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Dublin Coach Experience Discussion Thread

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    #1292
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Drifter50 wrote: »
    DOE inspections are quite regulated and approach a vehicle from the safety perspective,not from whether its gleaming shiny or new. So long as the safety boxes are ticked, the age or clean condition does`nt count. Not really relevant to the inspector / mechanic

    So the Aircoach`s get a daily wash, might be disguising an underlying issue

    I'm not talking about washing or scratches....

    They don't turn the setras off or other ones as they most likely won't start again, spewing smoke and toxic fumes everywhere especially when others are around and other buses etc where the fumes are drawn in.... 1st hand experience here....
    Drivers are quite poor and I doubt they get any training as they only hire those with a licence and CPC.

    The buses I see have parts missing, bits sticking out, duct tape holding panels shut, rear engine covers either ready to fall or or open, lights on many not working, interior in bits seen from photos as haven't ever been on one, comments from passengers of noises and bangs while driving along....

    To be honest their safety systems in place and maintenance are either obsolete or poor at best....

    The owners model is get routes and eventually sell up as he has done so in the past with aircoach.

    The coaches he has purchased are end of life as one only has to see the industrial estate where their base is....

    Obviously running at cheapest possible model which in my view brings standards down unless he has competition as we are well aware with the Belfast route as you won't see anything older then 2016 on it and no way would they put a 2004 setra clapped out or the UK imported end of life coaches.

    I'd actually love to see the actual genuine mileage on these.


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    #1293
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    devnull wrote: »
    Who are Dublin Coach vehicles maintained by? Most of the work on aircoach vehicles is done by Irish commercials like most Volvo customers in Ireland. They only do minor stuff themselves.

    That's because aircoach has a contract with them.

    Most are Merc that DC are getting so I'd say their supplier for them and the older stuff id say is in house....


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    #1294
    wetoutside19
    Closed Accounts Posts: 56 ✭✭wetoutside19


    devnull wrote: »
    The route is a cross border route. If your having that argument then people in Belfast could have same argument about not using Dublin coach.

    And Im sure people of belfast who want to support their local economy / give their fellow countrymen jobs will do so and I take my hat off to them.
    devnull wrote: »
    Having depot and drivers based on both sides of the border is very sensible in terms of service recovery and dealing with disruption

    I work at the airport, I have never seen a ROI registered aircoach operating this route over the last few years, unless you know otherwise then your argument is null and void as this route is 100% serviced from their UK company even during times of disruption. And Volvo truck and bus garages are don't restrict the vehicles they operate on to only in country registrations meaning a ROI registration can rock into Volvo NI and vice versa.

    devnull wrote: »
    If country of some of vehicles is more important to you than other factors then fair enough. Personally the Road Safety Authority's judgement and other factors would worry me more than that.

    Again your argument for this route is null and void, as you are so fond of stating DC put their new coaches on this route. I clearly stated I think some of their older fleet should not be on the road.
    devnull wrote: »
    and you'll find all the revenue if you book a ticket with them is going to the ROI arm.

    Regarding revenue going to ROI arm, that is due to VAT rules, its not at the discretion of the bus operator. I am sure the UK company operating the coaches and employing the drivers will be paid a service charge. I'm also talking about driver pay, driver social insurance, employment etc etc.



    Look all I am doing is countering your argument that DC are playing unfair which you seem fond of bringing up without reference to Aircoach also taking advantage of the route being cross border to have an advantage with costs. Gobus / Kavanagh etc wont touch this route because of the advantages that aircoach can get from operating UK based coaches and drivers on this route. Please at least recognize this part of my argument.


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    #1295
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    wetoutside19 wrote: »
    And Im sure people of belfast who want to support their local economy / give their fellow countrymen jobs will do so and I take my hat off to them.

    Belfast is part of the UK, no matter how much me or you think it should be part of Ireland, it doesn't change the fact that Belfast right now is part of the UK and Aircoach have provided jobs for staff there, just like they do in Ireland.
    I work at the airport, I have never seen a ROI registered aircoach operating this route over the last few years, unless you know otherwise then your argument is null and void as this route is 100% serviced from their UK company even during times of disruption.

    I was on one in December and a couple of other times last year and have seen ROI vehicles on the service a good number of times. So therefore my argument is not null and void but yours is misleading, incorrect and doesn't stand up to scrutiny

    Just a few examples:
    https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/48793192131/
    https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/48947755942/
    https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/33333072908/
    https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/33665503048/
    https://flickr.com/photos/sheffield-transport-photography/31838860507/
    And Volvo truck and bus garages are don't restrict the vehicles they operate on to only in country registrations meaning a ROI registration can rock into Volvo NI and vice versa.

    Nobody said they do, but if you have a breakdown or a delay, it's far better to have depot facilities with coaches and drivers either side of the border rather than having to send a coach all the way to Belfast from Dublin, when a vehicle breaks down in Belfast. It results in better outcomes for customers.
    Again your argument for this route is null and void, as you are so fond of stating DC put their new coaches on this route. I clearly stated I think some of their older fleet should not be on the road.

    I hardly think that the fact that a well known bus operator in this country has been up before the RSA and found guilty of tacograph breaches as well as drivers not taking their rest periods is something that can be just brushed asid e and considered to be null and void and instead some anti British feeling is more important. If it came to putting my loved ones on a British coach or an operator who has been found guilty of road safety offences, I wouldn't chose the later.
    Regarding revenue going to ROI arm, that is due to VAT rules, its not at the discretion of the bus operator. I am sure the UK company operating the coaches and employing the drivers will be paid a service charge. I'm also talking about driver pay, driver social insurance, employment etc etc.

    Do you think that it is anything much different to what is happening on other cross boarder services, such as the servie operated by Ulsterbus and Bus Eirann jointly, or the enterprise service operated jointly by Northern Ireland Railways and Irish Rail? This is the very nature of companies operating cross border, some will have some staff in one company in one country and some in another for all sorts of reasons. I've never really had a big problem with it but I've never been one to be hugely anti British either, even if I am pro-Irish.
    Look all I am doing is countering your argument that DC are playing unfair which you seem fond of bringing up without reference to Aircoach also taking advantage of the route being cross border to have an advantage with costs. Gobus / Kavanagh etc wont touch this route because of the advantages that aircoach can get from operating UK based coaches and drivers on this route. Please at least recognize this part of my argument.

    Of course nobody else will touch the route because there is already a massive supply on that route, two coaches an hour from BE/UB, a train service, a coach every hour from Dublin Coach and Aircoach, there simply is not the demand for another service and any newcomer would quickly see themselves get eaten alive by the current operators on that route.

    Dublin Coach themselves based much of their initial strategy on heavily below cost pricing, free or cheap tickets and hoping to gain customers that walked up to Glengall Street who were looking to travel with Aircoach. That kind of strategy is not allowed under rules within the ROI because the NTA believe that head to head running from the same stops at virtually the same time is not deisrable, which I would happen to agree with.

    The ironic thing is that the only reason either of them are stopping at Glengall street is because Aircoach were believed to have taken Translink to court to get access to that location, which by all means was said to be a long, drawn out battle that went on for a long time.


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    #1296
    belfast stephen
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭belfast stephen


    wetoutside19 wrote: »
    While I agree that some if their fleet should simply not be on the road I say fair play to Dublin coach on this one. Aircoach are more than happy to play in the unregulated field by using UK registered buses and UK bus drivers on the Dublin Belfast route so it’s a bit rich tacking Dublin coach on their behaviour.

    I rather my spending money benefits the Irish state and Irish bus drivers rather than London’s coffers.

    The northern ireland Reg coaches on Belfast route are based in belfast and have northen ireland legal Adress and is staffed by drivers from belfast nothing wrong with aircoach doing that

    Also Dublin based air coaches have and do appear on the belfast route covering for break downs


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    #1297
    belfast stephen
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭belfast stephen


    devnull wrote: »
    Belfast is part of the UK, no matter how much me or you think it should be part of Ireland, it doesn't change the fact that Belfast right now is part of the UK and Aircoach have provided jobs for staff there, just like they do in Ireland.



    I was on one in December and a couple of other times last year and have seen ROI vehicles on the service a good number of times. So therefore my argument is not null and void but yours is misleading, incorrect and doesn't stand up to scrutiny

    Just a few examples:
    https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/48793192131/
    https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/48947755942/
    https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/33333072908/
    https://flickr.com/photos/75694280@N02/33665503048/
    https://flickr.com/photos/sheffield-transport-photography/31838860507/



    Nobody said they do, but if you have a breakdown or a delay, it's far better to have depot facilities with coaches and drivers either side of the border rather than having to send a coach all the way to Belfast from Dublin, when a vehicle breaks down in Belfast. It results in better outcomes for customers.



    I hardly think that the fact that a well known bus operator in this country has been up before the RSA and found guilty of tacograph breaches as well as drivers not taking their rest periods is something that can be just brushed asid e and considered to be null and void and instead some anti British feeling is more important. If it came to putting my loved ones on a British coach or an operator who has been found guilty of road safety offences, I wouldn't chose the later.



    Do you think that it is anything much different to what is happening on other cross boarder services, such as the servie operated by Ulsterbus and Bus Eirann jointly, or the enterprise service operated jointly by Northern Ireland Railways and Irish Rail? This is the very nature of companies operating cross border, some will have some staff in one company in one country and some in another for all sorts of reasons. I've never really had a big problem with it but I've never been one to be hugely anti British either, even if I am pro-Irish.



    Of course nobody else will touch the route because there is already a massive supply on that route, two coaches an hour from BE/UB, a train service, a coach every hour from Dublin Coach and Aircoach, there simply is not the demand for another service and any newcomer would quickly see themselves get eaten alive by the current operators on that route.

    Dublin Coach themselves based much of their initial strategy on heavily below cost pricing, free tickets and hoping to gain customers that walked up to Glengall Street who were looking to travel with Aircoach. That kind of strategy is not allowed under rules within the ROI because the NTA believe that head to head running from the same stops at virtually the same time is not deisrable, which I would happen to agree with.

    The ironic thing is that the only reason either of them are stopping at Glengall street is because Aircoach were believed to have taken Translink to court to get access to that location, which by all means was said to be a long, drawn out battle that went on for a long time.

    Aircoach don't own the stop in Glengall street so dublin coach can use it


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    #1298
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    belfast stephen wrote: »
    Aircoach don't own the stop in Glengall street so dublin coach can use it

    That's extreme oversimplification.

    Aircoach tried for years to stop in the Europa but Translink and the Department of infrastructure were not having any of it and there were lots of speeches about how they were not stopping Aircoach from stopping there, followed by words like but, however and various reasons why it hasn't happened yet.

    As you may be aware, Aircoach had enough and went to the Office of Fair Trading on the basis that the powers that be might be breaking EU competition law, which was highlighted in the press. Some time after this and just before Aircoach started their non stop service, it was quite widely reported in the trade that Aircoach had won a case which meant they had to be given access.

    At this point Translink stopped using Glengall Street altogether for it's own services and the powers that be allowed Aircoach to stop there, as technically it is considered part of the Europa. Since Aircoach had won this case, they were hardly likely to be able to stop Dublin Coach from stopping there also, as Dublin Coach would just point to the Aircoach case as prescident.

    So it's true that Aircoach don't own the stop, but what they did meant that it became possible for privates to stop there which it probably never would have been possible since you can't imagine that the powers that be there would ever just welcome anyone in with open arms of their own choice, if they were willing to do so, there'd be no reason for Aircoach to take action in the first place.


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    #1299
    Drifter50
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭Drifter50


    devnull wrote: »
    Who are Dublin Coach vehicles maintained by? Most of the work on aircoach vehicles is done by Irish commercials like most Volvo customers in Ireland. Aircoach only do minor stuff themselves.

    Fairly clear that its their own staff. If you take a look around their depots you`ll see gearboxes, axles, various carcases of coaches etc etc


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    #1300
    d51984
    Registered Users Posts: 927 ✭✭✭d51984


    New double deck plaxton elite coaches on way for Belfast run. This will cascade the Belfast coaches down and hopefully withdraw all the setras. They need a few more new units for the Portlaoise route though. Would single deck coaches work on this route?

    Its a disgrace Joe!



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    #1301
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    d51984 wrote: »
    New double deck plaxton elite coaches on way for Belfast run. This will cascade the Belfast coaches down and hopefully withdraw all the setras. They need a few more new units for the Portlaoise route though. Would single deck coaches work on this route?

    The allocations for the new vehicles were never going to be any other way really though, were they?


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    #1302
    d51984
    Registered Users Posts: 927 ✭✭✭d51984


    Nope. Belfast is like the 46A of Dublin bus.

    Its a disgrace Joe!



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    #1303
    belfast stephen
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭belfast stephen


    d51984 wrote: »
    New double deck plaxton elite coaches on way for Belfast run. This will cascade the Belfast coaches down and hopefully withdraw all the setras. They need a few more new units for the Portlaoise route though. Would single deck coaches work on this route?


    I heard that it was scania double Deckers Coming for belfast route


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    #1304
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    d51984 wrote: »
    Nope. Belfast is like the 46A of Dublin bus.

    If the competition dropped off the route, that would probably change though.

    Have to feel sorry for the long suffering passengers on their other routes who have to deal with all of the vehicles that are heavily getting on in years whilst Belfast gets new ones every year to fight a bus war with Aircoach on the route, although Aircoach Panthers are hardly luxury, it has to be said.


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    #1305
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    devnull wrote: »
    If the competition dropped off the route, that would probably change though.

    Have to feel sorry for the long suffering passengers on their other routes who have to deal with all of the vehicles that are heavily getting on in years whilst Belfast gets new ones every year to fight a bus war with Aircoach on the route.

    And they are on the best road in the country..


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    #1306
    d51984
    Registered Users Posts: 927 ✭✭✭d51984


    Deffo Plaxton elites, theres a photo on Flickr of one complete. Ill try find it again.

    Its a disgrace Joe!



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    #1307
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    d51984 wrote: »
    Deffo Plaxton elites, theres a photo on Flickr of one complete. Ill try find it again.

    They already have a 162 reg Plaxton Elite.


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    #1308
    d51984
    Registered Users Posts: 927 ✭✭✭d51984


    Yea they bought that 2nd hand.

    Its a disgrace Joe!



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    #1309
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Wonder are they going for plaxton as that's what aircoach are using....


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    #1310
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,607 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Wonder are they going for plaxton as that's what aircoach are using....

    My Plaxton is bigger than yours, etc!


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    #1311
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    devnull wrote: »
    My Plaxton is bigger than yours, etc!

    Oh it's like that is it:-)


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    #1312
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    See aircoach is 20 years in existence.
    Obviously not always under First but started up by DC owner.


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    #1313
    ExoPolitic
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭ExoPolitic


    Curious, where does DC have outstations? I know there's one in Waterford on the Tramore Road, I drive past it every day, usually one or two coaches parked up in the yard. One for breakdown coverage and one for the late night terminator and early morning start from Waterford.


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    #1314
    belfast stephen
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭belfast stephen


    d51984 wrote: »
    Deffo Plaxton elites, theres a photo on Flickr of one complete. Ill try find it again.

    that was 2nd hand coach bought from the UK was new in 2016 and is a lovely coach to travel on


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    #1315
    p_haugh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    ExoPolitic wrote: »
    Curious, where does DC have outstations? I know there's one in Waterford on the Tramore Road, I drive past it every day, usually one or two coaches parked up in the yard. One for breakdown coverage and one for the late night terminator and early morning start from Waterford.
    Well I think they use part of the quick park they run in Dublin airport to park up coaches as well.


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    #1316
    lab man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭lab man


    p_haugh wrote:
    Well I think they use part of the quick park they run in Dublin airport to park up coaches as well.
    small place in ennis 2 or 3 busses always left there


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    #1317
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    end of the road wrote: »
    tbh i would be surprised if the dublin cork via waterford service would get any through patronage, but you never know i suppose.
    i would reccan the journeys are dublin kilkenny, dublin waterford, kilkenny waterford, waterford cork.
    i think and it's just a guess, that the service is just a combination of 2 services, dublin waterford and waterford cork, for whatever reason. probably to allow the usage of less vehicles and drivers, i presume dublin cork via waterford isn't a very frequent route?

    I’ve gotten it once from Kilkenny down to cork. Long enough journey in itself on their ****e buses but lots of passengers stayed on all the way to cork. Well over a dozen at least that day. They’d have had to get on either in Dublin City centre or the Red Cow luas


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    #1318
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    When i got it back from Cork the bus took a very circuitous route in Waterford- turned left after WIT/old Waterford Crystal site and up through older housing estates and by the Super Valu and down into the Quays- does it normally do this? I'd have assumed it would take the normal route into the city via Manor st as that would be much quicker I'd imagine?


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    #1319
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    Mixed experiences. The few times I've traveled with them they've been late by at least 15 mins, maximum 35 mins. The drivers are odd, on one long trip to Dublin we had a young guy who looked like a skater absolutely tearing it up the motorway, an old lady behind me was fit to lose her life, shouting loudly (well within earshot of the driver) about how the driver is mad and she's never taking this bus again!

    On the flip side, I was once stuck in the middle of nowhere, stormy weather, stood at a bus stop for a Bus Eireann bus that it seems wasn't going to arrive only for a Dublin Coach to pull up, asked me where I'm going, told me to hop on and drove me into the city centre for free. Really cool thing to do!


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    #1320
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,402 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    LineOfBeauty wrote: »
    Mixed experiences. The few times I've traveled with them they've been late by at least 15 mins, maximum 35 mins. The drivers are odd, on one long trip to Dublin we had a young guy who looked like a skater absolutely tearing it up the motorway, an old lady behind me was fit to lose her life, shouting loudly (well within earshot of the driver) about how the driver is mad and she's never taking this bus again!

    On the flip side, I was once stuck in the middle of nowhere, stormy weather, stood at a bus stop for a Bus Eireann bus that it seems wasn't going to arrive only for a Dublin Coach to pull up, asked me where I'm going, told me to hop on and drove me into the city centre for free. Really cool thing to do!

    Yes the timetable often runs late. Especially on the run up from Cork it seems to get tipped out of kilter very easily. I wouldn't like to be commuting with them for work where you are tied to time.

    Agree re the drivers, they are odd. They seem to be on edge sometimes, almost entirely foreign- id' say they're very strictly monitored cash wise as I've seen one double check where people were getting off and the ticket they had- one lad had to get off as he planned to stay until next stop and hadn't paid for that far (and must have had no cash!). No codding them


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    #1321
    LineOfBeauty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    road_high wrote: »
    Yes the timetable often runs late. Especially on the run up from Cork it seems to get tipped out of kilter very easily. I wouldn't like to be commuting with them for work where you are tied to time.

    Agree re the drivers, they are odd. They seem to be on edge sometimes, almost entirely foreign- id' say they're very strictly monitored cash wise as I've seen one double check where people were getting off and the ticket they had- one lad had to get off as he planned to stay until next stop and hadn't paid for that far (and must have had no cash!). No codding them

    It's an eclectic mix is the best way to sum them up. There's one older, Eastern European gentleman who is something else, I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall and seen the reaction when he showed up for his interview.


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