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How to stop teenagers getting involved in crime

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,034 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Meaning what ?

    A child is dead.

    l


    Don't you mean an absolute scumbag is dead?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,034 ✭✭✭Feisar


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    What hope did he ever have of being a well adjusted, moral child when you look at who raised him?

    I'm not excusing him I just think its a really sad and depressing reality that there is no hope for the kids of these scumbags.

    Breed from a wild duck and what do you expect?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Feisar wrote: »
    Breed from a wild duck and what do you expect?

    No one can help what family they are born into.
    He is a product of his upbringing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    What hope did he ever have of being a well adjusted, moral child when you look at who raised him?

    I'm not excusing him I just think its a really sad and depressing reality that there is no hope for the kids of these scumbags.
    Aye, some kids' lives are mapped out.

    Doesn't mean they aren't scumbags or absolved of responsibility, but if they had a good upbringing, it's extremely unlikely they'd end up down the same road.

    People can't be saying in one breath "the poor kids haven't a chance" and then "don't care if they had a hard life". It's contradictory. Like it or not, not addressing the root causes won't help break the cycle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    CucaFace wrote: »
    What do we expect really? We are into maybe the 3rd generation now of complete and utter wasters who have been brought up in Ireland at a time in our history when things were never as good (full employment and no need to emigrate) and still they cannot go and find a job or do anything positive for society because everything has been handed to them for free.

    We have copied the UK on this and look how bad area's are over there now. We are going the same way. We have basically sponsored the creation of a feral race of humans in this country over the last 30 years and of course they will act like the wild animals they are, with very little effort to make them responsible for anything they do in life. In fact they try to play the victim card that they are the under privileged when they have caused all this themselves by their behaviour and attitude going back over generations.

    There is no responsibility taken in their lives by these people at all.

    All thanks to the Liberal agenda


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 299 ✭✭Stephen Gawking


    D3V!L wrote: »
    Conscription, it'll put manners on them.

    Unfortunately its not always that simple. With some all you're doing is equipping them with the skills needed to kill armed & unarmed. There are those who will always gravitate towards criminal activity. Our overly generous welfare state & not fit for purpose criminal justice system needs root & branch reform for a start.


  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/the-animals-who-prowled-1930s-dublin-26878497.html

    Ailin Quinlan recalls the Animal Gangs of Dublin's tenements who used iron hooks, knuckle dusters and potatoes spiked with razor blades in their brawls.

    1930s Dublin.

    https://www.historyireland.com/18th-19th-century-history/women-of-the-pave-prostitution-in-ireland/

    1894 there were 74 brothels operating openly in Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 373 ✭✭JMMCapital


    Education.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,075 ✭✭✭MarkY91


    Tell me, have any of you asked the question as to why teenagers are getting into crime in the first place?

    Because they want to be little knacker gangsters. They love looking like notorious drug dealers throwing shapes in their Gucci jumpers and sunglasses inside of a dark nightclub. Not that difficult to figure out.

    Not having any opportunities isn't an excuse. Nothing stopping them getting a job in Tesco or McDonald's.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats




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  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I get that many on boards don't approve or don't believe that fear of punishment/law is a good method, but it certainly worked for me once I knew the effects. Not necessarily the prison time itself, but the loss of status, and the inability to travel afterwards.

    I grew up in a midlands town that, when I was a teen was a rather rough place. Crime was always an option especially with the associations/friendships with travelers or other "lower" income families. We all went to the same schools, and spent a lot of time together. Peer pressure was a definite part of why people engaged in dangerous or stupid behavior.

    My parents had curfews for us, and punished us when we broke the rules. Not simply physical punishment, although that was definitely part of it, but also the more psychological or emotional punishments. All of that seems to be gone these days as there are apparently better ways to raise children. It always seems a pity to me that nobody teaches new parents these fabulous new parenting techniques... instead, they're left to figure it out for themselves.

    I do wonder at the logic of it all. We condemn parents for bad parenting but do nothing to actually provide them with the skills to do good parenting... Just as we condemn the poor for becoming poor, but we remove anything like, home economics, from schools. It seems like we are setting people up for the fall, and then, can stand back to judge them for failing.

    Personally, I feel that Irish society has approached this whole issue in a rather stupid way. We demand that physical punishment be removed, but don't provide any realistic alternatives. Instead, there's a host of literature on parenting and child psychology, which often, not only counters each other, but is based on... nothing but the imagination, or personal experiences of the author. Hardly very concrete and very open to being misused.

    Just as we remove the traditional boundaries that held children in place. Discipline in the schools, and the removal of the churches influence. Nothing is pushed in to replace the void of that discipline.. Instead, it's all about soft approaches with very vague suggestions, but ultimately deciding very little.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm single. Never had children. Abroad, I've taught primary, secondary, and I'm now a university lecturer. I've read a host of books on child psychology, and classroom discipline/organisation... but I wouldn't have a feckin clue on how to raise a child...

    I could guess...I could research it on the internet, or read more books, however, considering the importance of parenting in the development of children, why should I need to guess? Shouldn't there be programs in place to teach and support parents in the raising of their children? Not only teaching, but access to other support units?

    In regards to the children/teens themselves... I'd favor the enforcing of harsher sentencing for serious crime, and the publication of such sentencing. Inform teens of the very real consequences of what would happen if they were ever convicted on a crime. While it won't prevent those intent on that lifestyle, it might encourage others to do more to avoid it. I often feel that there is a lot of assuming going on. That teens just know already the cost of being convicted of a crime, and I wonder do they really know?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    MarkY91 wrote: »
    Because they want to be little knacker gangsters. They love looking like notorious drug dealers throwing shapes in their Gucci jumpers and sunglasses inside of a dark nightclub. Not that difficult to figure out.

    Not having any opportunities isn't an excuse. Nothing stopping them getting a job in Tesco or McDonald's.

    A simple 'no' would have sufficed.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Rezident


    Your kids will become like the friends they hang around with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Gobb


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Just listing to an interview about this.

    School are very good more or less there is a lot of support available.

    We have low unemployment certainly in the areas where the big Drug gangs are active.

    Is there a big cultural shift going on regarding crime? very hard to captuer that.

    Two things that lead to crime, are poverty and greed. As long as either remain present in society, so will crime.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Gobb wrote: »
    Two things that lead to crime, are poverty and greed. As long as either remain present in society, so will crime.

    Probably boredom as well.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You start off your post by saying I'm wrong, but by the end of it, you are saying he would have made choices from a limited set.

    People need to cop on and stop making excuses for all these scumbags. It is for this very reason the country is being overrun by them. It's the usual sh!te every time one of them is killed......"ah he was only a kid", "he didn't know better", "he was a lovely young lad and used to bring me smokes from the shop every two days when I was too sick to go out". Bollox. He acted like a scumbag, got mixed up in drugs and has nobody to blame but himself. There is always a choice. It might not be an easy choice to see or even take, but there is always a choice. If there wasn't always a choice, then every single kid born to scumbag parents would turn to the drug world

    I didn't say you were wrong just mistaken. They are not the same thing.

    Limited choices means not having free will to choose. The same way it would be very difficult to go against all your up bringing to become a criminal the same goes the other way.

    It isn't an excuse but a reality that some people don't know any better the same way some people do. Don't discount the luck you have of birth as meaning you would act any differently if you were raised the same way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You start off your post by saying I'm wrong, but by the end of it, you are saying he would have made choices from a limited set.

    People need to cop on and stop making excuses for all these scumbags. It is for this very reason the country is being overrun by them. It's the usual sh!te every time one of them is killed......"ah he was only a kid", "he didn't know better", "he was a lovely young lad and used to bring me smokes from the shop every two days when I was too sick to go out". Bollox. He acted like a scumbag, got mixed up in drugs and has nobody to blame but himself. There is always a choice. It might not be an easy choice to see or even take, but there is always a choice. If there wasn't always a choice, then every single kid born to scumbag parents would turn to the drug world

    The problem isn't that he was a kid, the problem is that at one point before crime, he was a kid. Yes he made mad choices yes he may (or may not) have been a scumbag or just done something scummy.

    I'd agree with you about making excuses. If we're at the making excuses or making venting comments, then we're kinda too late.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    The problem isn't that he was a kid, the problem is that at one point before crime, he was a kid. Yes he made mad choices yes he may (or may not) have been a scumbag or just done something scummy.


    Dahmer was a kid. One who tortured and killed animals much like this guy did. There is no question that he did scummy things, many of them. That would make him a scumbag in my book.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dahmer was a kid. One who tortured and killed animals much like this guy did. There is no question that he did scummy things, many of them. That would make him a scumbag in my book.

    Yep and I'm not saying that psychopathy doesn't exist. But not every kid who does somerthing is a psychopath.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Yep and I'm not saying that psychopathy doesn't exist. But not every kid who does somerthing is a psychopath.


    No but from all reports it seems as if this particular kid was headed that way.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    No but from all reports it seems as if this particular kid was headed that way.

    I'm talking generally, as per the thread's title. Delboy's post said "these scumbags", so wasn't referring to anyone specifically.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,006 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    IMO, we've taken the first major step by legalising abortion and making it free: less unwanted children being born should result in less scumbag teenagers. Taking our education system out of the hands of religious orders and ensuring that proper sex education is a mandatory part of the Junior Cert curriculum would be a big help in this regard too.

    The next step is harder to deal with: how do we discourage young women from seeing becoming a single parent as a career path without hurting single parents? Please don't get me wrong here: there are thousands of wonderful single parents. Any studies I've seen however, show a strong correlation between kids raised without a father figure and future incarceration / legal troubles. In and of itself, There's nothing wrong with being a single parent and those in that position deserve far more support than they currently get but we need to find a means of eliminating the idea that getting pregnant at 17/18 will get you a "free house" and "free cash" for the rest of your life...

    A good first steps might be to eliminate the discounting on the purchase of social housing and removal of the cap on Differential Rents in social housing (ensuring that council properties become more expensive as household income rises which would eventually make it cheaper to pay a mortgage or a private rent if you get out to work). This should result in the idea of social housing being a "forever home" and free up some social housing for families currently in temporary accommodation. Limiting childrens allowance payments and/or additional dependent welfare payments to two children might also deter some from seeing breeding as a career, though this might be unnecessarily harsh on the genuine cases (e.g. where a family breakdown has occurred and a parent finds him/herself having to give up employment and in need of social housing and welfare in order to raise 3/4 kids).

    State funded childcare provided during the hours that parents are working might be another benefit here: at present, a single parent (or even the lower earning parent in the case of many couples) would need a fairly large salary in order to make it worth his/her while to work. Free childcare could be an enormous incentive to getting parents into the workforce and providing them with the means to raise their kids with the role-model of a productive member of society with some disposable income rather than a desperately trying to make ends meet welfare dependent who might be very tempted to do the odd "small courier job" for the local drug dealer when he/she wants to get a few quid together to give their kids a nice Christmas.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    I'm talking generally, as per the thread's title. Delboy's post said "these scumbags", so wasn't referring to anyone specifically.

    They are all scumbags, you see them in the bookies, hanging about streets in Dundalk calling each other fam and blood, smoking joints to make them "cool"

    Good kicking by Gardai when they are younger would sort them out

    Parents getting criminal charges for their children's behaviour would help too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    They are all scumbags, you see them in the bookies, hanging about streets in Dundalk calling each other fam and blood, smoking joints to make them "cool"
    Doesn't counter anyrhing I've written.
    Good kicking by Gardai when they are younger would sort them out
    Didn't support state-endorsed beatings of children when it last happened, not gonna supprt it now.
    Parents getting criminal charges for their children's behaviour would help too

    Wouldn't be against this in theory for habitual offenders; but alongside mandatory parenting classes.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭mlem123


    Sleepy wrote: »
    The next step is harder to deal with: how do we discourage young women from seeing becoming a single parent as a career path without hurting single parents? Please don't get me wrong here: there are thousands of wonderful single parents. Any studies I've seen however, show a strong correlation between kids raised without a father figure and future incarceration / legal troubles. In and of itself, There's nothing wrong with being a single parent and those in that position deserve far more support than they currently get but we need to find a means of eliminating the idea that getting pregnant at 17/18 will get you a "free house" and "free cash" for the rest of your life...

    Rather than blaming women for becoming single mothers who don't provide father figures, how about we hold these absent fathers accountable! How do they find it so easy to walk away? California has the system where if you don't pay child support you can't renew passport or driving licence


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭fattymuatty


    We need supports and services that actually do things. I've been trying to get support from various services lately for a young lad I know who is an early school leaver with disabilities who is facing homelessness and have been told there is nothing anyone will do but put him up for the night in hostel and leave him walk the streets in the day. These young people who feel like there is nothing there for them, that no one cares are mostly right. The 18 year old I am trying to help doesn't have parents who care, no one will employ him as he doesn't even has a leaving cert, no one wants to rent a house to him because he doesn't have a job, no agencies at all will offer any help(and I have tried and been fobbed off by everyone), it seems inevitable that this vulnerable young man is going to end up on the streets. When you cut and cut services to the point where everyone just shrugs when you present them with an autistic 18yr old living week to week in a b&b that are kicking him out in 2 weeks, paid for out of his disability allowance leaving him with 20e a week to feed himself there is something seriously wrong with society.

    The idea that these young people who grow up with nothing and nobody(that is any use to them anyway) are suddenly going to turn into functioning members of society is laughable. You need to give them somewhere they can turn to, an alternative that feels achievable. Their parents are clearly unable to do that so the government needs to step in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    They are all scumbags, you see them in the bookies, hanging about streets in Dundalk calling each other fam and blood, smoking joints to make them "cool"

    Good kicking by Gardai when they are younger would sort them out

    Parents getting criminal charges for their children's behaviour would help too

    Yeah I remember the Gardai in Coolock who got great pleasure out of attacking children. They really are what the peace officer should be doing. The kids of course all grew up thanking them and went on the straight and narrow.

    Happened to me while walking up to a friend to pick up home work. Two Gardai jump out of the car started pushing me around and punching me because I was obviously going to get drugs. It just instilled in me never trust the Gardai. Others absolutely hating them forever more and no trust from the community.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,760 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    mariaalice wrote:
    School are very good more or less there is a lot of support available.


    Our educational system completely fails to meet the needs of a proportion of society, it can in fact exasperate some situations


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Our educational system completely fails to meet the needs of a proportion of society, it can in fact exasperate some situations

    We have a one-size-fits-all education system which, for some reason I will enver undersntad, is expected to fit every child in the State.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,760 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    We have a one-size-fits-all education system which, for some reason I will enver undersntad, is expected to fit every child in the State.


    Cost saving, convenience and ignorance maybe


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