General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

is_that_so · 26-01-2020 01:06PM

wmahcm wrote: »

If you don't believe in any of the choices on the ballot, and consciously object object to all of them, and have no option to vote for "none of the above" as you should in a true democracy. .why should you collaborate in their election ?

Then you need to take a look at yourself if you consciously object to 12 candidates plus. We actually did vote none of the above in 2016. If they are all so bad face the people yourself or back someone who would do whatever it is you want done.

Water John · 26-01-2020 01:06PM

The last thing we need is a Govn't with a massive majority eg FF/FG . It would get arrogant and stale in no time. Bad for the country. Basically one party Govn't
Coalitions are better as extreme tendencies are modified.

The main fear of many of the parties is that SF in Govn't might not be subject only to the influence of their elected TDs. That power may lie elsewhere.

KevRossi · 26-01-2020 01:09PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I note that Arlene Foster is appearing on The Late Late this Friday. Sinn Fein people irate about it.

I would have thought this would do favours for Sinn Fein as she is so unpopular here.

As much as I dislike SF, this is a stunt by RTE. Foster witnessed her father getting shot, this will be brought up by Tubridy, he'll try to be subtle about it, but he'll milk the IRA-SF thing as much as possible. He has neither the nuance nor the skill to make this work as an anti-SF segment.

They have had 3 years of stalemate in NI, as well as the last 12 months of BREXIT chaos to get her on the TV and they only manage this in the week before a GE. That stinks.

Go and look at his 'interviews' with Enda Kenny and Adams over the years, compare these with the interviews with Cowan. Marked difference, his pro-FF bias sticks out.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Tubridy will have the onus of balance on him surely. If she is allowed to talk about SF he (RTE) will have to provide the balance.

Tubridy can't do balance, he's an appalling political interviewer. He's only suited to jokey celeb interviews, getting tears out of people suffering sickness and death and fawning over the likes of Hilary Clinton.

LeBash · 26-01-2020 01:10PM

iCareNotOneJot wrote: »

If I genuinely dont like, or believe in, any of the candidates on the ballot, why should I vote for any of them?

I am interested to hear why other people are voting, what they expect from their next goverment ?

If you feel so that way by the whole thing, go down and spoil your vote. Those spoiled votes are counted and announced.

I'd love a voting card that had a box for no confidence in all running on the card, so a spoiled vote cant be explained off as mistakes on a card. You can be sure "no confidence" would win in several constituencies.

It might not have an effect on that election but it would probably open up the door to real people in the real world running or at least have politicians actually take heed at a door to what people want.

I kind of agree with the OP. The Daíl and Seanad is collection of degenerates and weirdos so vast that compares to Jim Jones and his church together in Guyana.

road_high · 26-01-2020 01:11PM

SF are far closer to FF really- both are extremely wreckless economically with high welfare/big governement ideologies. FF are just SF lite

charlie14 · 26-01-2020 01:13PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Not if they are up against a 2 seat strategy by FF and FG. Both can be good in vote management. SF election day turnout tends to fall away from what polls claim.

If they are around the 20% mark in a 4 or 5 seat constituency running two would still have virtually guaranteed them one with a shot at a second though.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 01:14PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Then you need to take a look at yourself if you consciously object to 12 candidates plus. We actually did vote none of the above in 2016. If they are all so bad face the people yourself or back someone who would do whatever it is you want done.

Firstly, you have no idea about the candidates or the number of them in my area.

Secondly you don't dictate what I or anyone else should think, do, or not do, or what opinion they should have about them. I don't dictate to you what you should do / not do / think / or what opinion you should hold.

Thirdly there is no "vote for none of the above" option in any ballot in Ireland, if there was I would be happy to exercise it in this particular ballot.

Water John · 26-01-2020 01:16PM

One would need to see the regional breakdown. It's not one strategy for all areas, for any party.

charlie14 · 26-01-2020 01:19PM

Water John wrote: »

One would need to see the regional breakdown. It's not one strategy for all areas, for any party.

True, but on those poll figures if they do carry through too polling day then it is likely they will have left seats behind them imo.

Drumpot · 26-01-2020 01:19PM

LeBash wrote: »

If you feel so that way by the whole thing, go down and spoil your vote. Those spoiled votes are counted and announced.

I'd love a voting card that had a box for no confidence in all running on the card, so a spoiled vote cant be explained off as mistakes on a card. You can be sure "no confidence" would win in several constituencies.

It might not have an effect on that election but it would probably open up the door to real people in the real world running or at least have politicians actually take heed at a door to what people want.

I kind of agree with the OP. The Daíl and Seanad is collection of degenerates and weirdos so vast that compares to Jim Jones and his church together in Guyana.

Yes, no confidence should definitely be on the ballot.

I used to have delusions of grandeur with regards to politics and was quite passionate about people voting for even “the least worst candidate” but age, experience and exploration of human behaviour in general have amended my views.

There is a mass delusion among those heavily invested in parties and politics in general. On one hand there is the pragmatic fact that, unless we change how we run the country, we need people to be elected. But what is on offer to people at every election is just a change of the same thing relative to what we got before it. It really is a choice to just move deck chairs around the same boat.

Vote for any individual in a party and you are voting for that party, not the individual. Vote for independent is effectively a spoiled vote in terms of what good it will do nationally. And if that independent joins some sort of independent coalition or party you have given a vote to something you didn’t necessarily want when you voted for them. Yeh , you can not vote for them the next time but you face the same problem.

Things haven’t changed much since I’ve shown an interest in politics (less so the last decade or so). I do think we should all vote but “no confidence” would be a fantastic Way to make a statement to politicians that may even as you say encourage different kind of politics or people. Not voting comes across as apathy, voting no confidence creates an opening for new blood to try to please.

is_that_so · 26-01-2020 01:27PM

wmahcm wrote: »

Firstly, you have no idea about the candidates or the number of them in my area.

Secondly you don't dictate what I or anyone else should think, do, or not do, or what opinion they should have about them. I don't dictate to you what you should do / not do / think / or what opinion you should hold.

Thirdly there is no "vote for none of the above" option in any ballot in Ireland, if there was I would be happy to exercise it in this particular ballot.

So glad you got that off your chest. At the end of the day all you really have is an opinion and that's fine but following the tenor of your post don't presume that any of this should apply to anyone else.

BailMeOut · 26-01-2020 01:27PM

unless you have very stong right wing views it is very unlikely that someone on your local ballot is not somewhat aligned with your political views. Study your local candidates closer as there will be someone you can vote for. Also you should not care if you like them of not as why does that matter if they are going to get the job done for you.

is_that_so · 26-01-2020 01:31PM

BailMeOut wrote: »

unless you have very stong right wing views it is very unlikely that someone on your local ballot is not somewhat aligned with your political views. Study your local candidates closer as there will be someone you can vote for. Also you should not care if you like them of not as why does that matter if they are going to get the job done for you.

There are lots of ways to look at this. One can also use criteria like likeability, whether they are local and how likely they are not to embarrass constituents.

LeBash · 26-01-2020 01:42PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Things haven’t changed much since I’ve shown an interest in politics (less so the last decade or so). I do think we should all vote but “no confidence” would be a fantastic Way to make a statement to politicians that may even as you say encourage different kind of politics or people. Not voting comes across as apathy, voting no confidence creates an opening for new blood to try to please.

Can you see the current crop of politicians or wannabes allowing that on the card. About half of them in the place treat politics as the family business. If they dont get in, they get moved to the Seanad (what has the potential to be a massively effective political think tank but its filled with people who werent good enough to make the cut in their area).

Btw, I have voted in every election with 2 exceptions due to being out of the country.

The populist bull crap being thrown around is a load of tripe. We have a massive national dept and all we are doing is paying the interest. So reducing USC, tax cuts, maintaining 1/3 of the tax income on social welfare, while sounds great, just is not a sustainable thing to do.

It's either a total lie or we are in for a kick in the rocks from the IMF again but that's how these lads and ladies get into power, so why should they change that. That's probably 1 reason the OP feels they way he/she does.

iCareNotOneJot · 26-01-2020 01:52PM

peckerhead wrote: »

To paraphrase John Stuart Mill, the only thing that is necessary for cúnts to stay in power is for enough eejits to decide that their vote will change nothing.

Use yours, or STFU.

To paraphrase Bertrand Russell, the fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 02:00PM

is_that_so wrote: »

So glad you got that off your chest. At the end of the day all you really have is an opinion and that's fine but following the tenor of your post don't presume that any of this should apply to anyone else.

Whereas in reality, unlike yourself, I don't dictate what other people should do and think.

mr_fegelien · 26-01-2020 02:03PM

"If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it" - Mark Twain

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 02:09PM

BailMeOut wrote: »

unless you have very stong right wing views it is very unlikely that someone on your local ballot is not somewhat aligned with your political views. Study your local candidates closer as there will be someone you can vote for. Also you should not care if you like them of not as why does that matter if they are going to get the job done for you.

Some people don't slavishly follow a left / right mentality and instead look at each policy on it's own merits regardless of it being so called left or right. I've studied all of the candidates and their manifesto's and I don't want to elect any of them or be responsible for aiding same. It's precisely because I take my vote extremely seriously that I won't be voting for any of the candidates on the current ballot. A proper democratic system would also allow for a "none of the above" option on the ballot, because as it stands on this ballot, I've no choice other than not vote or spoil my vote, and i don't want to submit a spoiled vote. I'm sure quite a few other people who don't vote in some elections feel the same, and not everyone who does not vote is someone who has no interest in voting.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 02:17PM

mr_fegelien wrote: »

"If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it" - Mark Twain

There's more truth in that jest than most people realise. Hence no "vote for none of the above" option.

Whelo79 · 26-01-2020 02:34PM

KevRossi wrote: »

As much as I dislike SF, this is a stunt by RTE.

This is exactly what it is and people need to start questioning why a national broadcaster who is supposed to be fair, balanced and impartial would be doing something like this.

It stinks, they are hoping it sways the opinion of some of those undecided and swing voters to not vote for SF. It's manipulation of the highest order and unfortunately thousands of voters will buy into it.

People need to start seeing through this and questioning the motives.

wmahcm · 26-01-2020 02:39PM

McMurphy wrote: »

The timing of her appearance is a bit bizarre all things considered, but depending on how she is viewed by the viewing public, and if she cocks up, it could actually be a massive boost for Sinn Fein too.

Rte couldn't wait until after an election though, no?

I don't like SF, but it's a pretty calculated bit of attempted voter manipulation by RTE / Turbidy.
As usual RTE either presume the Irish public are too stupid to cop on to it, or they are so assured of themselves they don't care if the public do.

road_high · 26-01-2020 02:47PM

Whelo79 wrote: »

This is exactly what it is and people need to start questioning why a national broadcaster who is supposed to be fair, balanced and impartial would be doing something like this.

It stinks, they are hoping it sways the opinion of some of those undecided and swing voters to not vote for SF. It's manipulation of the highest order and unfortunately thousands of voters will buy into it.

People need to start seeing through this and questioning the motives.

SF are completely paranoid. How do you even know Foster will be talking about them? They need to get a grip and realise not every conversation is about them- regardless of how they’d like to control dialogue and criticism. A scary prospect for freedom of expression if and when they get into power

pixelburp · 26-01-2020 02:50PM

mr_fegelien wrote: »

"If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it" - Mark Twain

Not sure a glib quote from a citizen of an infamously contrived and restrictive duopoly can say much about voting. Least of all in a country with a vastly more proportional system. I barely regard the US as a Democracy in the first place.

Thing about the "none of the above" option, or indeed the "no confidence" option. Then what? Say a majority votes no confidence in a dozen candidates. Then what happens?

Phoebas · 26-01-2020 02:58PM

Alrene Foster is much disliked south of the border.
Any exposure she gets is more likely than not to actually be a boost to Sinn Fein

charlie14 · 26-01-2020 02:59PM

Whelo79 wrote: »

This is exactly what it is and people need to start questioning why a national broadcaster who is supposed to be fair, balanced and impartial would be doing something like this.

It stinks, they are hoping it sways the opinion of some of those undecided and swing voters to not vote for SF. It's manipulation of the highest order and unfortunately thousands of voters will buy into it.

People need to start seeing through this and questioning the motives.

I would see it as the totally opposite in it being a help to SF when you consider how the DUP and Foster are viewed here.

FG are attempting to get votes on their Brexit strategy when that strategy was backed by all parties here. If anyone has a possibility of gaining votes on Brexit it could actually be SF when they are compared to the DUP in NI.

relax carry on · 26-01-2020 03:02PM

wmahcm wrote: »

There's more truth in that jest than most people realise. Hence no "vote for none of the above" option.

None of the above will sort what exactly? Since you aren't voting for any of the candidates available to you, you are pretty much disengaging from the process. If you genuinely feel that disconnected from the democratic process in the country then what would your replacement idea be? Which candidate anywhere in the country do you feel could represent your views whatever they are? If one doesn't exist for you, would you consider trying to run yourself and trying to get other citizens to back your views whatever they are?

BonnieSituation · 26-01-2020 03:08PM

wmahcm wrote: »

I don't like SF, but it's a pretty calculated bit of attempted voter manipulation by RTE / Turbidy.
As usual RTE either presume the Irish public are too stupid to cop on to it, or they are so assured of themselves they don't care if the public do.

The public can't, on one hand, be too smart to not see the obvious shenanigans, and on the other hand be also too stupid to be taken in by it all.

It's an obvious pro-FF shilling attempt. As it was ever thus by RTÉ and Tubridy.

iCareNotOneJot · 26-01-2020 03:12PM

In many ways its the people who DO VOTE who are accepting the status quo and dont want any change. If the system itself is broken, why keep supporting it by voting ?

iCareNotOneJot · 26-01-2020 03:14PM

Its interesting how Brexit has fallen off the issues radar. This time last year it would be a huge issue. People act like its all been sorted out

26-01-2020 03:16PM

iCareNotOneJot wrote: »

Its interesting how Brexit has fallen off the issues radar. This time last year it would be a huge issue. People act like its all been sorted out

I say health. Is something wrong with the poll settings. I have not permission to use

General Election and Government Formation Megathread (see post #1)

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