Ionity charging network

Marlow · 17-01-2020 12:38PM

Silent Running wrote: »

The only real difference is that Teslas can use all other networks whereas no other marque can use the Tesla network.

To be honest, specificly Tesla superchargers and their lack of sharing them is not a problem in Ireland either. They only have 3 supercharger locations totally nationwide and each of them has a Ionity one not far from them.

That and the fact, that often other chargers are also on those locations.

/M

Silent Running · 17-01-2020 12:46PM

Marlow wrote: »

To be honest, specificly Tesla superchargers and their lack of sharing them is not a problem in Ireland either. They only have 3 supercharger locations totally nationwide and each of them has a Ionity one not far from them.

That and the fact, that often other chargers are also on those locations.

/M

Yes, but I'm a regular driver in the UK. Membury services supercharger is right beside what is probably the least reliable CCS charger in the UK. And that's around halfway on my drive.

That's what got me thinking about the double standards coming from Tesla. Whether Ecotricity should have a stranglehold on public motorway service areas is quite another argument.

Marlow · 17-01-2020 12:51PM

Silent Running wrote: »

Yes, but I'm a regular driver in the UK. Membury services supercharger is right beside what is probably the least reliable CCS charger in the UK. And that's around halfway on my drive.

Funny you mention the UK. I find it quite hilarious, that Ireland has more Ionity Superchargers at the moment than the UK. I know they're building quite a few, but none of those are online.

4 locations in Ireland .... only 3 in the UK.

/M

Silent Running · 17-01-2020 12:55PM

Marlow wrote: »

Funny you mention the UK. I find it quite hilarious, that Ireland has more Ionity Superchargers at the moment than the UK. I know they're building quite a few, but none of those are online.

4 locations in Ireland .... only 3 in the UK.

/M

Maybe they're only building a European network and have stopped building in 3rd countries. :P

KCross · 17-01-2020 01:07PM

ELM327 wrote: »

So VW get €8.40 per charge session!

liamog wrote: »

I suspect that will change before the ID.3 is released, right now, it's only the e-Up and e-Golf. The latest e-Golf and e-Up have about 32kWh available, so €8.40 probably isn't too far away from 33c/kWh, if you take an 80% charge.

The ID.3 1st edition will get free access for a year(or 2000kWh) so I'd say VW will stick with this pricing model for now.

When the normal ID.3 is on sale it will be 50kW as standard and has smaller batteries than eTron and Taycan etc so maybe they think the €8 is appropriate for VW customers.

There will be lots of maneuvering of prices after this announcement thats for sure.

liamog · 17-01-2020 01:15PM

Battery size is more important, plugin a standard ID.3 to an Ionity charger, get 80% for 18c/kWh isn't going to look good for their other partners.
VW are the only one in the list who do not currently have a large battery car. That changes this summer.

Doh, just spotted BMW are on the list, but they are charging by minute instead of kWh.

Marlow · 17-01-2020 01:18PM

liamog wrote: »

Doh, just spotted BMW are on the list, but they are charging by minute instead of kWh.

Yep .. and the i3 would qualify as large battery car

But BMW costs are completely different to the others.

/M

liamog · 17-01-2020 01:21PM

Marlow wrote: »

Yep .. and the i3 would qualify as large battery car But BMW costs are completely different to the others.

/M

Not particularly, I3 has about 38kWh usable vs an e-Golf which has 36kWh. Large batteries to me are around 60kWh+

fricatus · 17-01-2020 01:41PM

zg3409 wrote: »

Tesla cars are (were) highest Ionity users

https://www.completecar.ie/car-news/article/9751/IONITY-confirms-new-charging-pricing-for-EVs?fbclid=IwAR1CIEZJCNIHDABywxwezNIQKoi9-W3ol6irp6DclsE-oKkwEHS1xdYh4xM

I would assume that this pricing structure is aimed at making sure that the Ionity consortium isn't facilitating the purchase and use of Teslas!

unkel · 17-01-2020 01:59PM

liamog wrote: »

Eventually yes, but for now it's exactly like using the Maingau card. You use whatever card comes from your manufacturer linked charging service.

My best mate in the Netherlands successfully applied for a BMW card earlier this week to be used for Ionity, based on the VIN from his BMW 120i that he sold to buy a Tesla Model 3 a year ago :pac:

liamog · 17-01-2020 02:17PM

My ID.3 might not be the only car that get's charged using my free WeCharge allowance that comes with it!

Silent Running · 17-01-2020 02:20PM

liamog wrote: »

My ID.3 might not be the only car that get's charged using my free WeCharge allowance that comes with it!

But won't it be VIN matched?

Can you fill a jerry can with spare electricity?

zg3409 · 17-01-2020 02:48PM

unkel wrote: »

My best mate in the Netherlands successfully applied for a BMW card earlier this week to be used for Ionity, based on the VIN from his BMW 120i that he sold to buy a Tesla Model 3 a year ago :pac:

And what happens when the new owner of the BMW attempts to also get a charge card? I am not against bending the rules but in this case his card should be deactivated.

unkel · 17-01-2020 02:55PM

It will be some time before the CCS charger can read the VIN of the car and act accordingly. Until then we all drive BMWs - or whoever provides the cheapest per kwh card :pac:

Silent Running wrote: »

Can you fill a jerry can with spare electricity?

I can

It will hold the equivalent of just a small glass of petrol though, enough for just a few km.

Silent Running · 17-01-2020 03:01PM

unkel wrote: »

It will be some time before the CCS charger can read the VIN of the car and act accordingly. Until then we all drive BMWs - or whoever provides the cheapest per kwh card :pac:

Are you sure about that? I thought that information passing back and forward was part of the handshake. Would this not include some vehicle identifier?

unkel · 17-01-2020 03:07PM

No, I am not sure about it. But I doubt it is implemented at the moment. Why else would the Ionity consortium allow non-Ionity cars to charge? And why would someone be able to get a BMW charge card with the VIN of a petrol car?

Maybe someone in the know could clarify what the time frame is for all this.

liamog · 17-01-2020 03:09PM

Silent Running wrote: »

Are you sure about that? I thought that information passing back and forward was part of the handshake. Would this not include some vehicle identifier?

If you are referring to how Fastned have achieved plug and charge, they've done it via MAC address. The CCS plug and charge system is all implemented via certificates. At the moment the RFID card is used to identify the account, in the future it will be a digital cert installed in the car.

charlieIRL · 17-01-2020 03:21PM

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I’m in favour of this — happy to pay a premium for fast charging if it means a more available and reliable network.

Most of my charging is done at home — when I’m driving long-distance, my priorities in order are:

- availability
- speed
- price

I've never seen a que at Ionity so having more available was never an issue.

charlieIRL · 17-01-2020 03:21PM

Silent Running wrote: »

VW are selling cars with access to Ionity as a selling point, even offering free Ionity charging for a year.

I never got offered that when i bought mine in October.

KCross · 17-01-2020 03:25PM

charlieIRL wrote: »

I never got offered that when i bought mine in October.

ID.3 1st edition is getting it.

MJohnston · 17-01-2020 03:38PM

unkel wrote: »

It will be some time before the CCS charger can read the VIN of the car and act accordingly. Until then we all drive BMWs - or whoever provides the cheapest per kwh card :pac:

Why would the VIN need to be read from the car though? Just restrict accounts/cards to VINs, surely?

Anyone know what the BMW ChargeNow situation is in Ireland? The Ireland link on this page leads to a 404 (nothing more frustrating than websites that don't redirect deleted pages).

markpb · 17-01-2020 03:39PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Why would the VIN need to be read from the car though? Just restrict accounts/cards to VINs, surely?

Presumably to have a system like Tesla where the car is tied to an account and payment method so all you need to do to charge is plug it in. No messing with apps, cards, QR codes, etc.

redcup342 · 17-01-2020 03:45PM

unkel wrote: »

It will be some time before the CCS charger can read the VIN of the car and act accordingly. Until then we all drive BMWs - or whoever provides the cheapest per kwh card :pac:

I can

It will hold the equivalent of just a small glass of petrol though, enough for just a few km.

Came in around 7 years ago I think:
https://www.iso.org/standard/55365.html

Plug & Charge is not tied to a manufacturer, it's PKI based, meaning you could have any supplier, think of it like Having Apple pay on your phone. You can have a "card" on the device but the device itself is not the identifier.

https://v2g-clarity.com/knowledgebase/basics-of-plug-and-charge/

Hubject is the main project with the same players as Ionity:
https://www.hubject.com/en/plugcharge/

While the hardware is there, the software implementation is not there yet.

Rafal · 17-01-2020 05:09PM

Silent Running wrote: »

The companies involved in Ionity didn't get it for free, they paid for it too. If they used the Tesla mindset, they'd only allow access for paying partners. Tesla could, of course, pay for access. Do they?

Not entirely. You, I, and all of us European taxpayers paid for Ionity. Over 20% of Ionity was EU funded as part of the EUROPE-E programme. That means, as an indirect stakeholder, I must have fair access to it even if I drive a Tesla.

Tesla, on the other hand, built their network privately. They still have an open offer for other networks to join them—but as we are in the early stages of another bubble, gold-rush mentality means cooperation is harder than staking a new claim.

ELM327 · 17-01-2020 05:11PM

Rafal wrote: »

Not entirely. You, I, and all of us European taxpayers paid for Ionity. Over 20% of Ionity was EU funded as part of the EUROPE-E programme. That means, as an indirect stakeholder, I must have fair access to it even if I drive a Tesla.

Tesla, on the other hand, built their network privately. They still have an open offer for other networks to join them—but as we are in the early stages of another bubble, gold-rush mentality means cooperation is harder than staking a new claim.

Excellent. So that's the reason they cannot close it to non Ionity group cars

Rafal · 17-01-2020 05:42PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Excellent. So that's the reason they cannot close it to non Ionity group cars

That is my understanding—unfortunately, I think they can try pricing out non-German car makes with the proposed model.

I wonder if Musk would consider joining them, or has he the resolve to keep expanding Tesla European network at a good pace.

liamog · 17-01-2020 08:42PM

I can't see any reason why Tesla shouldn't launch its own mobility services provider for Tesla users.

ewj1978 · 18-01-2020 08:46AM

So how does one go about getting the new pricing from their manufacturer?

I've an I3 and soon to have an E-soul. Do i just apply to BMW and Kia for a new card?

McGiver · 18-01-2020 10:11AM

ewj1978 wrote:

I've an I3 and soon to have an E-soul. Do i just apply to BMW and Kia for a new card?

BMW should have something like ChargeNow but that's not available in here. It's available in few countries, Germany etc.

Choose your tariff
Provided by Digital Charging Solutions GmbH

ChargeNow Flex

Charge without a basic fee

activation fee 20.00
monthly fee 0.00 / month

loading prices
AC charging
0.07 / min (day)
0.035 / min (night)

DC charging
0.30 / min

Also, they advise to use ChargePoint on their website for people who can't do chargeNow. Chargepoint has Ionity at 6.18, let's see if it changes after 1st February.

September1 · 18-01-2020 03:05PM

I checked today and Chargepoint is now 7.42 per session.

Ionity charging network

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