HAP scheme - pros and cons for a landlord?

tvjunki · 24-03-2019 12:30pm

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Her 10 percent is 200 a month roughly.
Plus 650 top up for a 2bed apartment
So 850 without bills. That's nothing to be jealous of to be honest.
Add in food electricity gas phone petrol insurance that monthly wage your on is gone and it struggling week by week even on HAP.
Country's a mess

With hap there are limits to the amount the council will pay depending on the family dynamics and council you are living in.
So if you are a couple no kids you get say for fingal 900. If you go above that and you are working part or full time you pay a small about. If the council feel you cannot afford the top up you are now allowed to rent the property.If you are living on sw you cannot get more as you have to have a certain amount in your pocket to live on. Yes there is a small exemption but this applies if there is a fear of being homeless.
Your friend has picked a property above the limit for her situation. If she is single the expectation is she will share a property and not be on their own.
Either way the council are paying some rent for her. If she is paying 850 per month (roughly 212.50 a week) she must be renting with her family or she is in the city. Everyone has a choice. She can apply for a mortgage on the affordable scheme (there are issues with that) but if she is paying 850 she could afford a mortgage and she must be earning good money.

circular flexing · 24-03-2019 6:01pm

From https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0324/1038267-hap-stopped-for-650-tenants-due-to-falling-into-arrears/

Figures obtained by RTÉ show that since the payment was rolled out in 2014, over 54,000 HAP tenancies have been set up.

During this period HAP support has been stopped for 665 tenancies due to non-payment of rent.

duskyjoe · 25-03-2019 7:37am

The law is an ass. If you blink as a landlord re a potential HAP tenant you will be fined €2k. I am one of those landlords (accidental) that has been trying to put my apartment on the market to sell. The Hap tenant has squeezed me to the core by refusing point blank to move. Only now having spent thousands on legal fees that this individual with a court date in sight is now getting out. They too also owe me in excess of €3500 in back rent having not been paid their portion of rent for over 8 months. When I explained this to the dept of social protection they didn’t want to know yet i see on the news yesterday tenants that don’t pay their share after two months re rent will have their allowances removed. I and many other landlords are fleeing the market..... government and those on the left believe hardworking landlords that took a risk in investing are de facto the free housing association . The term land lord is equated to someone going around in cords and a cravat not someone on a bike trying to make things work...the RTB imo is just a kick the can up the road device to give tenants time to sort themselves out but offers no real protection to landlords imo apart from determination notices which then can eventually give you access to the courts. So we wonder why we have a housing crisis? I’ll tell you from my perspective ...... abusive HAP tenants have destroyed any good will by landlords to let to this market meaning decent HAPs get utterly shafted. Thousands of units in Dublin are vacant as landlords are either selling or not renting, leaving units either bought by cash or vulture funds.
The question is , who directs and advises HAP tenants to behave and flout the law ? I am certainly very very bitter on how I have been treated and this whole sorry affair getting a HAP tenant out I reckon between losing momentum in the market and costs has cost me over €15k and to refurb the unit for sale will cost me another 10k presuming the unit is thrashed.

GGTrek · 25-03-2019 8:27am

circular flexing wrote: »

From https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0324/1038267-hap-stopped-for-650-tenants-due-to-falling-into-arrears/

Let's do a proper quoting from the article of what having a HAP tenant means:
"She is a single mother with two children aged nine and 15 and is in receipt of the Housing Assistance Payment, but she was not able to keep up with total rent contribution of €80 a week."
This person could not prioritize rent of just 80 a week! And what happened (apart from the sob story the sold out media is trying to convey in order to justify the unjustifiable):
"I'm getting €256 a week and there's over €3,500 owed to the landlord plus another €750 at the end of March and I'm not in that position to pay that type of money."
The landlord is getting shafted big time and to avoid looking bad on sold out media like RTE the fool says:
Joan's landlord John Murphy says he has been left out of pocket and has not received a rental payment since November.
He says: "It means that there is a property that's not generating any funds either from the tenant or from HAP.
"It's a position where I could ask the tenant to leave but I don't. She has young children it would be difficult for me to ask someone in that situation to leave I just couldn't do it."

Now the OP can clearly see the huge risk of having a HAP tenant, the person clearly did not explain where she spent the money received from the taxpayer. Clearly she does not work at all and could not bother to spend 80 of the 256 eur she receives from the taxpayer to contribute to her rent! She did not explain what she did with all the 1280 EUR of missing contributions to rent since November.

25-03-2019 8:50am

GGTrek wrote: »

Let's do a proper quoting from the article of what having a HAP tenant means:
"She is a single mother with two children aged nine and 15 and is in receipt of the Housing Assistance Payment, but she was not able to keep up with total rent contribution of €80 a week."
This person could not prioritize rent of just 80 a week! And what happened (apart from the sob story the sold out media is trying to convey in order to justify the unjustifiable):
"I'm getting €256 a week and there's over €3,500 owed to the landlord plus another €750 at the end of March and I'm not in that position to pay that type of money."
The landlord is getting shafted big time and to avoid looking bad on sold out media like RTE the fool says:
Joan's landlord John Murphy says he has been left out of pocket and has not received a rental payment since November.
He says: "It means that there is a property that's not generating any funds either from the tenant or from HAP.
"It's a position where I could ask the tenant to leave but I don't. She has young children it would be difficult for me to ask someone in that situation to leave I just couldn't do it."

Now the OP can clearly see the huge risk of having a HAP tenant, the person clearly did not explain where she spent the money received from the taxpayer. Clearly she does not work at all and could not bother to spend 80 of the 256 eur she receives from the taxpayer to contribute to her rent! She did not explain what she did with all the 1280 EUR of missing contributions to rent since November.

While for the most part I tend to agree with your posts and find your research very informative, as the father of two teenagers I can assure you €175 a week would barely feed them. I agree HAP tenants are much less appealing than “private” renters for a variety of reasons, but this problem owes a lot to government policy.

tvjunki · 25-03-2019 9:13am

GGTrek wrote: »

Let's do a proper quoting from the article of what having a HAP tenant means:
"She is a single mother with two children aged nine and 15 and is in receipt of the Housing Assistance Payment, but she was not able to keep up with total rent contribution of €80 a week."
This person could not prioritize rent of just 80 a week! And what happened (apart from the sob story the sold out media is trying to convey in order to justify the unjustifiable):
"I'm getting €256 a week and there's over €3,500 owed to the landlord plus another €750 at the end of March and I'm not in that position to pay that type of money."
The landlord is getting shafted big time and to avoid looking bad on sold out media like RTE the fool says:
Joan's landlord John Murphy says he has been left out of pocket and has not received a rental payment since November.
He says: "It means that there is a property that's not generating any funds either from the tenant or from HAP.
"It's a position where I could ask the tenant to leave but I don't. She has young children it would be difficult for me to ask someone in that situation to leave I just couldn't do it."

Now the OP can clearly see the huge risk of having a HAP tenant, the person clearly did not explain where she spent the money received from the taxpayer. Clearly she does not work at all and could not bother to spend 80 of the 256 eur she receives from the taxpayer to contribute to her rent! She did not explain what she did with all the 1280 EUR of missing contributions to rent since November.

I bet she has the full sky package, and spends her money elsewhere. A persons priority should be your rent as you need a roof over your head and then food and heat. The government have decided what someone can live on and if you spend your money on other things then that is your problem not the landlords problem. The 256euros does not include child benefit. Then where is the father? In the uk some of the fathers wages or benefit is stopped to pay for the children. Why can they not do that here?
The council are saving a fortune by not paying the rent to the landlord when the tenant does not pay their share. No wonder landlords are walking away.

GGTrek · 25-03-2019 9:24am

Dav010 wrote: »

While for the most part I tend to agree with your posts and find your research very informative, as the father of two teenagers I can assure you €175 a week would barely feed them. I agree HAP tenants are much less appealing than “private” renters for a variety of reasons, but this problem owes a lot to government policy.

If she is in such a dire situation, she can start working to add up some extra income. It's not like she has small babies that require 24hrs attention. Her children (9 and 15) probably go to school. Plenty of foreigners in Dublin do cleaning jobs that the Irish don't want to do and receive 10eur x hour (after tax), with just 8hrs of cleaning jobs per week she could have paid her rent contributions. For me it is unjustifiable what she has done and the sob story is even worse.

I have never been afraid of doing hard work in my life (I still clean my rental properties and help builders with cleaning up, loading and unloading when I visit Dublin), but I can tell you I can see plenty of people who are very afraid to work. Lately I called a few primary school teachers to ask for English private tutoring for my children and many of them love their free time (one told me "I work 5-6 hours a day, I do not have the time to give private tutoring at the moment!":D), then these same people complain that they do not have enough money to live in Dublin.

In Ireland it is very easy for these "unemployed" people to get some minimum wage job to complement their benefits and live a more decent life, many times it is their (bad/lazy) choices that cause the situation they are in. I only justify long term unemployment if you have serious disabilities and I have seen disabled people who actually want to work.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 25-03-2019 10:01am

GGTrek wrote:

I have never been afraid of doing hard work in my life (I still clean my rental properties and help builders with cleaning up, loading and unloading when I visit Dublin), but I can tell you I can see plenty of people who are very afraid to work. Lately I called a few primary school teachers to ask for English private tutoring for my children and many of them love their free time (one told me "I work 5-6 hours a day, I do not have the time to give private tutoring at the moment!" ), then these same people complain that they do not have enough money to live in Dublin.

GGTrek wrote:

In Ireland it is very easy for these "unemployed" people to get some minimum wage job to complement their benefits and live a more decent life, many times it is their (bad/lazy) choices that cause the situation they are in. I only justify long term unemployment if you have serious disabilities and I have seen disabled people who actually want to work.

Well aren't you just great ðŸ™„

JustAThought · 25-03-2019 10:19am

Two of my close neighbours rented through the SW - not sure whether hap or rent allowance. In both instances they wete unlucky to get scangers & chancers. One 'slipped on a mat' (while drunk) and is suing & the other said there was a draughr coming in the door and she now has a bad shoulder and is threatining to sue. Personally I'd keep to the working market where people can afford to pay their bills & are not permenently living on the make snd where you are not worrying about them living from weekly financial crisis to crisis and not complying with their social welfare conditions to pay their way and for you to be paid for the services they have already recieved.

Old diesel · 25-03-2019 10:35am

JustAThought wrote: »

Two of my close neighbours rented through the SW - not sure whether hap or rent allowance. In both instances they wete unlucky to get scangers & chancers. One 'slipped on a mat' (while drunk) and is suing & the other said there was a draughr coming in the door and she now has a bad shoulder and is threatining to sue. Personally I'd keep to the working market where people can afford to pay their bills & are not permenently living on the make snd where you are not worrying about them living from weekly financial crisis to crisis and not complying with their social welfare conditions to pay their way and for you to be paid for the services they have already recieved.

You can be on HAP and working - that was actually one of the reasons HAP was bought in.

As for being able to pay their bills - the mega rents been charged today mean that the amount of people that can pay their bills is decreasing

FelaniaMump · 25-03-2019 9:25pm

Sure, the're "suing". That's definitely a true thing that happened, for sure.

GGTrek · 25-03-2019 11:53pm

Esme Uptight Matting wrote: »

Well aren't you just great &#55357;&#56900;

Yes I usually am with lazy gits:D

tvjunki · 26-03-2019 5:30pm

Fol20 wrote: »

Id say a lot of people are paying rent privately are jealous of paying 10pc on rent. Id say for a lot of renters they are paying 40-50pc on rent alone

Everyone paying income tax are paying to provide HAP scheme so people can rent at a very reduced rate. Those that have the money and are just under the threshold will take up a scheme like this even if they could manage before.

What about the ones paying 40-50pc of their income in a mortgage? They are told to manage.

Old diesel · 26-03-2019 5:53pm

tvjunki wrote: »

Fol20 wrote: »

Id say a lot of people are paying rent privately are jealous of paying 10pc on rent. Id say for a lot of renters they are paying 40-50pc on rent alone

Everyone paying income tax are paying to provide HAP scheme so people can rent at a very reduced rate. Those that have the money and are just under the threshold will take up a scheme like this even if they could manage before.

What about the ones paying 40-50pc of their income in a mortgage? They are told to manage.

What does "could manage before" actually look like though.

For me it means someone struggling to make ends meet.

Regardless of HAPs flaws - that isn't a great way to build a viable sustainable society.

Old diesel · 26-03-2019 5:53pm

tvjunki wrote: »

Fol20 wrote: »

Id say a lot of people are paying rent privately are jealous of paying 10pc on rent. Id say for a lot of renters they are paying 40-50pc on rent alone

Everyone paying income tax are paying to provide HAP scheme so people can rent at a very reduced rate. Those that have the money and are just under the threshold will take up a scheme like this even if they could manage before.

What about the ones paying 40-50pc of their income in a mortgage? They are told to manage.

What does "could manage before" actually look like though.

For me it means someone struggling to make ends meet.

Regardless of HAPs flaws - that isn't a great way to build a viable sustainable society.

FelaniaMump · 27-03-2019 11:33am

It's not 10%, thats only for those whose only income is SW. Most HAP tenants pay the max contribution as most of them are working.

KiloDelta · 08-01-2020 8:52pm

Hi all,

This week I have become a Landlord unintentionally. Just a change in circumstances etc etc.

We rented our place out to a person receiving HAP.

Today I received an email from the Local Authority to say that on the 13th of this month I would receive €XXXX.

This figure I am to receive is 3 times the agreed rent.

I assume one is the deposit (Tenant said our deposit would be paid on 13th) and one is the January rent - but can't figure why there would be a third paid already. The website says payments are not until the last Wednesday of the month.

Any ideas? Thanks

emeldc · 08-01-2020 9:40pm

KiloDelta wrote: »

Hi all,

This week I have become a Landlord unintentionally. Just a change in circumstances etc etc.

We rented our place out to a person receiving HAP.

Today I received an email from the Local Authority to say that on the 13th of this month I would receive €XXXX.

This figure I am to receive is 3 times the agreed rent.

I assume one is the deposit (Tenant said our deposit would be paid on 13th) and one is the January rent - but can't figure why there would be a third paid already. The website says payments are not until the last Wednesday of the month.

Any ideas? Thanks

Unless the rules have changed the rent is paid in arrears, hence the last wed in the month. They don’t pay a deposit or at least they didn’t. Why didn’t you ask the tenant for a deposit assuming they’re already in. Were you that stuck for a tenant that you chose someone on SW or without a full time job. If they have paid you 3 months rent in advance, good for you I say. Although I doubt it.

circular flexing · 08-01-2020 9:44pm

emeldc wrote: »

Unless the rules have changed the rent is paid in arrears, hence the last wed in the month. They don’t pay a deposit or at least they didn’t. Why didn’t you ask the tenant for a deposit assuming they’re already in. Were you that stuck for a tenant that you chose someone on SW or without a full time job. If they have paid you 3 months rent in advance, good for you I say. Although I doubt it.

Actually if you are classified as homeless in Dublin city, the council will pay deposit and 2 months rent in advance

http://hap.ie/homeless-hap/

circular flexing · 08-01-2020 9:45pm

KiloDelta wrote: »

Hi all,

This week I have become a Landlord unintentionally. Just a change in circumstances etc etc.

We rented our place out to a person receiving HAP.

Today I received an email from the Local Authority to say that on the 13th of this month I would receive €XXXX.

This figure I am to receive is 3 times the agreed rent.

I assume one is the deposit (Tenant said our deposit would be paid on 13th) and one is the January rent - but can't figure why there would be a third paid already. The website says payments are not until the last Wednesday of the month.

Any ideas? Thanks

I would call the HAP payments section in Limerick and find out - usually they are good on the phone.

the_syco · 08-01-2020 10:06pm

circular flexing wrote: »

Actually if you are classified as homeless in Dublin city, the council will pay deposit and 2 months rent in advance

http://hap.ie/homeless-hap/

I think they started to do this to balance out the way the rent is paid in arrears, so that although it'd be paid in arrears, it'd appear before the rent is due at the start of the month.

Monokne · 08-01-2020 10:08pm

KiloDelta wrote: »

Hi all,

This week I have become a Landlord unintentionally. Just a change in circumstances etc etc.

We rented our place out to a person receiving HAP.

Today I received an email from the Local Authority to say that on the 13th of this month I would receive €XXXX.

This figure I am to receive is 3 times the agreed rent.

I assume one is the deposit (Tenant said our deposit would be paid on 13th) and one is the January rent - but can't figure why there would be a third paid already. The website says payments are not until the last Wednesday of the month.

Any ideas? Thanks

Deposit and 2 months rent I think. Pretty sure that's what I got at first. But then you won't be getting another payment for like 2 months.

Saudades · 08-01-2020 10:24pm

KiloDelta wrote: »

Hi all,

This week I have become a Landlord unintentionally. Just a change in circumstances etc etc.

We rented our place out to a person receiving HAP.

Today I received an email from the Local Authority to say that on the 13th of this month I would receive €XXXX.

This figure I am to receive is 3 times the agreed rent.

I assume one is the deposit (Tenant said our deposit would be paid on 13th) and one is the January rent - but can't figure why there would be a third paid already. The website says payments are not until the last Wednesday of the month.

Any ideas? Thanks

Yes it sounds like your tenant applied for Homeless HAP as opposed to the regular HAP scheme.

"Deposit and two months’ rent upfront available for homeless households only."

PrettyBoy · 08-01-2020 10:46pm

Have two rental properties that I rent out myself (no letting agent or management company) so I meet potential tenants myself and have had to show the house to some HAP recipients at viewings. I would never consider letting a property out to someone that's not paying the rent themselves and is relying on a council to do it for them.

There's no benefit to having a HAP recipient as a tenant over an employed person that's paying their own way. Some misguided people bang on about not having to worry about non-payment because the council is guaranteeing payment - absolute bollocks. The council pay only when they receive the money from the tenant and, surprisingly, sometimes the people receiving free money can be a bit lax and contrary when the time comes to pay for things. The council won't do a thing to help you when it happens and you'll be left to deal with a long, expensive and stressful ordeal.

Months/years of over-holding, mounting rent arrears and legal costs and then the costs to repair the inevitably destroyed property. It's an absolute minefield for landlords, playing Russian Roulette with a major asset like a house/apartment. In this market it's entirely possible to get a tenant that works full-time, understands the value of money and respects other peoples property.

Saudades · 08-01-2020 11:04pm

PrettyBoy wrote: »

There's no benefit to having a HAP recipient as a tenant over an employed person that's paying their own way.

Landlords who rent to tenants in receipt of social housing supports like HAP may avail of increased tax relief - allowing property owners to claim 100% relief on their mortgage interest, as an expense against rental income.

http://hap.ie/landlords/whyhap/

circular flexing · 08-01-2020 11:40pm

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Have two rental properties that I rent out myself (no letting agent or management company) so I meet potential tenants myself and have had to show the house to some HAP recipients at viewings. I would never consider letting a property out to someone that's not paying the rent themselves and is relying on a council to do it for them.

There's no benefit to having a HAP recipient as a tenant over an employed person that's paying their own way. Some misguided people bang on about not having to worry about non-payment because the council is guaranteeing payment - absolute bollocks. The council pay only when they receive the money from the tenant and, surprisingly, sometimes the people receiving free money can be a bit lax and contrary when the time comes to pay for things. The council won't do a thing to help you when it happens and you'll be left to deal with a long, expensive and stressful ordeal.

Months/years of over-holding, mounting rent arrears and legal costs and then the costs to repair the inevitably destroyed property. It's an absolute minefield for landlords, playing Russian Roulette with a major asset like a house/apartment. In this market it's entirely possible to get a tenant that works full-time, understands the value of money and respects other peoples property.

Yes because no employed person has ever thrashed a house ever. :rolleyes:

Renting out a house is a risk not matter who you rent to, maybe renting to HAP is riskier. I would say the sheer volume of people getting HAP means they can't all be bad, which btw includes many working people now. I had HAP tenants for a couple of year and it was fine. House was left in good condition and they left of their own accord.

PrettyBoy · 09-01-2020 12:05am

circular flexing wrote: »

Yes because no employed person has ever thrashed a house ever. :rolleyes:

Not saying that at all. I completely agree that there is a risk no matter who you let live in your house, but there are ways to mitigate that risk, and taking on people that are paying with their own way is one of them. Taking on HAP tenants is a massive gamble, and far less likely to pay off than going with someone that's paying their own rent in full. I know some people in receipt of HAP are working but in my experience (in general, not just with tenants) is that people that pay for their own things with money they've earned generally respect them. People that have things given to them for free (or very close to it) very often don't.

tvjunki · 09-01-2020 11:55am

Saudades wrote: »

Landlords who rent to tenants in receipt of social housing supports like HAP may avail of increased tax relief - allowing property owners to claim 100% relief on their mortgage interest, as an expense against rental income.

http://hap.ie/landlords/whyhap/

The 100% relief on mortgage interest applies to all lettings now.

KiloDelta · 09-01-2020 4:28pm

emeldc wrote: »

Unless the rules have changed the rent is paid in arrears, hence the last wed in the month. They don’t pay a deposit or at least they didn’t. Why didn’t you ask the tenant for a deposit assuming they’re already in. Were you that stuck for a tenant that you chose someone on SW or without a full time job. If they have paid you 3 months rent in advance, good for you I say. Although I doubt it.

Thank you all for your replies. Some good information being given.

I did ask for a deposit from Jan 1st when the tenancy started but the tenant asked if we could wait until Jan 13th as this is when HAP would pay it for her, so that is the reason for that.

I personally know a relation to the tenant and felt that this particular tenant would not screw us over - but like the points have been raised above - full employment or SW recipient - nothing guarantees payment or good care of the home. A person on €75k p.a could lose their job tomorrow and be a SW recipient themselves.

For the likes of purchasing an expense such as kettle, toaster, painting, bathroom etc etc - is all of the cost written off against your tax liability on the income?

Eg - tax on the rental income €7000pa

Washing machine bought @ €300

New liability €6700????

Excuse my naivety!

Saudades · 09-01-2020 5:43pm

Fair play and my total respect to you for accepting homeless HAP tenants.
It appears that a lot of landlords reject HAP applicants as they either don't understand what it is, or they think it's associated with social welfareites on the dole, or they don't want the hassle of the extra few sheets of A4 paperwork.

circular flexing · 09-01-2020 5:47pm

KiloDelta wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies. Some good information being given.

I did ask for a deposit from Jan 1st when the tenancy started but the tenant asked if we could wait until Jan 13th as this is when HAP would pay it for her, so that is the reason for that.

I personally know a relation to the tenant and felt that this particular tenant would not screw us over - but like the points have been raised above - full employment or SW recipient - nothing guarantees payment or good care of the home. A person on €75k p.a could lose their job tomorrow and be a SW recipient themselves.

For the likes of purchasing an expense such as kettle, toaster, painting, bathroom etc etc - is all of the cost written off against your tax liability on the income?

Eg - tax on the rental income €7000pa

Washing machine bought @ €300

New liability €6700????

Excuse my naivety!

Revenue have a guide for what can and cannot be written off as an expense

https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/rental-income/irish-rental-income/what-expenses-are-allowed.aspx

In the case of white goods, you can write the cost of them off over 8 years.

Old diesel · 09-01-2020 6:12pm

Saudades wrote: »

Fair play and my total respect to you for accepting homeless HAP tenants.
It appears that a lot of landlords reject HAP applicants as they either don't understand what it is, or they think it's associated with social welfareites on the dole, or they don't want the hassle of the extra few sheets of A4 paperwork.

There is also concern that HAP inspections re standards are more strict then if you were letting to a non HAP tenant.

But I don't think anyone has ever fully got to the bottom of the issue.

People have had the inspector demand big work to be done like drilling holes in every room for ventilation.

What isnt clear is what the same inspector would do different if non HAP.

Because up to now most reported inspections are HAP.

If a landlord thinks he could be asked to spend 30 grand on work the Landlord thinks isnt necessary and cant afford anyway.

Then he will try and avoid HAP.

Could be as simple as he simply not having the cash for 30 k of unnecessary (to him) work.

And then the people in charge of the wider HAP system are a pain. So if the Tenant stops paying their share then it gets messy.

Especially as you get paid by HAP in arrears - so January's rent is at the end of January rather then at start of month.

More work is needed to make HAP more friendly to landlords. Should be scope to deliver a better financial business offer to Landlords taking up HAP and STILL be cheaper then putting the tenant and their family up in a hotel.

the_syco · 09-01-2020 9:00pm

Saudades wrote: »

or they don't want the hassle of the extra few sheets of A4 paperwork.

Your building must confirm to the standards of HAP. Said standards are not published. No-one knows what they are. No-one knows if their building is up to scratch. So if you take HAP, you may have to spend a few thousand to bring it up to whatever standard happens to be happening at that time. Failure to do so gets the LL a fine. Once the LL lets the HAP tenant in, I can't see any way that the LL can get rid of them should the house fail the inspection whereby the LL does not get a fine.

The LL won't make the money they spend back, as HAP is usually under market rate.

tvjunki · 09-01-2020 11:05pm

KiloDelta wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies. Some good information being given.

I did ask for a deposit from Jan 1st when the tenancy started but the tenant asked if we could wait until Jan 13th as this is when HAP would pay it for her, so that is the reason for that.

I personally know a relation to the tenant and felt that this particular tenant would not screw us over - but like the points have been raised above - full employment or SW recipient - nothing guarantees payment or good care of the home. A person on €75k p.a could lose their job tomorrow and be a SW recipient themselves.

For the likes of purchasing an expense such as kettle, toaster, painting, bathroom etc etc - is all of the cost written off against your tax liability on the income?

Eg - tax on the rental income €7000pa

Washing machine bought @ €300

New liability €6700????

Excuse my naivety!

Pre letting expenses are not allowed. Keep those costs and receipts to when you sell the house and offset against sale. E.g refurbishment painting. What you buy things or do maintenance they can be used to reduce your tax bill.
Do not put in kettles toasters as they will not last long and the tenant should have them anyway. Years ago you had to provide cutlery,plates and the likes but not anymore.
Have a look at the rtb site to see what you need to provide.

Pay for an accountant to do your first tax bill so you do not mess up. Maybe meet one now so you know what your allowed to reduce your tax bill.
Washing machine fridge you write of over 8 years not just written off in the first year.

You may know a tenant though a friend but they can go rogue. As soon as the tenant is late sent 14days notice and then 30day notice of termination for non payment of rent. You can give a tenant notice within the first 6months for no reason so any late or non payment would be a warning for future.

When the tenant moves in make sure you take the utlities off your name and moved into theirs. Make sure the tenant knows the cannot put in a key meter for energy as they are costly to remove. Gas board charged me 220to remove when the gas board put it in for non payment of the gas bill and I knew nothing about it until she left.

Maybe put up a post on an advice for a new landlord....many will say don't do it. New Legislation is coming down the line so definately do your research.

emeldc · 09-01-2020 11:52pm

Gas board charged me 220to remove when the gas board put it in for non payment of the gas bill and I knew nothing about it until she left.

Prepay power tried to charge me for the removal of a meter that a tenant put in. I asked them for a copy of the letter that I gave them allowing permission for it to be fitted in the first place. They removed it then no problem

Irish_peppa · 10-01-2020 10:03am

I did this once not sure the exact name of scheme i own my own house and was renting to a guy who lost his job, I suggested he go to SW office and ask about rental allowance. It worked out as roughly 75% of what he paid me allready the SW would pay the the bulk he would make up the balance.
In any event filled out all forms, all good . weeks passed and no sign of money at all. Each week i would ask have you heard from SW, nope they are so slow. After 2 months . Yes im a fool for letting it go so long i was told there would be a back payment if any rent due after documents submitted so i didnt really mind.
Getting frustrated unbeknown to the lodger i rang the SW office. he had been collecting the cheques himself or whatever way he was getting the payment. I immediatly told him to leave. so that soured me slightly to such schemes. PS this was about 10 years ago so procedures might have changed by now

Old diesel · 10-01-2020 10:29am

the_syco wrote: »

Your building must confirm to the standards of HAP. Said standards are not published. No-one knows what they are. No-one knows if their building is up to scratch. So if you take HAP, you may have to spend a few thousand to bring it up to whatever standard happens to be happening at that time. Failure to do so gets the LL a fine. Once the LL lets the HAP tenant in, I can't see any way that the LL can get rid of them should the house fail the inspection whereby the LL does not get a fine.

The LL won't make the money they spend back, as HAP is usually under market rate.

If HAP stop the payment over "failure to fix the issues that failed HAP inspection".

Can you not terminate for non payment of rent......

If the HAP tenant somehow keeps paying then no reason to get rid of them right?????

the_syco · 10-01-2020 8:20pm

Old diesel wrote: »

If HAP stop the payment over "failure to fix the issues that failed HAP inspection".

Can you not terminate for non payment of rent......

If the HAP tenant somehow keeps paying then no reason to get rid of them right?????

By "keeps paying", do you mean the percentage that they pay the CC, or the full 100% of the rent? If the latter, great.

If HAP payment stops & the tenant is unable to pay you, you can start the eviction proceedings. As the tenant may not have anywhere to go, you'll need to go down the route of the 14 days notice, followed by the 28 days notice, and if the tenant decides not to go, you'll need to start the PTRB eviction process.

tvjunki · 10-01-2020 8:52pm

emeldc wrote: »

Prepay power tried to charge me for the removal of a meter that a tenant put in. I asked them for a copy of the letter that I gave them allowing permission for it to be fitted in the first place. They removed it then no problem

There was a guy here that have me advice in regards to prepay power as he used to work for them. Said the same as you. I had no contract with prepay so want their property out of mine. I did not have to pay. The same with electric ireland. Bord Gas do charge.
Prepay damaged the walls on removal of the box and just cut cables to the box.

By the way both instances the tenants were on Rent Allowance and we're not given permission to install.
Never had this issue with private tenants.

Old diesel · 10-01-2020 11:42pm

the_syco wrote: »

By "keeps paying", do you mean the percentage that they pay the CC, or the full 100% of the rent? If the latter, great.

If HAP payment stops & the tenant is unable to pay you, you can start the eviction proceedings. As the tenant may not have anywhere to go, you'll need to go down the route of the 14 days notice, followed by the 28 days notice, and if the tenant decides not to go, you'll need to start the PTRB eviction process.

I meant full rent.

Clearly if they only pay "pay part rent" then they are building up arrears.

And if they are simply paying the council then they are paying the landlord nothing so it's pretty much a not paying rent situation.

HAP scheme - pros and cons for a landlord?

Comments