Mens Rights Thread

iptba · 20-01-2020 02:57PM

Just came across the Fianna Fáil Women’s Network. I doubt there is a similar networks for men. Indeed, I imagine there might be a furore if someone tried to set one up.

iptba · 20-01-2020 03:43PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

Is this a first in Ireland? " New domestic abuse refuge in Galway will allow mothers to bring their teenage sons with them"

https://www.thejournal.ie/domestic-abuse-refuge-galway-4969215-Jan2020/

while it is to be welcomed, that it is newsworthy serves to highlight the discriminatory nature of the vast majority of services to date.

There is still a lack of services for male victims of domestic violence. All services should provide self contained family units on a needs basis without any bias.

Is there any hope that gender quotas could be implemented or is that only for politicians, boards of management and job recruitment?

If one follows the donation link in the article, one gets a page headed "your donation will help some of the most vulnerable men, women and families in Galway". https://www.copegalway.ie/donate/

So it's not even a charity just for female victims yet the domestic violence services don't cope for victims who are men.

H3llR4iser · 21-01-2020 05:27PM

iptba wrote: »

Katie Byrne: 'Love Island short-shaming highlights women's double standards'

https://www.independent.ie/style/beauty/body/katie-byrne-love-island-short-shaming-highlights-womens-double-standards-38866267.html

Yeah...nothing new under the sun and it really flies in the face of all of the "body positivity" campaigns.

A few months ago I was about to leave the gym when this young fella approached me and asked me...if I knew about any exercises or medications that'd make him taller. He was maybe 16 or 17 years old, maximum and not even that short - probably 170, maybe 175 cm (that would be 5'7" - 5'9" for those stuck in1981 :P).

I'm not a sentimental dude but the sheer angst on his face as he asked was simply heartbreaking; He didn't say anything specifically other than all his friends were "taller than him", but as a guy I could absolutely, without any doubt sense it was all about girls.

Couldn't muster the courage to tell him "nope, it's all genetics, the rest is snake oil!" and advised that he might "still grow" and to talk to his doc and maybe a qualified trainer if he was worried

.

Sonic_exyouth · 22-01-2020 06:19PM

iptba wrote: »

Just came across the Fianna Fáil Women’s Network. I doubt there is a similar networks for men. Indeed, I imagine there might be a furore if someone tried to set one up.

The Free masons

iptba · 22-01-2020 06:31PM

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

Just came across the Fianna Fáil Women’s Network. I doubt there is a similar networks for men. Indeed, I imagine there might be a furore if someone tried to set one up.

The Free masons

I’m not sure people (particularly those in the public eye) are that open about their membership of the Free masons?

Anyway, by similar network, I meant within the political parties e.g. Fianna Fáil Men’s Network

Edited to add: Actually, that might be good example that a man would often feel the need to hide the membership of such a men-only group so in some ways it makes my point.

Sonic_exyouth · 23-01-2020 10:48AM

iptba wrote: »

I’m not sure people (particularly those in the public eye) are that open about their membership of the Free masons?

Anyway, by similar network, I meant within the political parties e.g. Fianna Fáil Men’s Network

Edited to add: Actually, that might be good example that a man would often feel the need to hide the membership of such a men-only group so in some ways it makes my point.

The masons are cloaked by design -

other fraternal organisations are not.

It depends what you want from the group

Apart from the Masons;
The Knights of Columbanus, the AOH or Orange Order up north if you want faith to save the world.
Portmarnock Golf Club if you want to have a game of golf.
Mens Shed movement, if you want to learn to craft.
Quite a few "male voice choirs" if you want to sing.

It depends on what you are looking for

iptba · 23-01-2020 11:55PM

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

The masons are cloaked by design -

other fraternal organisations are not.

It depends what you want from the group

Apart from the Masons;
The Knights of Columbanus, the AOH or Orange Order up north if you want faith to save the world.
Portmarnock Golf Club if you want to have a game of golf.
Mens Shed movement, if you want to learn to craft.
Quite a few "male voice choirs" if you want to sing.

It depends on what you are looking for

Portmarnock golf club is one golf club which I believe is quite expensive to join. It's not going to suit people unless one lives fairly nearby. So it's only an option for quite a small percentage of the male population.

Also, that kind of makes the point in making: there has been huge controversy with regard to the men-only full membership policy they have in contrast to women-only initiatives. The Equality Authority spent a lot of money on legal fees challenging them in the courts and other commentators complained about them.

---
I know somebody involved in the Knights of St. Columbanus and it seems like it's a religious organisation. He makes trips to the Holy Land to support Christians there and the like.

Sure enough, when I checked the website the description matched my impressions: https://www.knightsofstcolumbanus.ie/about/

We are an Order of Catholic laymen dedicated to the service of Christ in daily life, in the workplace, the marketplace, in City, Urban and Provincial areas.

We welcome into our ranks Catholic men, in full communion with the Church, who would wish to bring to the service of Christ their talents and skills towards the promotion of Christian values and principles in Society, for the greater Honour and Glory of God the Father.

To all who browse this site we wish the peace and love of Jesus Christ.
Membership of the Order is open to Catholic males twenty one years and older. Prospective new members are nominated by an existing member to join a particular Primary Council. They must be practising Catholics as defined by the Church. There is provision for Junior membership between the ages of eighteen and twenty one years.

We have four main objectives. These are:

To promote by personal and group action the extension of a practical Christianity in all phases of life.
To maintain a fraternal society of Catholic Lay leadership.
To honour the Faith.
To prepare its members for the Apostolate.

The motto of the Order is: “To restore all things in Christ.” Knights, as with all Catholics, are primarily concerned with their own spiritual formation and salvation. They strive to express this in the first instance in their family circle. This conviction is exemplified in their place of work and public life. They are always mindful that a Christian Social Order in a changing world is not and cannot be static, it must be a dynamic balance of forces requiring constant evaluation corrections and adjustment The aim of the Knights is to maintain our country Christian in outlook, thought and action. To achieve this end we are guided by two principles of action. The first is the law of Charity. The second is the law of Justice.

---
Yes, there are men's sheds that have set up in recent years just like there are women's groups like the Irish Countrywoman's Association.

However, none of these seems particularly comparable to Fianna Fáil Women’s Network. A network within a particular organisation or field is often much more useful than a network which involves a large mix of people from a range of backgrounds.

So for example, in politics, one might look for support to become a candidate in elections; one might look for people to canvass for you; one might like people to donate to your campaigns; having an existing network could be useful if one wanted to stand as a leader or deputy leader candidate for example or offer support in exchange for favours/influence; such networks make it easier to try to bring about gender-specific campaigns or legislation.

Such networks exist for women but do not appear to exist for men within Irish political parties.

iptba · 24-01-2020 06:56PM

(Like many of my posts, this is more like a post on men's issues, then men's rights)

The findings in the first paragraph were highlighted the daily LinkedIn summary post I get shown:

In Sweden, women who were elected mayor or parliamentarian were more likely to get divorced than men who won the same elections. The same was true in the corporate world, where women promoted to chief executive were twice as likely to divorce within five years of their promotion as men. (Several U.S. studies have shown that American women downplay their career ambitions on dates and that marriages where the wife’s earnings exceed her husband’s are more likely to end in divorce.)

When women establish a professional career of their own, particularly one that eclipses that of their husband, their success seems to threaten the implicit contract of the marriage and cause acrimony. Divorce was especially likely when the recently promoted wife was at least four years younger than the husband and when she had taken the great majority of parental leave time. In select interviews, the researchers heard from some men that their newly successful wives “didn’t care about him or the household anymore,” as they put it in an email to me. “The man did not take pride in her promotion but rather thought that she didn’t care about him as much as she used to.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/whos-afraid-of-ambitious-women/604855/

It's probably politically incorrect to point out that if women are looking for their partners/spouses to earn as much if not more than them, this is unlikely to be happening if she becomes CEO, for example.

iptba · 25-01-2020 07:18PM

Men’s groups have felt excluded from the “gender equality” debate, and are “delighted” to have been invited to the Citizens’ Assembly on the issue, according to its chairwoman.

Dr Catherine Day, former secretary general of the European Commission, said men want to be part of the discussion on equality between the sexes, including the pay-gap, care responsibilities, the under-representation of women in politics and poverty among lone-parent families.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/men-delighted-to-be-invited-to-citizens-assembly-on-gender-equality-1.4150491

I wonder which men's groups these are? Are they feminist ones?

The remit for the assembly looks rather narrow:

The Citizens’ Assembly on gender Equality will meet over six weekends between now and July. It comes on foot of an Oireachtas resolution and Cabinet decision last June, and will consist of 99 citizens, broadly representative of the electorate, plus the chair. They are tasked with considering how to best “advance gender equality”.
Barriers

The resolution calls on the assembly to bring proposals that will “challenge the remaining barriers and social norms and attitudes that facilitate gender discriminations towards girls and boys, women and men”, “dismantle economic and salary norms that result in gender inequalities...reassess the economic value placed on work traditionally held by women”, and, “ensure women’s full and effective participation and equal opportunities for leadership”.

FishOnABike · 26-01-2020 12:16PM

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/men-delighted-to-be-invited-to-citizens-assembly-on-gender-equality-1.4150491

I wonder which men's groups these are? Are they feminist ones?

The remit for the assembly looks rather narrow:

I wonder if there is a balanced gender quota for this assembly to ensure its discussions and report not disproportionately influenced by any one gennder?

26-01-2020 01:11PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

I wonder if there is a balanced gender quota for this assembly to ensure its discussions and report not disproportionately influenced by any one gennder?

The only concern is for male bias. Women can't be biased against males, the same way that Black people can't be racist.

These equality organisations all promote female rights/needs and throw a minor bone towards male rights (as long as it doesn't compromise their own female agenda). Having some males in an assembly doesn't guarantee any degree of equality due to the very real perspective of "ism"/"ist" which tends to encourage males to keep silent. Until those attitudes are addressed, I hold extremely little faith in such organisations.

iptba · 27-01-2020 08:02AM

More female pilots are needed, says Embraer boss

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/more-female-pilots-are-needed-says-embraer-boss-38897454.html

Mr Slattery, a native of Ennis, Co Clare, said that Embraer is also trying to hire more female engineers.

"We want more and more engineers to be female across the organisation," said the aviation boss.

Such attitudes could lead to discrimination against men.

iptba · 27-01-2020 08:08AM

Bill Linnane: When mums & teen daughters are at war
'Fun dad' to the rescue, writes Bill Linnane

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/bill-linnane-when-mums-and-teen-daughters-are-at-war-38891872.html

Highlights different styles of parenting that may possibly be more common in fathers and mothers (and maybe it is good for children to have both in their lives)

WarpAsylum · 28-01-2020 03:46PM

iptba wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/bill-linnane-when-mums-and-teen-daughters-are-at-war-38891872.html

Highlights different styles of parenting that may possibly be more common in fathers and mothers (and maybe it is good for children to have both in their lives)

As a father of an almost 13 year old girl, I can relate to this.

Myself and her mother haven't been together since she was 8 months old and I'm definitely seen as the "fun" one.

I wouldn't appreciate my parenting style being dismissed as "fun dad" though. I have just always respected my daughter's autonomy and have encouraged her to be a self sufficient as she can be, as soon as she can be.

I also pick my battles, always hear her out, and I try to never sweat the little things. I value our relationship and her trust above all else. I want her to know I'm there for her and would hope to be a positive template for men in her future.

But that's just me. There's no rulebook.

iptba · 29-01-2020 01:47AM

https://twitter.com/clemshevlin40/status/1222310987455508482
Random tweet, so I'm not sure how many people have similar views.

I can understand people being protective of women in terms of physical arguing.
But if women want to be treated as equals, it seems it should be fair if men can treat them in debates the same way that they would treat men.

Marcos · 29-01-2020 02:02PM

You can see exactly how much nasty abuse was thrown at Joan Burton here and make your own mind up. Was it really nasty abuse or just bringing up the ramifications of her actions in government? Does that count as bullying?

TBF like one of the commenters on the article said

If you’re in a room with a Healy-Rae and you’re the unlikeable one, it’s time to reconsider your life choices.

iptba · 29-01-2020 04:35PM

Martial arts instructor jailed for one-punch killing of passerby in Dublin
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/martial-arts-instructor-jailed-for-one-punch-killing-of-passerby-in-dublin-978433.html

A professional martial arts instructor who killed an innocent passerby with a single punch in a late night street assault has been jailed for five and a half years.

Jonathan Dargan (49) was found guilty of killing Patrick Mullally (56) by knocking him to the ground with a punch after the victim and another man had stopped to intervene in a drunken row with his girlfriend.

There are various ways to look at this case. But one is to highlight that one man ended up dying because he wanted to protect a woman.

Calhoun · 29-01-2020 04:44PM

iptba wrote: »

https://twitter.com/clemshevlin40/status/1222310987455508482
Random tweet, so I'm not sure how many people have similar views.

I can understand people being protective of women in terms of physical arguing.
But if women want to be treated as equals, it seems it should be fair if men can treat them in debates the same way that they would treat men.

The tweet/comments will not damage Healy-Rae in the least and is great to see the online white knights do great work to distance the online mount pieces from everyday folk.

Marcos wrote: »

You can see exactly how much nasty abuse was thrown at Joan Burton here and make your own mind up. Was it really nasty abuse or just bringing up the ramifications of her actions in government? Does that count as bullying?

TBF like one of the commenters on the article said

Playing the poor mouth and victim in politics is equally disgusting as these people that are so called bullies. Could they have handled themselves better? yes but there are labor supporters who feel that what went on when they got into government was a big betrayal and they are angry.

The anger doesn't stem from her being a woman but the policies and decisions made when they are in power.

Its not just her, look at the stick (well deserved) that Alan Kelly gets.

iptba · 29-01-2020 06:55PM

Game on: How to talk about sport without driving your colleagues crazy
Bosses have been advised to rein in office sports banter as it excludes women. With the Six Nations looming, Darragh McManus has some creative ideas

https://www.independent.ie/life/game-on-how-to-talk-about-sport-without-driving-your-colleagues-crazy-38905757.html

That said, Ms Francke has a point, in that unending banter about sport does exclude people who, well, aren't interested in sport. The same way as incessant discussion of, say, Love Island excludes everyone who hates Love Island, ie normal adults.

I think it would be a pity if anodyne discussions on what people were watching on TV (including sports) started to become policed in some way.

The article does highlight how people already have to be careful how they talk and interact:

- Praise the other person for something they recently did. Or give them a compliment - but be scrupulously neutral, with not the teensiest hint of a sliver of an intimation of anything untoward being suggested. I usually go for, "Your car has a nice colour. But that's just my opinion."

Calhoun · 29-01-2020 07:23PM

Most be horrible having to right for the life section of the independent, not really breaking any awards.

The article itself is clickbait ****e and linking it up is probably helping them get the views they want. As I don't know what "bosses" have been advised to reign it in because controlling what people think about and have a passion for is a good way to have industrial relations problems.

I say this as someone who dislikes sports and wont be engaging in the chat myself. If business leaders did take something like this seriously it would kick off a tit for tat attack on interests in the office. I always feel out of place when women talk about soaps but guess what who cares.

iptba · 01-02-2020 03:06AM

Now even some women are reluctant to hire women following the #MeToo
movement

https://hbr.org/2019/09/the-metoo-backlash

7-minute video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTlZMJ2Hkg

tdf7187 · 01-02-2020 03:11AM

Major case of blue balls syndrome with some of the lads here.

Calhoun · 01-02-2020 03:45AM

tdf7187 wrote: »

Major case of blue balls syndrome with some of the lads here.

How do you mean?

Calhoun · 01-02-2020 03:48AM

iptba wrote: »

Now even some women are reluctant to hire women following the #MeToo
movement

https://hbr.org/2019/09/the-metoo-backlash

7-minute video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVTlZMJ2Hkg

Who would have thought trial by mob, that was actively abused would have downsides to it.

Pawwed Rig · 01-02-2020 08:41AM

Marcos wrote: »

You can see exactly how much nasty abuse was thrown at Joan Burton here and make your own mind up. Was it really nasty abuse or just bringing up the ramifications of her actions in government? Does that count as bullying?

Not enough is made of this tbh. JB's policies on pensions disproportionately affected women and is one of the reasons labour's vote has been obliterated. HR is bang on in what he says.

And tbh I do not even think JB did it on purpose. It looked like she just didn't study the outcomes before implementing the changes.

creditcarder · 01-02-2020 11:09PM

tdf7187 wrote: »

Major case of blue balls syndrome with some of the lads here.

Nah, when you're getting some you can think of other things and not be slavishly waiting for approval :P

iptba · 02-02-2020 03:23PM

iptba · 07-02-2020 07:14PM

Phillip Schofield coming out as gay after years of marriage very common, says Love Equality NI

Ciaran Moynagh, from Love Equality NI, said Schofield's situation is very common.

Mr Moynagh said: "People are having more of an awareness of acceptance of LGBT in society and therefore they feel greater confidence to come out and they know it's never too late.

"I think maybe back in the 70s and 80s, when it was less socially accepted, people felt obliged to conform with society and enter into marriages and now they are saying that it is no longer necessary and they know marriage is no longer for life."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/phillip-schofield-i-have-been-coming-to-terms-with-the-fact-that-i-am-gay-980335.html

Sad for anyone/any men who were affected by attitudes in the past

Calhoun · 07-02-2020 08:34PM

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/phillip-schofield-i-have-been-coming-to-terms-with-the-fact-that-i-am-gay-980335.html

Sad for anyone/any men who were affected by attitudes in the past

I always thought he was gay, I was shocked that he has a wife and kids.

Thank God we live in a society now where he can finally be himself. Must have been a terrible burden all those years.

Pawwed Rig · 07-02-2020 11:59PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Thank God we live in a society now where he can finally be himself. Must have been a terrible burden all those years.

Bigger burden on his poor wife who has effectively been lied to for her whole adult life

Mens Rights Thread

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