well established research. Or do you have too much pride to admit when you make an inaccurate statement? You won't be flogged for it, in fact I'm sure many would appreciate it and hold you in higher regard. This digging your heels in stubbornly is what reflects poorly.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Stateofyou wrote: »

You're not confused, you're deliberately disingenuous.

The mod didn't insinuate you were right or wrong. The mod told you what the rest of us are saying or thinking: prove your point already.

It's possible to simply say that you hadn't thought of same sex parents when you wrote that earlier comment, and you'd like to amend that to include them, in light of well established research. Or do you have too much pride to admit when you make an inaccurate statement? You won't be flogged for it, in fact I'm sure many would appreciate it and hold you in higher regard. This digging your heels in stubbornly is what reflects poorly.

There is no well established research when it comes to same sex parenting because there isn't enough high quality data to make that assertion.

Caroline Jealous Tart

Excuse any typos - I have just under 4 minutes to type this

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

That assumption is questionable.

Not really because you then go on to say -

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

It can happen and it can happen very well and some people do it

- which is what my point has been from start to finish. There are other ways to do it and they can work very well. That is all I have been saying! Yet when I explained how it works _for me_ you screeched that "relationships don't work that way". So you directly contradict yourself. The simple fact is some relationships do work that way. Quite well. That is all I have been saying - literally.

Here however -

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

but I know other people who have been traumatised because the relationship wasn’t stable enough.

- we are totally in 100% agreement. No relationship type is perfect - even the one you might promote. They all have many many examples of failure - even to the point some people never get over it entirely.

The "tried and tested" standard you go on about has the majority of examples of failure. Not because it is worse - but simply because it is the most common type so there will be more examples of it crashing and burning.

I do not think anyone here claimed any given template is perfect or never fails. I certainly have not. Has anyone?

v638sg7k1a92bx

Deleted User wrote: »

Excuse any typos - I have just under 4 minutes to type this

Not really because you then go on to say -

- which is what my point has been from start to finish. There are other ways to do it and they can work very well. That is all I have been saying! Yet when I explained how it works _for me_ you screeched that "relationships don't work that way". So you directly contradict yourself. The simple fact is some relationships do work that way. Quite well. That is all I have been saying - literally.

Here however -

- we are totally in 100% agreement. No relationship type is perfect - even the one you might promote. They all have many many examples of failure - even to the point some people never get over it entirely.

The "tried and tested" standard you go on about has the majority of examples of failure. Not because it is worse - but simply because it is the most common type so there will be more examples of it crashing and burning.

I do not think anyone here claimed any given template is perfect or never fails. I certainly have not. Has anyone?

You cannot take individual cases and say "I know four men and a dog who have 2 kids and they have a great life" and then try and use that to make the broad argument. Yes there are non traditional families that work but as a general assumption, if you were to place a child in care with a family, a traditional married mother and father is still considered the gold standard which is backed up by the data.

nozzferrahhtoo

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

if you were to place a child in care with a family, a traditional married mother and father is still considered the gold standard which is backed up by the data.

Could you show some of that data please? Specifically...... if possible........ anything more recent, or anything that contradicts the studies already linked to in the thread?

R.F.

Marissa Disgusting Seller wrote: »

We both earn our salaries, paid into our own accounts and spend/save as we each want with bills Split 50/50. We have a joint account but would never even enter our heads to get our salaries paid into it as my salary is mine and hers is hers. We used to lodge some money into the joint account each money to cover bills and shopping etc but now with Revolut it’s almost redundant. If I pay for the shopping I send a split bill request to my wife and she sends me on the money and vice versa.

Outside of shared expanses we look after our own finances individually, have our own savings accounts, own investments etc. I’d hate this all money goes into one joint account way some couples do things, just wouldn’t be for us.

Each to their own but I cannot imagine sending my wife a split bill request.

We have always been joint account and everything I own is hers and vice versa

Deleted User wrote: »

There is three of us in the relationship not two .

Was this bit lost on everyone with this guy?

v638sg7k1a92bx

R.F. wrote: »

Each to their own but I cannot imagine sending my wife a split bill request.

We have always been joint account and everything I own is hers and vice versa



Was this bit lost on everyone with this guy?

No, they talk about it constantly.

Princess Calla

R.F. wrote: »

Was this bit lost on everyone with this guy?

No, he's fairly upfront about it.

He lives with two girlfriends, I think at this stage both of the girls have a child with him too.

Caroline Jealous Tart

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

You cannot take individual cases

But I am not - you are. There are links to interesting studies on the thread. You are the only one relying _solely_ on lines likes "I know people".

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

if you were to place a child in care with a family, a traditional married mother and father is still considered the gold standard which is backed up by the data.

Not true at all. In fact homosexual couples have been a great result for adoption of "problem kids" such as kids who are older than most people like to adopt them at - kids of races outside the local majority - or kids with troubled back grounds.

As for "gold standard" which data backs that up here? Cite some please. It might have been the _traditional_ standard for a very long time when other family types were not even legal - but an appeal to tradition is not an appeal to a gold standard.

v638sg7k1a92bx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But I am not - you are. There are links to interesting studies on the thread. You are the only one relying _solely_ on lines likes "I know people".



Not true at all. In fact homosexual couples have been a great result for adoption of "problem kids" such as kids who are older than most people like to adopt them at - kids of races outside the local majority - or kids with troubled back grounds.

Homosexual couples have been a great result for problem kids? That’s is about as big a generalisation you can get and yet in the same breath you ask me to “cite evidence” “peer reviewed”
Aren’t you embarrassed?

Ted_YNWA

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

Homosexual couples have been a great result for problem kids? That’s is about as big a generalisation you can get and yet in the same breath you ask me to “cite evidence” “peer reviewed”
Aren’t you embarrassed?

Mod

Everyone - we have all had enough of this merry-go-round

Caroline Jealous Tart - Nobody is asking for "peer reviewed", just any news article or something will do.

You have a couple of options available.

a) Either back up your claims with something
b) drop the constant "I have proof" comments
or
c) stop posting by your own choice
d) the choice will be made for you.


Everyone else - choices c & d are available for dragging the topic back to this.

R.F.

R.F. wrote: »

Each to their own but I cannot imagine sending my wife a split bill request.

We have always been joint account and everything I own is hers and vice versa

It's just the norm for us, we would both be splitting bills are sending money back and forth using revolut on a daily basis. I can't remember the figures but my revreview for 2019 we had a huge number of transfers back and forth to each other.

We just wouldn't see it as fair doing it any other way as you would be using the other persons money. In fact we don't necessarily always split the bills either we would also split out certain things from a shopping bill (for example) that the other wouldn't use and fully reimburse the other person of these and that sort of thing. Like say she doesn't drink beer and I'd always have beer so I'd fully cover the cost of that rather then it being part of the split bill, like wise a bottle of red wine she would fully cover, I buy lunch everyday she brings lunch so she would cover her lunch ingredients fully and reimburse me etc etc.

R.F.

Marissa Disgusting Seller wrote: »

It's just the norm for us, we would both be splitting bills are sending money back and forth using revolut on a daily basis. I can't remember the figures but my revreview for 2019 we had a huge number of transfers back and forth to each other.

We just wouldn't see it as fair doing it any other way as you would be using the other persons money. In fact we don't necessarily always split the bills either we would also split out certain things from a shopping bill (for example) that the other wouldn't use and fully reimburse the other person of these and that sort of thing. Like say she doesn't drink beer and I'd always have beer so I'd fully cover the cost of that rather then it being part of the split bill, like wise a bottle of red wine she would fully cover, I buy lunch everyday she brings lunch so she would cover her lunch ingredients fully and reimburse me etc etc.

This sounds more like a contract.

What happens when you go for a meal or drinks? Or say walking by a Costa or Starbucks to pick up coffees for the both of you?

nthclare

Looking out from my ivory tower...

Reading these posts have solidified the advantages of having a house without a mortgage and being independent, and having a secure public sector job.

v638sg7k1a92bx

R.F. wrote: »

This sounds more like a contract.

What happens when you got for a meal or drinks? Or say walking by a Costa or Starbucks to pick up coffees for the both of you?

I know someone like this. If he goes to supervalu to pick up a few things and it comes to €40, he comes home with the receipt and she'll hand him €20. Utterly bizarre for a married couple.

AmberGold

As someone who works in a high stress role (& pays for everything, helps out where I can etc.) I can totally relate to the "her husband comes home she hands him the kids and he has to take over all duties from then on".

Whats most annoying to me is the counting, checking and making sure you are doing your share of drops, runs, whatever etc. and being taken to task regurlarly over it.

For the OH who's the child of an alcoholic who did F'all, ever its probably ingrained that they feel short changed.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Marissa Disgusting Seller wrote: »

We just wouldn't see it as fair doing it any other way as you would be using the other persons money.

Not sure about your situation, but we're a married couple and so there is no "other person's money" anymore. All money is our money.

We talk over major purchases and financial decisions, but don't sweat the small stuff. A relationship where she comes home going "I spent €30 at Tesco so you owe me €15" sounds like a nightmare.

v638sg7k1a92bx

AmberGold wrote: »

As someone who works in a high stress role (& pays for everything, helps out where I can etc.) I can totally relate to the "her husband comes home she hands him the kids and he has to take over all duties from then on".

Yes but what I don't get is that one parent comes home form work and starts another job so they don't get any break. Whereas the "childminder" only works during the day. I'm seeing this alot more where there seems to be less value placed on the role of the provider and all the attention is focused on the parent who stays at home and how difficult it is when actually minding children is not that hard, I don't know why people make such a big deal about it and constantly talk about it.

JohnnyFlash

Permabear, Nox, taxAHcruel in one thread - top class.

Just needs Aongus to arrive in and tell us about how he lodges 5000 a month into his partner’s account as she only makes 140k a year.

R.F.

R.F. wrote: »

This sounds more like a contract.

What happens when you go for a meal or drinks? Or say walking by a Costa or Starbucks to pick up coffees for the both of you?

Meal we would either split the bill or alternate paying, we eat out/get takeaway 2 or 3 times a week at least so its easy to remember who paid the last time. Drinks just alternate rounds as you would with anyone.

Something like coffees would just be bought and forgotten about in most cases, wouldn't be bothered about splitting that cost.

Caroline Jealous Tart wrote: »

I know someone like this. If he goes to supervalu to pick up a few things and it comes to €40, he comes home with the receipt and she'll hand him €20. Utterly bizarre for a married couple.

Don't do it as much now but we used to always go though the receipts after shopping and tot up who owes what. Like to me it makes perfect sense. If I buy beer every time we shop that comes to 15 euro or whatever how is that fair or if she buys stuff for her lunch and thats even split 50:50 I'm paying for my own lunch in the shop everyday and half of her lunch everyday. That adds up over time to be a fair bit of money.

Permabear II wrote: »

Not sure about your situation, but we're a married couple and so there is no "other person's money" anymore. All money is our money.

We talk over major purchases and financial decisions, but don't sweat the small stuff. A relationship where she comes home going "I spent €30 at Tesco so you owe me €15" sounds like a nightmare.

Prefer to each have our own money and share expenses personally. Your second point is one of the reasons, I don't want to have to discuss what I buy and make a "joint decision" on it. If for example I want to change my car, I'll obvioulsy be taking about it and the cars I was looking at etc but it would be my money and my decision not really open for discussion whether it was happening or not. That's a bit of an extreme example but I've seen heard people say they have to "discuss" buying something for 100 euro, that would drive me nuts.

Obviously on a very large scale like buying/building a house its a bit different but thats more the exception than the norm.

It's rarely I would arrive home asking for 15 euro, Id have the revolut request sent before leaving the shop

mariaalice

Nobody knows what goes on in anyone else's relationship, but i do wonder what happens in its a fifty-fifty relationship when they come underpressure endless screaming baby and no sex or even more serious one partner gets cancer or other serious illness, or a child dies, or any of the thing life can throw at you. The sort of life issues that require you to drop all the pretense and give of yourself.

Would it's a strictly fifty fifty relationship come under more pressure and end with one saying I'm out of here this isn't what I want.

LirW

I feel an arrangement like this only ever works for as long as both spouses earn their money under similar circumstances.
These dynamics change quite a bit though when children come along and one partner is at home and doesn't have any income or gets maternity pay. Or one spouse suddenly cannot work due to health issues or injury.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

It's all pretty ad hoc with us, our earnings are similar over the course of the year, but mine are steadier and more predictable, I probably cover a bit more of the day to day stuff. Been a good while since we bothered splitting a grocery bill. I covered a couple of biggish expenses for him this month, we would keep track there. No joint account or anything.

He's home more so he does more (he's also better at it, comes from tidy people). But then he might be gone for a few days or working 12 hour days at home to meet a deadline, and then I pick up the slack. I actually find it hard to adjust to now if he's away and I've to fend for myself, I end up having toast and a pack of grapes for dinner or something.

I'm looking at returning to education to qualify in something in the medium term, he'll have to shoulder a bit more then.

It works for us, that doesn't mean it's objectively better. I know couples who pool everything, fastidiously divide everything. There's not one right or wrong way.