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Does "good" and "evil" exist?

  • 26-01-2020 08:47PM
    #1
    badabing106
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭


    Is the concept of good and evil merely a human construct, or does good and evil actually exist in nature? If it does exist, what are some examples of verifiable good and evil creatures?


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Comments

  • #2
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    It’s a human construct regarding moral standards, nature doesn’t have a conscience.


  • #3
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    That would be an ecumenical matter.


  • #4
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,362 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Human creation.

    No animal could be evil surely.

    They don't kill to inflict pain or suffering. They do it due to evolution and no other reason.


  • #5
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    So not another Mr F thread?


  • #6
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    If by nature you mean the Natural world, then the concepts of good and evil don't exist. There are tenderness and savagery in nature but not the moral concepts of good and evil.


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  • #7
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    badabing106 wrote: »
    Is the concept of good and evil merely a human construct, or does good and evil actually exist in nature? If it does exist, what are some examples of verifiable good and evil creatures?

    Creatures eg dogs and cats. can show and live deep loyalty and devotion and affection. OR viciousness. According to how we as humans with our knowledge of good and evil, treat them.

    So yes and the responsibility s ours

    Also some breeds of eg dogs are naturally more loving and loyal than others.

    This applies to almost every critter we use. Our responsibility also

    So they have the potential.

    SO yes, and the responsibility is oursnr tae\hgppgdewjpw h t\messlnes\\\sooudu t\ dccaa


  • #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Creatures eg dogs and cats. can show and live deep loyalty and devotion and affection. OR viciousness. According to how we as humans with our knowledge of good and evil, treat them.

    So yes and the responsibility s ours

    Also some breeds of eg dogs are naturally more loving and loyal than others.

    This applies to almost every critter we use. Our responsibility also

    So they have the potential.

    SO yes, and the responsibility is oursnr tae\hgppgdewjpw h t\messlnes\\\sooudu t\ dccaa

    Do humans transfer the concepts of good & evil to dogs & cats via osmosis? You're projecting here.


  • #9
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    badabing106 wrote: »
    Is the concept of good and evil merely a human construct, or does good and evil actually exist in nature? If it does exist, what are some examples of verifiable good and evil creatures?

    If you don't believe in God it has to be a human construct because there is no objective source of moral truth. Moral judgements become relative and anything can be argued to be good or evil based on opinion.

    I'm a Christian so I believe God has declared to us what is good and what is evil in His Word and most supremely in His Son Jesus Christ. Ultimately God will judge the world for our sin. Christianity provides a clear objective standard for what is good and what is evil. All humans have done things which are wicked. God gave His Son Jesus to die in our place so we can stand forgiven rather than condemned and we can stand as children of God adopted into His family.

    If you want to find out more check out the Christianity forum on Boards.


  • #10
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Do humans transfer the concepts of good & evil to dogs & cats via osmosis? You're projecting here.

    We train them, or mistreat them, leading to character traits but it's not nature when we look at the behaviour of not only domesticated animals but those we have deliberately trained and taught acceptable traits.
    Wild dog species and non domesticated cat species don't engage in goodness nor evil, they simply do what must be done for the survival of the species; be that adopting a communal sharing lifestyle or a solitary one. In all cases they will kill to eat, without compunction.


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    theological wrote: »
    Christianity provides a clear objective standard for what is good and what is evil.

    "Objective" in your eyes. Thankfully you don't speak for me, or the human race at large.


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  • #12
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    theological wrote: »
    If you don't believe in God it has to be a human construct because there is no objective source of moral truth. Moral judgements become relative and anything can be argued to be good or evil based on opinion.

    I'm a Christian so I believe God has declared to us what is good and what is evil in His Word and most supremely in His Son Jesus Christ. Ultimately God will judge the world for our sin. Christianity provides a clear objective standard for what is good and what is evil. All humans have done things which are wicked. God gave His Son Jesus to die in our place so we can stand forgiven rather than condemned and we can stand as children of God adopted into His family.

    If you want to find out more check out the Christianity forum on Boards.
    And, being a Christian, I agree with much of that. But do good and evil exist in Nature, is the real question.


  • #13
    corner of hells
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Wasps are evil.

    Particularly those ones hanging round the bottle bank on a summers eve.
    Drunk on cheap Lidl wine , showing off, trying to impress their mates by stinging me.

    Little flyin' drunken Nazi's.


  • #14
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Is "man" and "woman" sexist?

    Is it a social construct. God and the devil exists in everybody it's a matter of who we allow to win out. The two cannot coexist or they will be at odds with each other; creating inner turmoil.


  • #15
    Steve456
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭Steve456


    theological wrote: »
    If you don't believe in God it has to be a human construct because there is no objective source of moral truth. Moral judgements become relative and anything can be argued to be good or evil based on opinion.

    But there are many different gods suggested down the years - which one is the best to follow can only be based on opinion.

    Or did you mean that your god is the real one, and all the others are human constructs?


  • #16
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    theological wrote: »
    Christianity provides a clear objective standard for what is good and what is evil.


    Respectfully, I would have agreed with you up to that point. Christianity, by definition, does not, and can not, provide an objective standard of what is good and what is evil. It can provide standards, certainly, but those standards of good and evil are neither clear nor objective, and are the subject of millennia of interpretation by humans.


  • #17
    Feisar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,033 ✭✭✭Feisar


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Human creation.

    No animal could be evil surely.

    They don't kill to inflict pain or suffering. They do it due to evolution and no other reason.

    Go look at a cat playing with a mouse and come back to me.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #18
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Respectfully, I would have agreed with you up to that point. Christianity, by definition, does not, and can not, provide an objective standard of what is good and what is evil. It can provide standards, certainly, but those standards of good and evil are neither clear nor objective, and are the subject of millennia of interpretation by humans.

    If you don't believe in God or that He is going to judge the world objectively on His standards then I can understand why you think there is no objective morality. I just disagree with your assumption. If God judges the world on His standards then the moral standard is objective and the only interpretation that will matter will be His. I know I've failed to live according to God's standard. That's why I'm thankful for God's grace in Jesus Christ.

    I understand you may disagree.


  • #19
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Feisar wrote: »
    Go look at a cat playing with a mouse and come back to me.

    Yes, I'd rephrase it to wild animals. Domesticated cats play with their prey because they have an innate instinct to hunt but no longer need to do so for food. Some wild animals will give prey still alive to their young so they may practice their hunting skills, but it's not done with evil intent.


  • #20
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭nthclare


    I find it hard to get my head around people worshiping a so called diety which sacrificed his son by torturing him so as to manipulate unfortunates into thinking its ok to kill one's child for the good of humanity.
    Actually the Abrahamic god seems to like sh1t testing people and suggesting that they kill their kids to validate themselves with their oppressor.

    Thou shalt not kill.

    GOD Hi Micke im feeling a bit insecure today, so will you kill your young lad there to make me feel more secure about myself as I get a sense you're not worshipping me enough

    Mike hopefully goes to the therapist or psychologist to find out why some imaginary talking fire appears in front of him.


  • #21
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    theological wrote: »
    If you don't believe in God or that He is going to judge the world objectively on His standards then I can understand why you think there is no objective morality. I just disagree with your assumption. If God judges the world on His standards then the moral standard is objective and the only interpretation that will matter will be His. I know I've failed to live according to God's standard. That's why I'm thankful for God's grace in Jesus Christ.

    I understand you may disagree.


    I do believe in God, and I am Christian, but binding morality to God and suggesting that is somehow an objective standard when it is clearly not a standard that is outside of human perception means that Christianity can not provide an objective standard. That’s playing fast and loose with the word ‘objective’, and given how many different ways in which the word of God can be and has been interpreted, the standards offered by Christianity and the various denominations within it are anything but clear.


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  • #22
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    I do believe in God, and I am Christian, but binding morality to God and suggesting that is somehow an objective standard when it is clearly not a standard that is outside of human perception means that Christianity can not provide an objective standard. That’s playing fast and loose with the word ‘objective’, and given how many different ways in which the word of God can be and has been interpreted, the standards offered by Christianity and the various denominations within it are anything but clear.

    Who said I'm "binding morality to God"?

    That's the wrong way around from a Biblical perspective. God has spoken in His Word so if anything His standards are binding on us.

    If the judgement that God gives to the world is objective (as Scripture says it will be) then the moral standard will be objectively binding because all people everywhere will be judged according to it by God.

    The point about denominations misses the point somewhat. It doesn't matter what the Catholic Church or Presbyterians or Anglican church thinks about X. What matters is what God thinks.

    Hopefully faithful churches will look to Scripture rather than themselves but God's standard is His, not ours to play with.


  • #23
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Do humans transfer the concepts of good & evil to dogs & cats via osmosis? You're projecting here.

    No; and no I am not projecting. We can only assess and experience eg good and evil via acts. They are not valid as abstracts. Only as how they are lived.

    The way we treat and care for and love animals can change them to more loving and yes selfless creatures. Lok at eg Grayfriars Bobby.

    Nothing to do with osmosis but our living of good and evil.

    And this is something I see on a daily basis.

    And we can change a wild creature into a loving and loyal one by our treatment of it. There is thus no such thing as defining a creature by its wild state, Children can be equally feral as wild critters unless they are trained.


  • #24
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    theological wrote: »
    If you don't believe in God it has to be a human construct because there is no objective source of moral truth. Moral judgements become relative and anything can be argued to be good or evil based on opinion.

    I'm a Christian so I believe God has declared to us what is good and what is evil in His Word and most supremely in His Son Jesus Christ. Ultimately God will judge the world for our sin. Christianity provides a clear objective standard for what is good and what is evil. All humans have done things which are wicked. God gave His Son Jesus to die in our place so we can stand forgiven rather than condemned and we can stand as children of God adopted into His family.

    If you want to find out more check out the Christianity forum o

    Better to read the Gospel of Matthew.. ]


  • #25
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Feisar wrote: »
    Go look at a cat playing with a mouse and come back to me.

    Acat will play with a toy filled with catnip, or a feather and as for prey drive? We are far worse than any critter.


  • #26
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    I do believe in God, and I am Christian, but binding morality to God and suggesting that is somehow an objective standard when it is clearly not a standard that is outside of human perception means that Christianity can not provide an objective standard. That’s playing fast and loose with the word ‘objective’, and given how many different ways in which the word of God can be and has been interpreted, the standards offered by Christianity and the various denominations within it are anything but clear.[/QUOTE



    Just read Matthew 25 onwards please. Stop overthinking what is utterly simple. Jesus is our gold standard, pure and simple. LIVE His Word.


  • #27
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    The seagulls in north county Dublin are the epitome of evil.


  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is no 'good' or 'evil'
    People of all backgrounds do commit bad acts.
    Good people can do bad things.
    Also, people others think of as bad, do good things.
    It doesn't apply in nature at all, animals have no moral sense of right or wrong, or good or evil.


  • #29
    peddlelies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 840 ✭✭✭peddlelies




  • #30
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    theological wrote: »
    Who said I'm "binding morality to God"?

    That's the wrong way around from a Biblical perspective. God has spoken in His Word so if anything His standards are binding on us.

    If the judgement that God gives to the world is objective (as Scripture says it will be) then the moral standard will be objectively binding because all people everywhere will be judged according to it by God.

    The point about denominations misses the point somewhat. It doesn't matter what the Catholic Church or Presbyterians or Anglican church thinks about X. What matters is what God thinks.

    Hopefully faithful churches will look to Scripture rather than themselves but God's standard is His, not ours to play with.


    It’s not missing the point. It is the point. Your interpretation of scripture is not the same as that of the Catholic Church or any of the other various denominations of Christianity which interpret scripture according to what they believe God intended for humanity, so to say that your interpretation is objective and others aren’t is basically putting your interpretations of God’s word forward as what you claim is an objective standard provided by Christianity. I don’t agree that there is anything objective in a subjective interpretation of God’s word.


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  • #31
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    bubblypop wrote: »
    There is no 'good' or 'evil'
    People of all backgrounds do commit bad acts.
    Good people can do bad things.
    Also, people others think of as bad, do good things.
    It doesn't apply in nature at all, animals have no moral sense of right or wrong, or good or evil.

    There is a tug of war inside of you


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