Brexit Transition Period - What changes after Jan 2020 [No debate]

22-01-2020 4:38am #1

In this thread,
- post straight facts about changes that will affect the UK / the EU.
- ask questions about potential changes.
- correct errors or give additional information.

In this thread,
- don't debate / discuss the pros and cons of these changes.
- don't derail.
- don't argue.
- avoid the unknowns of post 2020.

I'll start with a question. Can Irish and British citizens still avail of each other's embassies' consular services in an emergency? How about say the French and British?

Feel free to post any changes you know of.

Dytalus · 23-01-2020 5:20pm

Ads by Google wrote: »

I'll start with a question. Can Irish and British citizens still avail of each other's embassies' consular services in an emergency? How about say the French and British?

All the documents and legislation I can find mentions British citizens losing consular services in EU embassies under no deal Brexit. The continued reference to "if there is a no-deal Brexit" leads me to believe that for the duration of the transition period, UK citizens will still have access to consular protections with the WA signed. I can't find anything that says otherwise.

I can't find anything regarding specifically Irish/British consular cooperation - I don't know if it's independent of, or tied to, the EU's legislation.

Xertz · 23-01-2020 8:01pm

I may well be wrong, but I'm not aware of their having been any British - Irish agreements on consular assistance before the EU Consular Protection Directive, so I would assume it would revert to whatever that situation was.

Historically, I would have assumed that Ireland was most definitely ensuring that it struck out on its own in terms of international relations and did not become seen as some kind of British protectorate, so I would be very surprised if we were ever using British embassies, beyond maybe friendly ad hoc arrangements during emergencies e.g. repatriation of tourists or something like that.

From the UK's point of view, they've fairly extensive embassy coverage themselves, so I don't think it'd be a big issue. For a smaller country like Ireland, the EU network's very handy for assistance coverage in far flung places we don't have representation.

Frank Bullitt · 23-01-2020 8:57pm

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/01/23/brexit-2020-everything-you-need-to-know-about-johnson-s-trad

Brexit 2020: Everything you need to know about Boris Johnson's trade deal nightmare

Good article that touches on this a bit.

Peregrinus · 24-01-2020 5:51am

The main change is of course that the UK ceases to participate in the EU institutions - no Commissioner, no MEPs, no seat at the Council of Ministers. This isn't something that's going to affect people on the ground, though.

Trade and commerce between the UK and the EU will be unaffected during transition, but this isn't necessarily the case for trade/commerce between the UK and third countries. It's up to each third country whether to treat goods, etc from the UK as if they came from the EU, and so allow the UK to benefit from trade deals between the EU and third countries; the EU will request that they do, but they have no obligation to. The UK has said that it will continue, during transition, to give third countries the rights that they enjoy under their trade agreements with the EU.

Peregrinus · 24-01-2020 5:56am

Dytalus wrote: »

All the documents and legislation I can find mentions British citizens losing consular services in EU embassies under no deal Brexit. The continued reference to "if there is a no-deal Brexit" leads me to believe that for the duration of the transition period, UK citizens will still have access to consular protections with the WA signed. I can't find anything that says otherwise.

SFAIK the position is:

- During transition, EU member state embassies and consulates will continue to offer services to British citizen as though they were still EU citizens.

- But the third countries which host them need not accept the legitimacy of this since the individuals concerned are not, in fact, EU citizens.

So if Belgium, say, seeks to provide consular assistance to a British citizen arrested in Peru, say, the Peruvian authorities can tell the Belgian consul to go away, because this person is not a Belgian or EU citizen, and has no right of access to the Belgian consul.

In practice this isn't a big deal. There are not many places where the UK has no diplomatic or consular presence, but other Member States do.

murphaph · 24-01-2020 9:18am

What is the situation with children's allowance or whatever it's called in the UK? Eligibility here can be EU dependent. For example a child living in Poland with the mother while the father works in the UK. Currently the UK is still obliged to pay children's allowance for that child. Is this sort of thing also frozen during the transition period?

Peregrinus · 24-01-2020 10:29am

murphaph wrote: »

What is the situation with children's allowance or whatever it's called in the UK? Eligibility here can be EU dependent. For example a child living in Poland with the mother while the father works in the UK. Currently the UK is still obliged to pay children's allowance for that child. Is this sort of thing also frozen during the transition period?

Benefit entitlements (both in the UK and in other EU member states) won't change during the transition period.

(It's only in exceptional cases that a parent resident in the UK can claim child benefit in respect of a child resident outside the UK. But in cases where they can currently do so, they will still be able to do so during transition. And indeed afterwards, unless and until the UK changes its rules.)

Bannasidhe · 29-01-2020 12:39pm

What will happen with using things like Amazon.co.uk?
Could Irish customers have import duties etc imposed ?
I know Amazon.de are apparently now providing some English language pages but I had a look and it's not great (yet).

First world problem - I want to keep my Amazon (UK) Prime exactly as it is

- is that a forlorn hope?

Sam Russell · 29-01-2020 2:15pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What will happen with using things like Amazon.co.uk?
Could Irish customers have import duties etc imposed ?
I know Amazon.de are apparently now providing some English language pages but I had a look and it's not great (yet).

First world problem - I want to keep my Amazon (UK) Prime exactly as it is - is that a forlorn hope?

Rumour is that Amazon are setting up an Irish depot.

Peregrinus · 30-01-2020 2:54am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What will happen with using things like Amazon.co.uk?
Could Irish customers have import duties etc imposed ? . . .

Not during the transition period.

But afterwards, depends on the terms of whatever trade deal is agreed between the UK and the EU.

In the long run, it will not make sense to shop from amazon.co.uk. If nothing else, you've got one, if not two, sets of foreign exchange costs baked into your transactions that you can avoid if the product you're buying has not actually been produced in the UK.

Xertz · 03-02-2020 2:19am

Amazon is progressively expanding its Irish infrastructure and delivery channels anyway. I'd say a distribution centre here is fairly inevitable with or without Brexit, but it's definitely likely to happen rather sooner now due to regulatory uncertainty.

Ireland's a small, but not insignificant market. It has huge spending power per capita and takes well to online shopping.

I think we're somewhat underestimating the attractiveness of this market to retailers. It's small but quite comparable to the likes of Denmark or Sweden or SE England in terms of how it spends. Sometimes I think the analysis and self-image here is a bit lost in the 1980s when we were a bit of a basket case economically. I don't really see a scenario where retailers just abandon a lucrative market, particularly when it's part of the EU and relatively easy to access using logistics chains that just bypass the UK.

dam099 · 03-02-2020 2:36am

Xertz wrote: »

I think we're somewhat underestimating the attractiveness of this market to retailers. It's small but quite comparable to the likes of Denmark or Sweden....

I get your overall point but neither of those have their own Amazon site either.

Xertz · 03-02-2020 3:09am

dam099 wrote: »

I get your overall point but neither of those have their own Amazon site either.

Considering they've 19 fulfilment centres in England, 2 in Scotland and 1 in Wales, it'd be rather logical to have one in Ireland given the volume of business. They're unofficially serving a few neighbouring countries e.g. Benelux out of Germany and France, Austria out of Germany etc.

All I'm saying is that it's inevitable anyway and they won't ignore the business here. There's HUGE growth potential as Ireland lagged UK uptake due to logistical issues - i.e. refusal to deliver here / high costs and also the relatively late adoption of internationally usable debit cards. Laser Card really held up e-commerce here although we've gone from one extreme to the other - weird local card scheme to 100% international one with huge market penetration in the space of a few years.

Anyway, to get back on topic - I think we'll likely see a few of those companies adapt to Brexit. There are clothing retailers like ASOS with significant sales here too.

Where there's money, there'll be people willing to sell stuff and I can't see companies just abandoning a lucrative market they're already established in due to a logistics and regulatory hiccup.

Amazon.de also works reasonably well in English btw.

Peregrinus · 03-02-2020 3:18am

dam099 wrote: »

I get your overall point but neither of those have their own Amazon site either.

There doesn't need to be an amazon.ie; just an amazon site that (a) offers an English interface, and (b) serves customers in euroland.

Amazon.eu will take you to a website that at present is clearly a placeholder, but it already features an outline map of the EU-27, omitting the UK. Just sayin'.

Brexit Transition Period - What changes after Jan 2020 [No debate]

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